Question about level 1 charging

[yellowmonky]

Hi all,

I'm considering buying a tesla and I live in a condo building with potential access to level one charging. I'm going to talk to my management company about using the outlet by my parking spot, but before I do that I want to clarify one detail...

My parking spot is in the bottom of an underground parking structure with no access to network/wifi. If I park my car and plug it in the outlet, can I control when the car charges without use of the Tesla app? I want to tell the management company that I will set the car to only charge during the lowest electricity hours, but I understand that without the Tesla app I might be limited to what I can control. I assume I can set a charging window in my car and it will only charge during that window, and plugging it in underground will be fine. I just won't be able to review the charging state of my car through the mobile app.

Thanks

 

[Supcom]

Hi all,

I'm considering buying a tesla and I live in a condo building with potential access to level one charging. I'm going to talk to my management company about using the outlet by my parking spot, but before I do that I want to clarify one detail...

My parking spot is in the bottom of an underground parking structure with no access to network/wifi. If I park my car and plug it in the outlet, can I control when the car charges without use of the Tesla app? I want to tell the management company that I will set the car to only charge during the lowest electricity hours, but I understand that without the Tesla app I might be limited to what I can control. I assume I can set a charging window in my car and it will only charge during that window, and plugging it in underground will be fine. I just won't be able to review the charging state of my car through the mobile app.

Thanks

You can set your charging schedule using the car's touchscreen.

 

[ATPMSD]

Level 1 is 120v, assuming a 15a circuit this comes to just 1.1 kWh (120v * 12a maximum draw due to 80% rule * 80% efficiency). So given 12-hours that is 13.2 kWh total, assuming nothing else is running. This is only practical for a car that is rarely driven or only driven short distances.

You can tell the car when to “start” charging, such as 10 pm, but to tell it when to stop you will need to set the SOC max limit as required. You can use Schedule departure to tell it when to stop, but given the extremely slow charge rate the car will likely start to charge anytime you plug in.

See if you can work with the condo to install an L2 charging system, preferably a Tesla wall connector or at least a NEMA 14-50 outlet.

 

[Eric33432]

Hi all,

I'm considering buying a tesla and I live in a condo building with potential access to level one charging. I'm going to talk to my management company about using the outlet by my parking spot, but before I do that I want to clarify one detail...

My parking spot is in the bottom of an underground parking structure with no access to network/wifi. If I park my car and plug it in the outlet, can I control when the car charges without use of the Tesla app? I want to tell the management company that I will set the car to only charge during the lowest electricity hours, but I understand that without the Tesla app I might be limited to what I can control. I assume I can set a charging window in my car and it will only charge during that window, and plugging it in underground will be fine. I just won't be able to review the charging state of my car through the mobile app.

Thanks

As said above, you can set charging start time, OR charging departure time, using the screen in the car, no WiFi required, but that will not keep the car from charging during peak electricity rates, especially when you are Level 1 charging, which usually requires very long charging time, since you only recover about 3 miles of driving an hour.

And I would be damn sure your condo board will let you charge. Very likely some Karen or Ken will be jealous and complain to the board you are getting free electricity. "That's for Damn Sure".

Maybe you offer to reimburse the cost of the energy you consume?

Or some over zealous board member will think your EV will catch on fire.

If they do allow you to charge, be sure that outlet is not on a circuit where it is being used elsewhere. And if it is a NEMA 5-20, that is not being used elsewhere, you can get the 5-20 adapter cable and charge at 16 amps, if it is OK with the condo board.

Good luck!

 

[RTPEV]

Your understanding is correct in that you will be able to set the car to charge during a window without network connectivity, and you will not be able to check on or otherwise control it using the app if the car cannot get a cell signal.

I'll also agree with @ATPMSD that the car may not be able to comply with that window if you have it set with a charge limit such that it would need longer than that window to achieve the desired charge limit.

