Question on new range

[Frick]

This is getting interesting. I ordered the last week of January and mine arrived this past week with a delivery date of Saturday. I detailed above how that went, but since our day was kind of planned around the pickup yesterday I went ahead and dropped by the store later in the day and asked if I could see the car anyway. They pulled it into the garage for me (verified VIN), but I wasn't allowed to drive it and it hadn't been cleaned up yet. It definitely had the silver wheels that I want on it, so I'm going to be quite upset if they try to tell me after this wait that they have to put the Tempest wheels on it for it to be considered a LR+ or something. The advisor there seemed to think that if we didn't want the Tempest wheels (which they also haven't seen in person yet) that it's possible they'll get the update done sometime before the March 7th date everyone is quoting and will set up a new delivery date ASAP. They suspected it's just a matter of which "batch" of updates my car will fall into in order for it to be delivered. Then again, I think they're just as in the dark and trying to alleviate any concerns.

This seems like a very poorly communicated update process with very little known about what all is involved or why. I'm glad mine will be a LR+ on all paperwork if for nothing else than potential resale value down the line, but that seems to be the only upside to the confusion so far. The added range means less than the added efficiency or resale value to me - I don't have range anxiety.

 

[ucmndd]

It seems pretty clear to me these new "LR+" cars were tested by the EPA with the fugly wheels on them.

Fugly wheels were delayed in manufacturing for one reason or another (because Tesla), but instead of stopping the production line they put slipstreams on them and sent them out the door to be retrofitted before delivery.

If this is the case, and it seems increasingly likely so, Tesla isn't gonna give you the car with the slipstreams on it under any circumstance. I suppose if you pitch a big enough of a fit they might "leave the spare slipstreams in the trunk on accident" or something similar - but the car will certainly be delivered with the fugly wheels.

 

[Frick]

Not to quote Twitter as gospel by any means, but that would make it nigh impossible for Elon's tweet to be true without effectively recalling vehicles to swap out perfectly good wheels:

All S/X cars made in recent months have actually been above stated EPA range. Will be unlocked soon for free via software update.​

Only thing I could think of there is if they had an even further split of having some vehicles with "unlocked" range but without the LR+ designation.

 

[mipmapped]

As mentioned somewhere else, the 390 range is probably a combination of firmware, hardware and the Tempest wheels. If you don't get the Tempest wheels, and have the latest hardware and firmware you will probably be South of 390 but still North of 373.

 

[ucmndd]

Not to quote Twitter as gospel by any means, but that would make it nigh impossible for Elon's tweet to be true without effectively recalling vehicles to swap out perfectly good wheels:

No, because all of those old vehicles aren't "Long Range Plus" models. They're just getting an after-the-fact OTA performance update that results in better range.

The new ones though, with the new model designation - they need to be sold as configured on their window sticker.

 

[Frick]

No, because all of those old vehicles aren't "Long Range Plus" models. They're just getting an after-the-fact OTA performance update that results in better range.

The new ones though, with the new model designation - they need to be sold as configured on their window sticker.

That would make sense, as much as I want the LR+ with the wheels currently sitting on my car. I'd only be upset if they force the Tempest wheels on me at additional time and expense to themselves while still giving the already-delivered-but-capable recent deliveries the same LR+ designation.

 

[tonybelding]

For whatever it's worth, I'm waiting on a non-inventory S and have not yet been assigned a VIN, so I'm assuming I should get all the newest—including the “fugly” new wheels, which I think actually look okay. (I mean, not quite as good as the previous ones, but acceptable.)

 

[Frick]

For whatever it's worth, I'm waiting on a non-inventory S and have not yet been assigned a VIN, so I'm assuming I should get all the newest—including the “fugly” new wheels, which I think actually look okay. (I mean, not quite as good as the previous ones, but acceptable.)

Yeah, as much as I'm bellyaching, I don't think the Tempest wheels are super awful deal breakers, but I do prefer the old wheels and that car is sitting at the store now. So yeah, partly preference, partly just impatient because I'm effectively blocked from taking delivery of the car I want because of an OTA update. If your car hasn't been built yet, I guarantee it'll come with the Tempest no matter what was on the page when you ordered.

 

[mrbulk]

At least these Tempest wheels, if they indeed turn out to be wheelcaps, can be swapped out less expensively after curb rash incidents, not to mention painting/wrapping them to match your car's paint or wrap.

 

[r1200gs4ok]

Of course it's all speculation, but my reading of Elon's comments, info in Tesla Range Table - Teslike.com especially about how EPA range stats are processed and the rules for what range manufacturers can quote etc, and also the fact that cars have generally kept getting small tweeks, is that Tesla have been slightly unnecessarily conservative in their range figures. In ideal temp / weather, new (Raven) cars have proven that they can and do exceed the previous EPA figures, so a software update to the range computer will start reflecting the new expected performance.

