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Range/Efficiency Report from 10,000+ mile US roadtrip

srlawren

Member
Aug 3, 2020
576
375
Vancouver, BC, Canada, Eh?
Not sure if you misspoke but I think it's impossible to make your trip "faster" when needing to charge. On my trip, rule of thumb using ABRP (which optimizes for charging curve) was that about 1 hour of charge time added for every 350 miles driven. This didn't I include time to detour to the SC - some SCs are right off interstates but others are more like 5-6min detour.

@modlyowner I think what they meant was: it's faster to make several shorter stops at more superchargers than to stop less often and fill to a higher %, due to how the charging curve works.
 
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modlyowner

Member
Mar 15, 2021
12
12
New York
@modlyowner I think what they meant was: it's faster to make several shorter stops at more superchargers than to stop less often and fill to a higher %, due to how the charging curve works.
That's correct. ABRP optimizes for this. However, its estimated charging times are not accurate as they assume a charger operates at its rated power, which I found to be rare (and even more rare if more than one car is charging at once). I found quite a few 150kw chargers that struggled to charge at even half their rated levels even when I was in the "sweet spot" of the charging curve.
 
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mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,034
559
Bay Area CA
Most people aren't on vacation and taking long road trips most of the time. Most people live in (sub)urban areas and don't commute for 100s of miles daily.

I think I'm typical and (used) go on vacation maybe 3-4 weeks a year. Generally, only one of those will be a road trip and the others are international travel where I'm flying out of the country. I plan on doing more road trips, but that still leaves ~11 months of real-life. That ~one week during a road trip isn't that important compare to the rest of the year (51/52 weeks). I can rent a vehicle with a massive fuel tank if needed.

I strongly disagree that "real life" for most drivers is cruising around the Bay Area/silicon valley, but we can leave it at that.

In my view, range is most critical when on a roadtrip, when there are likely to be 100+ mile stretches on open road and higher speeds. If your EV's primary use is as a commuter vehicle or for short trips, it doesn't really matter if your range is 100 miles versus 300 miles because you'll be charging well before your battery is low enough to care.
 

modlyowner

Member
Mar 15, 2021
12
12
New York
Most people aren't on vacation and taking long road trips most of the time. Most people live in (sub)urban areas and don't commute for 100s of miles daily.

I think I'm typical and (used) go on vacation maybe 3-4 weeks a year. Generally, only one of those will be a road trip and the others are international travel where I'm flying out of the country. I plan on doing more road trips, but that still leaves ~11 months of real-life. That ~one week during a road trip isn't that important compare to the rest of the year (51/52 weeks). I can rent a vehicle with a massive fuel tank if needed.
Every situation is different. I am mostly using public transport as I live in a city and primary use for my car is for weekend getaways to ski/or or to visit inlaws about 200mi away.

I'm not claiming my driving situation is more "typical" than yours (or vice versa), but I think it is a fact that range only really becomes relevant when making 100+ mile trips, which most often entails some form of higher-speed highway driving.

If you are saying "most people use their EV as a commuter car, so they shouldn't sweat range", then I agree with you. But there are also plenty of people trying to take their car on longer trips who continually end up surprised that they don't get 300 miles per charge. They deserve to be better informed.
 
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mark95476

Active Member
Jun 21, 2020
1,034
559
Bay Area CA
Agreed and agreed.

I used to take the bus and trains occasionally here too. I'd really like to ride my bike and have more bike friendly infrastructure like certain parts of western europe. Work is ~10 miles away for me so it's an easy bike ride, except for the unacceptable risk of being maimed or killed so I don't and drive instead.

For me, having AP is making it a lot easier to relax and tolerate commutes (mine is short and sometimes stressful) and highway miles. Its amazing to be the driver and being able to look around instead of focused on the road.

Every situation is different. I am mostly using public transport as I live in a city and primary use for my car is for weekend getaways to ski/or or to visit inlaws about 200mi away.

I'm not claiming my driving situation is more "typical" than yours (or vice versa), but I think it is a fact that range only really becomes relevant when making 100+ mile trips, which most often entails some form of higher-speed highway driving.

