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Racism allegation and discussion (out of MA)

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I think they're just recycling that old news now because of this:

https://jalopnik.com/gm-workers-hung-whites-only-bathroom-signs-and-nooses-a-1830755166

Tesla has never - not once - been found in court to have engaged in any sort of racist behavior. And despite this little fact:

settled.png


.... aka, no photos or recordings for the vast majority of the claims in an era where almost bloody everyone has a camera on them at all times. By contrast, GM has acknowledged the nooses. And, obviously, there were pictures.

d9646436-996e-40db-a020-9d15d58349cc-noose.jpg


But rather than reporting on what has been confirmed to be happening at GM in a lawsuit that was just filed (new news), they're instead recycling a year-old lawsuit against Tesla in a long, dramatic article with literally no evidence backing up the claims, except one case where the accuser had admitted to using the exact same language that he had been accusing other coworkers of using, and one case involving a contractor who was suspended without pay.

I'll repeat that Tesla has never - not once - been found in court to have engaged in discriminatory behavior. And this is not exactly a small company, and nor did they just pop up last week. But hey, don't let that stop you, NYT, from presenting every allegation as fact, without requiring any pesky "evidence" to back things up, and despite counterevidence. And by all means, please don't follow up with a correction each time a court rules against the plaintiffs - or if you do, bury it as a brief blurb vs. your huge "Tesla is racist" spread.
 
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Holy hell this thread. It's amazing how many people here are jumping in to say "but what about (the stock price), (other companies), (Tesla's lgbtq record), (photo evidence), (...)?" and sow your own deflection and FUD, nevermind that the things alleged in the article are things that black workers in the US have faced for decades/centuries.

Y'all are for real out of touch with the 2018 America experience for people of color if you think things like this are just hit pieces set up by shorty shorts.
 
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Holy hell this thread. It's amazing how many people here are jumping in to say "but what about (the stock price), (other companies), (Tesla's lgbtq record), (photo evidence), (...)?" and sow your own deflection and FUD, nevermind that the things alleged in the article are things that black workers in the US have faced for decades/centuries.

Y'all are for real out of touch with the 2018 America experience for people of color if you think things like this are just hit pieces set up by shorty shorts.

There's a difference between "racists existing at a company" and "the company being racist". So long as the company has a strong policy against racist behavior - and enforces it - they're behaving properly. Such as the case where Tesla dismissed a contractor for racist graffiti.

That's not how the NYT is trying to portray it, however. They're trying to portray it as the company being racist, and willfully ignoring or even encouraging racism. That's an entirely different issue. The NYT ran this big spread based on accusations that are a year old, without a peep on current, admitted incidents of racism at GM.

Perhaps I'm a bit more sensitive to this than most because I remember on 2 or 3 occasions during my father's career, his department was the target of lawsuits alleging racism. Now, I'm not in any way afraid to call out a family member for any perception of racism (example: my mother's father had some "Early-to-mid 1900s Chicago policeman" attitudes towards minorities, and I can see bits of it rubbed off in my mother, although I doubt she has any clue about that). But my father is one of the least racist people I could think of - very much an internationalist, we're-all-the-same type of person. What he always was, however, was a very tough boss. And he or those under him would repremand or fire people who weren't pulling their weight or doing bad things. This happened of course many, many times - which is what happens when you're a high-ranking exec in a major company with tens of thousands of employees. And on a couple occasions, people who were fired who happened to be minorities filed suit alleging that it was because of their race. Each time, the company presented the evidence as to the person's poor performance or misbehavior, and each time, the courts sided with the company, and the case was dismissed. And it was painful to my father each time it happened, because it was effectively calling him a racist, even though he was just doing his job in keeping the company performing by getting rid of poor-performing (or misbehaving) employees.

This sort of thing is pretty much guaranteed to happen in any large company. Thankfully for the companies my father worked for, there wasn't a media campaign seeking to destroy them. A responsible journalist would never sensationalize mere allegations and try to make them into a big hit piece (while ignoring the same at competitors) and keep bringing them up a year after they were first reported on. But when it comes to Tesla and journalists who hate it, that's the entire name of the game - find anything you can hit them with, even mere allegations, no context or comparison, play them up, and keep hitting Tesla with it over and over again. Which is why they're known as hit pieces.
 
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There's a difference between "racists existing at a company" and "the company being racist". So long as the company has a strong policy against racist behavior - and enforces it - they're behaving properly. Such as the case where Tesla dismissed a contractor for racist graffiti.

That's not how the NYT is trying to portray it, however. They're trying to portray it as the company being racist, and willfully ignoring or even encouraging racism. That's an entirely different issue. The NYT ran this big spread based on accusations that are a year old, without a peep on current, admitted incidents of racism at GM.

Totally with you here in general, but I disagree that they're trying to portray the company as racist. The news angle here is: "here's a bold visionary startup that's rethinking everything and changing the world but at the same time seems to have trouble escaping workplace issues that have plagued traditional US companies for decades." That's a big reason why GM isn't mentioned: it isn't about GM or discrimination in the automotive industry in general.

