Pure BEV Dogma

[Realist]

Wikipedia Quote on the Fisker:

"The Fisker Karma is an electric vehicle, with on-board range extender, luxury sports sedan that was produced by Fisker Automotive between 2011 and 2012. The vehicle is not a hybrid since the internal combustion engine, ICE, does not provide propulsion power to the drive wheels."

And regarding envionmental "costs":

As long as new nuclear powerplants are being built we are a long way of 100% renewable sources. In Europe alone more than 40 new nuclear plant will be added to the grid offer the next 10 years.

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One comment on Fisker vs. Volt.

The Volts petrol engine is used as a range extender most of the time. It's got a mechanical clutch as well so it can transfer power directly to the wheels whereas the Karma uses another electric generetor for that. Basically the Volt and the Karma have much more in common than the i8 with the Karma.

 

[JRP3]

Nuclear is a carbon free power source.

Also, this is incorrect:

The vehicle is not a hybrid since the internal combustion engine, ICE, does not provide propulsion power to the drive wheels.

It is indeed a hybrid, specifically a series hybrid.

 

[Yggdrasill]

The Volt, Karma, i8 and the Prius plug-in are all plug-in hybrids, and series hybrids. All four can also to some extent act as parallel hybrids. The BMW i3 with REX is a plug-in hybrid and series hybrid, but has no parallel hybrid functionality.

 

[donauker]

The Volt, Karma, i8 and the Prius plug-in are all plug-in hybrids, and series hybrids. All four can also to some extent act as parallel hybrids. The BMW i3 with REX is a plug-in hybrid and series hybrid, but has no parallel hybrid functionality.

Sorry, but the Karma has absolutely no ability to work as a parallel hybrid.

 

[VolkerP]

 

[Yggdrasill]

Sorry, but the Karma has absolutely no ability to work as a parallel hybrid.

In sport mode, the gas engine will send power to the wheels. This is done through a generator and motor, yes, but I would consider that entirely irrelevant.

 

[WarpedOne]

It is not irrelevant - it is the sole distinction between serial/parallel thing.

Serial hybrid can only feed the battery/motor with electricity.
Parallel haybrid directly drives the wheels without converting power into electricity.

Mechanical link between ICE and wheels = parallel hybrid
Only electrical link between ICE and wheels = serial hybrid
Those who can do both are both, perhaps even simultaneously.

 

[Yggdrasill]

Series hybrid: Battery powers the wheels until the battery is depleted, then engine powers the wheels.
Parallel hybrid: Both engine and battery powers the wheels, depending on circumstances.

I know the definition with a mechanical linkage is in use, but my definition is also in use. As both are in common use they are equally valid.

 

[donauker]

Series hybrid: Battery powers the wheels until the battery is depleted, then engine powers the wheels.
Parallel hybrid: Both engine and battery powers the wheels, depending on circumstances.

I know the definition with a mechanical linkage is in use, but my definition is also in use. As both are in common use they are equally valid.

Care to share a source link to Your definition?

By your definition there can be no series hybrid unless the battery is disconnected after it is initially depleted since any excess generated or regen electricity will charge the battery and will again be utilized in what you define as parallel mode.

 

[Takumi]

Care to share a source link to Your definition?

By your definition there can be no series hybrid unless the battery is disconnected after it is initially depleted since any excess generated or regen electricity will charge the battery and will again be utilized in what you define as parallel mode.

Serial hybrid
Parallel hybrid

 

[gnelson]

Wikipedia Quote on the Fisker:

"The Fisker Karma is an electric vehicle, with on-board range extender, luxury sports sedan that was produced by Fisker Automotive between 2011 and 2012. The vehicle is not a hybrid since the internal combustion engine, ICE, does not provide propulsion power to the drive wheels."

And regarding envionmental "costs":

As long as new nuclear powerplants are being built we are a long way of 100% renewable sources. In Europe alone more than 40 new nuclear plant will be added to the grid offer the next 10 years.

- - - Updated - - -

One comment on Fisker vs. Volt.

The Volts petrol engine is used as a range extender most of the time. It's got a mechanical clutch as well so it can transfer power directly to the wheels whereas the Karma uses another electric generetor for that. Basically the Volt and the Karma have much more in common than the i8 with the Karma.

The Volt also can obtain supplemental power form the motor generator.