If you are saying "most people use their EV as a commuter car, so they shouldn't sweat range", then I agree with you. But there are also plenty of people trying to take their car on longer trips who continually end up surprised that they don't get 300 miles per charge. They deserve to be better informed.
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
1,829
1,807
Maryland
You're taking about a 10% hit on the EPA range because of your tire/wheel choice. This is based on tests done on the Model 3 aero vs sport wheels.
The 20" Model Y Induction wheels are efficient, weigh only slightly more than the 19" wheels with Gemini wheel covers. The net weight of the Continental tires mounted on the 19" wheels and the Goodyear tires mounted on the 20" Induction wheels are practically the same. The efficiency/range loss is not nearly as much as the 9% to10% loss to be expected with the heavier 21" Uberturbine wheels.
 
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VT_EE

Active Member
Apr 22, 2017
2,025
2,422
Maryland
The 20" Model Y Induction wheels are efficient, weigh only slightly more than the 19" wheels with Gemini wheel covers. The net weight of the Continental tires mounted on the 19" wheels and the Goodyear tires mounted on the 20" Induction wheels are practically the same. The efficiency/range loss is not nearly as much as the 9% to10% loss to be expected with the heavier 21" Uberturbine wheels.
Unless the tires are the same low-resistance models on the Gemini's, you can subtract 5% loss just from tire design not including the additional loss from the Induction wheel being slightly heavier and less aerodynamic.
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
1,829
1,807
Maryland
Unless the tires are the same low-resistance models on the Gemini's, you can subtract 5% loss just from tire design not including the additional loss from the Induction wheel being slightly heavier and less aerodynamic.
Actually neither the Continental ProContact RX tire that is standard on the 19" wheels with the Gemini covers or the Goodyear Eagle F1 tire that is standard on the 20" Induction wheels are LRR tires. The Continental ProContact RX is a Grand Touring All Season Tire, the Goodyear Eagle F1 is an Ultra High Performance All Season Tire.

The Tesla 20" Induction wheel is a very aerodynamic wheel design. The only negative is that the Induction wheels cost $2000 additional (for a set of four Induction wheels, tires) versus the standard 19" wheels, tires. That and the Induction wheel is flush with the side of the tire where it can easily be damaged by contacting a curb. When a Model Y equipped with a tow hitch is towing a trailer with three or more passengers in the Model Y the tow rating is lower than the 3500 lb tow rating with the 19" wheels or the 21" wheels (Performance Model Y.)

Anyway, here is the maths [sic]:

19" wheel (named the Apollo wheel in the Tesla Parts Catalog, aka Tesla Power Sport wheel on the TSportline site Model Y wheel information page) comes with Gemini wheel covers (similar to the Tesla Aero covers that come on the 18" wheels on the Model 3) wt. 29.6 lbs
Continental ProContact RX 245/45/R19 wt. 26 lbs
Total weight: 55.6 lbs (not sure if this includes the Gemini wheel covers)

20" Induction wheel wt. 31.55 lbs (1.95 lbs heavier than the 19" wheel)
Goodyear Eagle F1 255/40/R20: wt. 25 lbs (1 lbs lighter than the Continental ProContact RX tire)
Total weight: 56.55 lbs.

The 20" Induction wheel and tire combination is only 0.95 lbs heavier than the 19" wheel and tire combo (may or may not including the Gemini wheel covers.) If anything, the additional weight of the Gemini wheel covers will make the 19" wheel and tire combo slightly heavier.
 