This sort of thing is pretty much guaranteed to happen in any large company.

Yep, which is why it's a real bad look when people here jump on it and say "what about this?! what about that?!" when talking about something that is basically prima facie correct in the workplace of a large US corporation. I think it's disrespectful of the folks mentioned in the article but also missing the point of why it's being reported.

Whether or not the NYTimes has some sort of agenda against Tesla is certainly a matter worth discussing, but I think a reasonable case can be made for why this is being reported beyond the motives of that agenda.
 
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I did not click on the article, because I'm blocking the NYTimes. So my following is doubly parlous, but here goes.

Although I hope what we're seeing here is more nefarious garbage coming out of one of a number of usual suspects - could be emanating, for example, from UAW-type rabble rousers -

there is another possibility. Italicized because I admit I'm heading out on a limb...a very ugly limb.

I have very, very long experience in East Asia, and as much as remnant racism persists amongst North American caucasians, it is far more pervasive in East Asia, most particularly in China and Japan but I believe in Korea, too (where my knowledge is weakest). Such racism is most directly aimed at blacks.

IS THERE THE possibility that the employment structure at TeslaFremont is such that there could be a catalyzing toxic mix of EAsian-derived and black American employees? Does the very fact that I'm writing this suggest to anyone that I myself deserve a couple'a whacks across my noggin?
Don't get too upset it was prob'ly. N*Y*T that subconsciously set you off--- red rags bulls etc;)
 
Totally with you here in general, but I disagree that they're trying to portray the company as racist. The news angle here is: "here's a bold visionary startup that's rethinking everything and changing the world but at the same time seems to have trouble escaping workplace issues that have plagued traditional US companies for decades." That's a big reason why GM isn't mentioned: it isn't about GM or discrimination in the automotive industry in general.



Yep, which is why it's a real bad look when people here jump on it and say "what about this?! what about that?!" when talking about something that is basically prima facie correct in the workplace of a large US corporation. I think it's disrespectful of the folks mentioned in the article but also missing the point of why it's being reported.

Whether or not the NYTimes has some sort of agenda against Tesla is certainly a matter worth discussing, but I think a reasonable case can be made for why this is being reported beyond the motives of that agenda.


The article is a hit piece because of the title claiming that there are many workers experiencing racism while article body down not prove it in any way.
 
As a country, and as a group of people, this country has lambasted racism and shown that it will not be tolerated.
Are you serious, given who was elected POTUS - or for that matter Mississippi Senator just the other day ?

I guess it depends on your personal experience. Its all too real for people who experience first hand - and not so much for those who don't. There is also a large partisan & racial gap - even though a majority of whites recognize racism as a big problem now compared to 2009.

Here is what I think Tesla should do. Take any reports of racism seriously, investigate thoroughly and punish offenders if found to be true. It is far too easy to dismiss reports of racism or sexism (and other forms of discrimination) as lies - even though we all acknowledge that those things happen regularly in the society. So, no company is immune - only way to battle this is to be vigilant and take people seriously when they complain.

FT_17.08.29_racismProblem_2.png
 
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Just search. Lots of items like this :

With someone like Trump as POTUS, it is natural for racists to feel emboldened. There are innumerable reports of open racist chantings in school games or Nazi salutes by students in formal photographs (which go unpunished).

Its not just in US. wherever there is a far right wing government, racists / bigots feel emboldened. It happens in UK and it happens in India (anti-Muslim incidents).

Hate crimes jump for fourth straight year in largest U.S. cities, study shows

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...are-still-on-the-rise/?utm_term=.86663e09573e
 
But rather than reporting on what has been confirmed to be happening at GM in a lawsuit that was just filed (new news), they're instead recycling a year-old lawsuit against Tesla in a long, dramatic article with literally no evidence backing up the claims, except one case where the accuser had admitted to using the exact same language that he had been accusing other coworkers of using, and one case involving a contractor who was suspended without pay.

I'll repeat that Tesla has never - not once - been found in court to have engaged in discriminatory behavior.

Hmmm … not sure where to begin.

First of all its common for blacks to use n* with other blacks. That is not used as a racial epithet. Afterall a comic used it with Obama during white house correspondents dinner. Would you be ok if Trump called Obama a n* ? That doesn't mean its ok for others to use the racial slur - in a recorded video. The fact that the guy even recorded the video shows he thought the company culture is such that he was confident he won't be punished. And that's exactly what happened.

As to Tesla never - not once - been found in court …. that could be because most of the cases get settled out of court (in arbitration or otherwise). Its not just Tesla - pretty common in corporate America.

As an example - there were zero court cases or judgements against Weinstein before the October '17 NYT article.