However, I'd temper the comment that it's only practical for a car that is rarely driven or only driven short distances. Depending on what car you get, and what your off-peak hours are, you may be just fine. My Model 3 can get 4-5 miles of range added per hour from a 120V outlet. Just to use an example, if off-peak is 9pm to 6am, that is 9 hours of charging available, meaning you could replenish 40 or so miles of driving per day, which may be sufficient. And even if you drive close to or slightly over that amount each day, if weekends are off-peak, you can expect to replenish about 100 miles each day on the weekend, or 200 miles (minus any time and miles you would be using the car on the weekend). Supplementing this with an occasional public L2 or DC fast charge and this may be a workable solution for you.

And if your parking structure actually has 20A outlets (i.e. one of these with the horizontal tab):

you can get the appropriate mobile connector adapter and charge at 16A vs. 12A, giving you an extra 33% power.

Now I wouldn't want you to make a purchase based on the "hope" that it will work out--I would want to make sure that this kind of solution will actually work for you. So I would take a closer look at just when off-peak hours are and how much driving you do actually do during the week. And since you are from Toronto, I would also caution you that in the winter, the car may be (probably will be) pulling power for much of the time it is plugged in to keep the battery warm. And charging will be much slower (as a good chunk of the power will go towards warming the battery).

 

[ATPMSD]

It should also be noted that the outlet you plan to use must be dedicated e.g. not supplying power to anything else, otherwise you will likely trip the breaker. If it is dedicated, and if the board is willing, you can convert the outlet to 240v by making it a 6-15 (for 15a) or 6-20 (for 20a) outlet. This is fairly easy to do and it will more than double what you get from a 120v circuit since the efficiency goes from about 80% to 90-95%!

 

[yellowmonky]

I appreciate the feedback. This is just a temporary solution until level two charging is ready. I might have to make do with offsite chargers until then.

 

[theflyer]

Don't let others get you down about L1 charging. Unless you're driving 100 miles a day, you can make it work. You can get about 40 miles per night.

We've been using an L1 for over ten years. It isn't glamorous, and it isn't the ideal option, but it works. Our outlet is on a shared circuit, but we've only tripped the breaker a few times. After determining the average all-in price the Association pays for electricity and installing a cheap meter, we pay for the electricity consumed quarterly. The Association accommodates four EVs in this manner.

I describe how we've made it work at the following post.

How much should the HOA charge? (I'm the HOA president)

HOA’s - where there is one building sharing resources - need to get ahead of the curve here. Wake up and realize this is going to become a problem if you don’t have a plan in place for existing and new residents. EVs are going to continue to become more common. Why hasn’t the HOA considered EV...

teslamotorsclub.com

 

[Eric33432]

Don't let others get you down about L1 charging. Unless you're driving 100 miles a day, you can make it work. You can get about 40 miles per night.

We've been using an L1 for over ten years. It isn't glamorous, and it isn't the ideal option, but it works. Our outlet is on a shared circuit, but we've only tripped the breaker a few times. After determining the average all-in price the Association pays for electricity and installing a cheap meter, we pay for the electricity consumed quarterly. The Association accommodates four EVs in this manner.

I describe how we've made it work at the following post.

How much should the HOA charge? (I'm the HOA president)

HOA’s - where there is one building sharing resources - need to get ahead of the curve here. Wake up and realize this is going to become a problem if you don’t have a plan in place for existing and new residents. EVs are going to continue to become more common. Why hasn’t the HOA considered EV...

teslamotorsclub.com

True, but realize you will very likely not be able to charge only during off peak times.

 

[theflyer]

True, but realize you will very likely not be able to charge only during off peak times.

It all depends on his daily commute.

 

[Eric33432]

It all depends on his daily commute.

And whatever else he needs/wants to drive. If I could only go to work I would not be happy.

 

[mborkow]

Since you live in a condo and have to live by someone else’s rules, I would figure out your charging situation before getting the car. Personally, I cannot imagine having an EV w/o L2 charging available, but if I knew I could plug into L1 for 10 hours a night and my commute was 30 - 40 miles a day that might be manageable…but not ideal.