 

[donauker]

Serial hybrid
Parallel hybrid

I agree fully with those definitions. The Karma matches exactly the Series Hybrid definition and has no parallel hybrid capability.

 

[JRP3]

Series hybrid: Battery powers the wheels until the battery is depleted, then engine powers the wheels.
Parallel hybrid: Both engine and battery powers the wheels, depending on circumstances.

I know the definition with a mechanical linkage is in use, but my definition is also in use. As both are in common use they are equally valid.

Not really. Series hybrid means no physical connection between ICE and drive wheels, parallel hybrid means there is a physical connection between the ICE and drive wheels.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I will accept the IRS definition for a qualified electric vehicle and ignore those who dogmatically insist that a Chevrolet Volt is not an Electric Vehicle. The IRS will allow me a $15000 tax credit for tax year 2013 for the purchase of my 2014 Volt and my 2013 Tesla Model S P85+.

Qualified Plug-in Electric Drive Motor Vehicle
This is a new vehicle with at least four wheels that:
• Is propelled to a significant extent by an electric motor
that draws electricity from a battery that has a capacity of
not less than 4 kilowatt hours and is capable of being
recharged from an external source of electricity, and
• Has a gross vehicle weight of less than 14,000 pounds.

Keep in mind the Prius Plug-in qualifies under the same definition. The only reason it qualifies for only the minimum $2500 amount is because the credit is scaled by kWh and the Prius qualifies only for the lowest amount (the 4kWh bracket). The Volt qualifies for the max amount (16kWh) and this was after heavy lobbying by GM (it's not a coincidence that the max cut off is at 16kWh and the Volt having a 16kWh capacity).

For vehicles acquired after December 31, 2009, the credit is equal to $2,500 plus, for a vehicle which draws propulsion energy from a battery with at least 5 kilowatt hours of capacity, $417, plus an additional $417 for each kilowatt hour of battery capacity in excess of 5 kilowatt hours. The total amount of the credit allowed for a vehicle is limited to $7,500.

http://www.irs.gov/Businesses/Plug-In-Electric-Vehicle-Credit-(IRC-30-and-IRC-30D)

This is not a definition for EV (Electric car) but rather for plug-ins in general, so by no means is the IRS saying the Volt is an electric car!

 

[tigerade]

A nice infographic showing the surge in global EV sales. It's in French, but it's still pretty easy to understand.

Sales of Electric Vehicles Are Soaring - Infographic

 

[green1]

I own TWO Volt's I don't do anything different when planning a trip that I haven't done in 50 years. I check the weather and traffic and go.

To be fair... you say you own two Volts, the Volt isn't an EV, it's a hybrid. As such you can just ignore the electric part of it for a long trip and fill up at gas stations like normal. I would HOPE driving a gas powered Volt wouldn't change your travel choices vs driving a gas powered anything else...

 

[JRP3]

So any mention of the hybrid nature of the Volt gets moved to the "Dogma" thread? How is the point that the Volt can run on gasoline not a valid point to make? It's obviously an important enough feature that GM decided to include it.

 

[Doug_G]

Categorically stating, "the Volt isn't an EV, it's a hybrid" was bound to cause a derailed thread. That argument belongs here.

If he had said something like, "well the use case of a plug-in hybrid or EREV is going to be different from a pure electric" that might have started a fruitful conversation in the original thread. Indeed, I know people who do change their driving habits so they can maximize electric driving in their Volt.

 

[brianman]

I'm with JRP3 on this one, Doug_G. I think the moderator sensitivity meter was too high in this case.

It's not a huge deal in this case but it seems we're starting to turn members into politicians: avoid any potential hot areas by flagging half the dictionary as verboten.

 

[TomServo]

To be fair... you say you own two Volts, the Volt isn't an EV, it's a hybrid. As such you can just ignore the electric part of it for a long trip and fill up at gas stations like normal. I would HOPE driving a gas powered Volt wouldn't change your travel choices vs driving a gas powered anything else...

To be honest I really don't care what it's called, seems petty to me, it's the end state that should matter, as a veteran of the first Gulf War and with a son and daughter both serving in our USAF I don't want another drop of blood shed over OIL. To me the Volt is a bridge vehicle until the "electric highway" matures. Folks shouldn'r get all up tight over names, just results.