In an email to employees last year, which the company later released in response to one of the lawsuits, Elon Musk, Tesla’s chief executive, warned against “being a huge jerk” to members of “a historically less represented group.” At the same time, he wrote, “if someone is a jerk to you, but sincerely apologizes, it is important to be thick-skinned and accept that apology.”
This is not what a CEO should be saying. This is like saying its ok to be racist, as long as you apologize afterwards if challenged. Its interesting that Musk couldn't bring himself up to writing "racist" and used an euphemism ("jerk") instead. He should be writing - racism is not tolerated. Period.

BTW, the below is far too common in work place. If you complain, you get fired. Nothing happens to the offender. This is the reason few people complain.

The younger Mr. Diaz complained to his staffing firm and then to a Tesla supervisor about racial abuse, protesting that the supervisor was “calling me an N-word every day,” according to a lawsuit. The suit says that within days, he was given a written warning of misconduct and was shortly out of a job. Tesla said he had been let go after repeated warnings about failing to wear protective clothing.
 
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The article is a hit piece because of the title claiming that there are many workers experiencing racism while article body down not prove it in any way.
Did you read the same article as I did ? There are a number of examples given - and several pending court cases. What "proof" are you looking for ?

The state’s Department of Fair Employment and Housing says it has issued 10 “right to sue” letters — a precondition for a discrimination lawsuit — to employees complaining of racial bias at the Fremont plant. Dozens of other complaints against Tesla are pending, but the agency would not say how many involved race.
 
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Did you read the same article as I did ? There are a number of examples given - and several pending court cases. What "proof" are you looking for ?


Handful of unproven allegations out of 14000 workforce.

Also there’s one instance cited where Tesla said they wish they caught it sooner rather shows that Tesla cares.
 
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Handful of unproven allegations out of 14000 workforce.

Also there’s one instance cited where Tesla said they with they caught it sooner rather shows that Tesla cares.

So, when do you want NYT to report ? After a hundred cases have been settled in the court ?

But when it comes to Tesla and journalists who hate it, that's the entire name of the game - find anything you can hit them with, even mere allegations, no context or comparison, play them up, and keep hitting Tesla with it over and over again. Which is why they're known as hit pieces.

Its not just Tesla. NYT does these kinds of reports on a number of companies. Ofcourse, high profile companies get hit more often - not unknown companies, though sometimes unknown companies too.

Uber : Inside Uber’s Aggressive, Unrestrained Workplace Culture

Amazon : Inside Amazon: Wrestling Big Ideas in a Bruising Workplace

Apple : Apple’s iPad and the Human Costs for Workers in China

XPO : Miscarrying at Work: The Physical Toll of Pregnancy Discrimination
 
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NYT article about Tesla is a click bait since title does not reflect the content.

Edit: what would be a good title you might ask? “Our research into culture of racism at Fremont Tesla uncovered only few unproven allegations”.
 
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First of all its common for blacks to use n* with other blacks. That is not used as a racial epithet

You can be forgiven for being misinformed because all you read was the NYT hit piece.

Here's what Tesla actually said regarding Vaughn's lawsuit:

Hotbed of Misinformation

At the time, our investigation identified a number of conflicting accusations and counter-accusations between several African-American and Hispanic individuals, alleging use of racial language, including the "n-word" and "w-word," towards each other and a threat of violence. After a thorough investigation, immediate action was taken, which included terminating the employment of three of the individuals.

Here's what Tesla said about Lambert:

Tesla claimed it received Lambert’s complaint in April 2016 and conducted a series of interviews relating to the matter. The company said it found that Lambert socialized with his alleged bullies outside of work and Lambert himself often used the same racially insensitive language.

"HR personnel investigated, interviewing all of the employees who were reportedly involved. That investigation turned up conflicting accounts of what happened, with other employees saying that Dewitt had the 'dirtiest mouth' they had 'ever heard,' including using the same racially insensitive language that he had complained about."

"In the end, there was no objective evidence that anything inappropriate occurred toward Dewitt. As a result, our HR team coached this group of employees on the importance of behaving professionally and the investigation was closed."

Yes, that's right - Lambert was friends with the people he later decided were actually racist tormentors, and called them the n-word as well.

Dewitt-Lambert-instant-messages.png


Got that? They were (at least former) friends who were trying to get each other in trouble with management.

Bah, why mention any of this when we're digging up a year-old lawsuit for now obvious reason other than we don't have anything current to bash Tesla over the head with...

Its interesting that Musk couldn't bring himself up to writing "racist" and used an euphemism ("jerk") instead. He should be writing - racism is not tolerated. Period.

Oh please. You know very well that if Musk had said that, all of the people trying to destroy Tesla in the media would have jumped on that as an admission that Tesla has a big problem with racists.
 
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I'm one of the only ones amongst us that worked in a factory in the USA. 16 years of racism and sexism, some of it from me since I was only 19 when I was hired. I changed as most of my co-workers didn't. Mostly undereducated immigrants worked in the factory. Tesla is growing exponentially and unlike other tech companies most employees aren't well educated. Just look at who elected trump.
 
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