 

[father_of_6]

And since you are from Toronto, I would also caution you that in the winter, the car may be (probably will be) pulling power for much of the time it is plugged in to keep the battery warm. And charging will be much slower (as a good chunk of the power will go towards warming the battery).

Don't let others get you down about L1 charging. Unless you're driving 100 miles a day, you can make it work. You can get about 40 miles per night.

40 Tesla miles is not necessarily (and most likely isn't) 40 actual miles. You're going to use a LOT of the energy to heat the cabin in winter.

The comment from @RTPEV is correct but actually optimistic. In the Winter, a 15 or 20 amp circuit might not even be enough to warm the battery to accept a charge at the coldest Toronto temps. On the coldest days, 8 hours of 120v could actually end in a net loss.

You're going to need L2 charging (240v) and/or SuperChargers.

I spent my first 6 months of ownership without home charging, and was okay with supercharging because the car was great and the supercharger was along my commute.

Now that I have home charging, I could never go back.

My recommendation is ... the car is great but only get it if you know you can obtain L2 charging in the foreseeable future. You don't want to spend 3 or 4 hours a week charging at superchargers in the Winter. Also some of the Toronto SuperChargers are in pay-to-park lots.

Good luck!

 

[theflyer]

40 Tesla miles is not necessarily (and most likely isn't) 40 actual miles. You're going to use a LOT of the energy to heat the cabin in winter.

The comment from @RTPEV is correct but actually optimistic. In the Winter, a 15 or 20 amp circuit might not even be enough to warm the battery to accept a charge at the coldest Toronto temps. On the coldest days, 8 hours of 120v could actually end in a net loss.

You're going to need L2 charging (240v) and/or SuperChargers.

I spent my first 6 months of ownership without home charging, and was okay with supercharging because the car was great and the supercharger was along my commute.

Now that I have home charging, I could never go back.

My recommendation is ... the car is great but only get it if you know you can obtain L2 charging in the foreseeable future. You don't want to spend 3 or 4 hours a week charging at superchargers in the Winter. Also some of the Toronto SuperChargers are in pay-to-park lots.

Good luck!

I'm am working hard to install L2 charging at my association because L1 is inot deal. I'm just surprised by how much commenters on this thread are trying to talk this guy out of his purchase because he might have to use L1 for awhile. He said that there is L3 charging reasonably close if he needs it.

 

[Eric33432]

I'm am working hard to install L2 charging at my association because L1 is inot deal. I'm just surprised by how much commenters on this thread are trying to talk this guy out of his purchase because he might have to use L1 for awhile. He said that there is L3 charging reasonably close if he needs it.

Since you are actually working on this, I would be interested to hear how you are going about this? Questions I have are:

Can you use the existing electrical capacity?
Will you use load management to use electrical capacity as efficiently as possible?
What L2 equipment are you proposing?
Who will pay to install the L2 charging wiring and equipment?
How will the association handle billing?

Any other information will also be appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[Supcom]

I'm am working hard to install L2 charging at my association because L1 is inot deal. I'm just surprised by how much commenters on this thread are trying to talk this guy out of his purchase because he might have to use L1 for awhile. He said that there is L3 charging reasonably close if he needs it.

He also stated that he parks on the bottom level of an underground parking garage. Presumably, it not get as cold as parking on the street, so battery heating may not be a big factor.

He didn't disclose the length of his commute, which would be a key factor in whether L1 will serve his daily needs.

 

[father_of_6]

I'm am working hard to install L2 charging at my association because L1 is not ideal.

he might have to use L1 for awhile.

I think we're actually in agreement. If he has to use L1 for "a while" but knows that there's a path to home L2 charging, get the car.

If L2 home charging can't happen, I think it's important the potential new owner understands what they're getting themselves into. Personally, I wouldn't drive an EV long-term without L2 charging at home (and I'm an EV enthusiast).