I expect there will be some specific hardware like the wheels that give a fixed benefit only to cars having them installed, but in real world it is very hard to spot a 2-3% range increase in the noise of normal battery degredation, temperature fluctuation, weather, tire pressure and wear, wheel size, individual driving style.... etc etc.

unless it is a software update to enable the full caacity of the 120kwh batteries they have been installing for a few months without telling anyone!!!

so your saying that some new Ravens after 1 Jan 20 may have 120kW batteries that may be updated later with OTA updates.......curious because I took delivery on 30 Jan 20......wonder if I have that 120kW battery.....Any way to look and tell

 

[Battpower]

so your saying that some new Ravens after 1 Jan 20 may have 120kW batteries that may be updated later with OTA updates.......curious because I took delivery on 30 Jan 20......wonder if I have that 120kW battery.....Any way to look and tell

just kidding!

Tesla have a habit of sneaking things then announcing later.... but 120kwh would give more than a few percent increase.

Sorry, its hard to tell when posts are kidding sometimes, I know. My bad.

 

[mswlogo]

This whole thing is bizarre.

 

[mswlogo]

so your saying that some new Ravens after 1 Jan 20 may have 120kW batteries that may be updated later with OTA updates.......curious because I took delivery on 30 Jan 20......wonder if I have that 120kW battery.....Any way to look and tell

There is no evidence that there is a 120kW battery. A 120kW battery would also raise range MUCH more than advertised.
Also why would they not add the 120kW battery to the Performance trim? Which needs it more and customers pay more for?

For all we know the new Rev Battery (F on Model X) has some cost savings in it and has nothing to do with the plus.

 

[Battpower]

From Teslike:

"How much range do Model 3 Aero Hubcaps add?

• 5.0% according to this test (173 vs 182 Wh/km, see 10:23 and 13:14 in the video)
• 4.4% according to this test (270 vs 282 Wh/mi)
• 3.2% according to this test (157 vs 162 Wh/km) and
• 2.6% according to this test (312 vs 320 km range)"

So surely the same could be expected from Model S fuglies? That could account for the whole amount of the range increase if that turned out to be the case, which would also make sense of LR+ only offered with the fuglies.

 

[Frick]

I'll concede that the wheels might be a big part of the added range of the LR+ according to EPA testing, but you can still order a LR+ without those wheels (or even with less efficient wheels). So all I'm asking is they not take away the wheels I wanted in the first place since they're already on there in my case!

 

[Battpower]

I'll concede that the wheels might be a big part of the added range of the LR+ according to EPA testing, but you can still order a LR+ without those wheels (or even with less efficient wheels). So all I'm asking is they not take away the wheels I wanted in the first place since they're already on there in my case!

Sure. Makes sense!

 

[Lasttoy]

If u trust a car salesmen, I'll buy u lunch. Mine was a jerk. I bought private because of him.

 

[r1200gs4ok]

just kidding!

Tesla have a habit of sneaking things then announcing later.... but 120kwh would give more than a few percent increase.

Sorry, its hard to tell when posts are kidding sometimes, I know. My bad.

no problem....we need some lighter moments

 

[Battpower]

If u trust a car salesmen, I'll buy u lunch. Mine was a jerk. I bought private because of him.

Generally, I would agree with you 100%, but trying to buy from Tesla without being able to talk to anyone actually drove me to the local Jaguar dealership..... just so I could be lied to personally!

Then it didn't feel quite so bad clicking on Tesla's 'Buy Now' button.

 

[IndyToronto]

From Teslike:

"How much range do Model 3 Aero Hubcaps add?

• 5.0% according to this test (173 vs 182 Wh/km, see 10:23 and 13:14 in the video)
• 4.4% according to this test (270 vs 282 Wh/mi)
• 3.2% according to this test (157 vs 162 Wh/km) and
• 2.6% according to this test (312 vs 320 km range)"

So surely the same could be expected from Model S fuglies? That could account for the whole amount of the range increase if that turned out to be the case, which would also make sense of LR+ only offered with the fuglies.

Wh/km or Wh/mi vary a lot more on driving style+speed than they do on wheels or tires. The only way to get the rated EPA numbers is if you drive below 95kph (60mph) at roughly constant speed on a flat highway with perfectly smooth asphalt over a long distance This also means accelerate slowly. In other words, you have to drive in a really boring way for a long time to get higher range. I can easily waste 50%+ of the optimal range by driving in a fun way that keeps me awake.