Sure, the car is great and the honeymoon phase will help us overlook the added hassle for a time, but eventually that'll wear thin... and you'll be stuck with an expensive car that's a hassle to charge.

I wouldn't buy an ICE vehicle with a one gallon gas tank where the closest gas station is 7 miles away. Nor would I recommend owning an EV without L2 charging.

Only in very specific circumstances can L1 charging be sufficient. Warm climate and a short commute... that's about it.

 

[Rocky_H]

I'm just surprised by how much commenters on this thread are trying to talk this guy out of his purchase because he might have to use L1 for awhile.

Because it's TORONTO!
I mean, yeah, I was starting to think this for a while in the first several comments before I noticed OP's location. There are probably going to be a few months of the year where the car literally just won't charge.

Only in very specific circumstances can L1 charging be sufficient. Warm climate and a short commute... that's about it.

Yes, the at home convenience is at least something, but I wouldn't consider that much of a usable option in the outdoors in Canada, except for the warm half of the year.

 

[theflyer]

Because it's TORONTO!
I mean, yeah, I was starting to think this for a while in the first several comments before I noticed OP's location. There are probably going to be a few months of the year where the car literally just won't charge.


Yes, the at home convenience is at least something, but I wouldn't consider that much of a usable option in the outdoors in Canada, except for the warm half of the year.

Toronto is not that cold. It is not as far north as many people suspect. Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, Burlington, VT, Bangor, ME, and Spokane are all at higher latitudes.

L1, Superchargers, and DCFC is all I've ever had since we bought our first PHEV in 2013 and my first Tesla in 2016. When I visit my dad near Minneapolis in December and January, all I had for the first five years was L1 in his garage and a 50kw DCFC (Last year we added a NEMA 14-50 outlet at his house). It isn't always fun, but it can be done. The OP is in a garage, limiting how cold the car will get.

 

[Tronguy]

Hi all,

I'm considering buying a tesla and I live in a condo building with potential access to level one charging. I'm going to talk to my management company about using the outlet by my parking spot, but before I do that I want to clarify one detail...

My parking spot is in the bottom of an underground parking structure with no access to network/wifi. If I park my car and plug it in the outlet, can I control when the car charges without use of the Tesla app? I want to tell the management company that I will set the car to only charge during the lowest electricity hours, but I understand that without the Tesla app I might be limited to what I can control. I assume I can set a charging window in my car and it will only charge during that window, and plugging it in underground will be fine. I just won't be able to review the charging state of my car through the mobile app.

Thanks

Um. Power in is 12A@120V which is 1.44 kW. I rather doubt that 80% “efficiency” number from the previous poster, though.

A Model 3 or Model Y will get 4.5 or 5 miles of charge per hour from that. If you sleep for 8 hours you’ll get 35 or 40 miles of charge. Depending upon your commute, that may or may not be sufficient. If there’s a Supercharger around, you can use that to top off. Finally, places like Whole Foods and shopping plazas often (but not always) have L2 chargers which go, depending upon how much current/voltage they’ve got, at 20 or 40 miles of charge an hour. Prices for these latter are often less than Superchargers; these are handy for grocery trips.

Finally, take a close look at those outlets in the garage. If the outlets have a “cross” where one of the blades on a normal socket would be, you’ve won a minor lottery and have a 20A socket. That means that with the adapter for a NEMA5-20 on the Tesla Mobile Connector you’ll get 16A @ 120V or 1.92kW and about 6 miles of charge per hour, not to be sneezed at.

Of course, your best bet might be to convince management to install a NEMA 240VAC socket at 40A or higher, perhaps greasing the skids by offering to pay for it. That would give you 240VAC@32A, about 30+ miles of charge per hour, at which point you’d be able to stop worrying. Having them put a meter and a lockout so that you end up being the only one paying, or just going for a Wall Connector with a NACS connector that can measure the energy delivered might be a better bet.

Note that NACS has become the universal standard for charging cars going forward, so it’s likely that this would be a permanent enhancement to the property, even after you leave, and a possible selling point to the landlord.