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srlawren

Member
Aug 3, 2020
576
375
Vancouver, BC, Canada, Eh?
@jcanoe that reminds me, been meaning to ask for a while: are the "naked" Apollo rims less prone to curbing? I think the outer rim (the part that shows silver when people powder-coat the Gemini covers black) is probably as flush with the tire as the Induction, but the spokes and hub are not as exposed? Is that right? So if you curb, you might damage that little outer band but not necessarily the spokes?
 

jcanoe

Active Member
Oct 2, 2020
1,829
1,807
Maryland
@jcanoe that reminds me, been meaning to ask for a while: are the "naked" Apollo rims less prone to curbing? I think the outer rim (the part that shows silver when people powder-coat the Gemini covers black) is probably as flush with the tire as the Induction, but the spokes and hub are not as exposed? Is that right? So if you curb, you might damage that little outer band but not necessarily the spokes?
I don't know. My experience with curbing alloy wheels is thankfully very limited. I imagine the rim is the most exposed part of the 19" wheel once you remove the Gemini wheel cover. Another reason to like the 19" wheels with the Gemini cover is that if you curb one of the 19" wheels the Gemini wheel cover may protect most of the wheel from damage. The Gemini wheel cover can be easily replaced if damaged.
 

IwantMY

Member
Oct 20, 2019
5
5
Hagerstown, MD, USA
That's correct. ABRP optimizes for this. However, its estimated charging times are not accurate as they assume a charger operates at its rated power, which I found to be rare (and even more rare if more than one car is charging at once). I found quite a few 150kw chargers that struggled to charge at even half their rated levels even when I was in the "sweet spot" of the charging curve.
V2 chargers share transformer cabinets in pairs. Each pair maxes out around 140-150kw. So if you’re in 4a and someone else is in 4b you should expect only 70-80kw until the other car is above 75% SOC. If the stall next to you is empty you should have no problem getting 140-150kw if your car is ready for it. V3 chargers have dedicated cabinets so they should always max what your car can take based on SOC and batt temp.
 
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GaryY

Member
Sep 4, 2020
18
17
Utah
In general, the car's navigation system estimating arrival charge level was NOT accurate. I wouldn't rely on this tool going forward to estimate charge, especially if weather is inclement (see below) or terrain is challenging. ABRP, on the other hand, was quite accurate in estimating my charge on arrival at any given waypoint. ABRP was mostly conservative, and only proved to be overly optimistic on a couple of days where I encountered strong headwinds
I just came back from my first (much shorter - 1200 mile round trip) road trip. My impression is similar to this. The navigation estimate I found to be pretty accurate only if I drove the speed limit and there was no headwind. It might have still been slightly optimistic even in that setting but the car had 2-300 pounds of extra weight for the trip as well. ABRP was pretty conservative with weight/temperature/wind/speed factored in, and the only leg it proved overly optimistic on was when I had input a 5 mph headwind that in real life ended up being more like 20-30 mph. I think Tesla could ease a lot of angst by having the navigation trip function let you input a percentage over speed limit you will drive, expected wind and road conditions, and excess weight. The nav would then be about as accurate as ABRP, and you wouldn't need to have found out about a separate app.
 
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TomServo

Active Member
Apr 10, 2014
1,168
709
Belleville IL
That's correct. ABRP optimizes for this. However, its estimated charging times are not accurate as they assume a charger operates at its rated power, which I found to be rare (and even more rare if more than one car is charging at once). I found quite a few 150kw chargers that struggled to charge at even half their rated levels even when I was in the "sweet spot" of the charging curve.
Should ABRP allow the user to enter in different “average“ SC’er speeds. I’ve seen V3 SC’ers unable to to equal V2 speeds for whatever reason.
 

John Falconer

Member
May 17, 2020
11
9
NorCal
Thanks for the detailed report. Of real interest to me since we'll be driving our MYLR from NorCal to New England and back this summer.

I'm coming up on a year of MY ownership but with relatively few miles driven due to COVID-19. I've got 4,427 miles on the odometer and a lifetime average of 261 Wh/Mile per TeslaFi.

We are really looking forward to the trip, one we usually make by rail (either Canadian or Amtrak).
 

MikeHolliday

Member
May 9, 2020
318
209
Worthington, Ohio
I did many road Trips this past winter. If I am looking for Range, I can keep it at 65mph, no high speed passing or jack rabbit starts. If I pre-heat for 5-10 minutes before pulling out of garage my Model Y will use less than 250 Wh/mile on a 200-300 mile leg. Yes, I have done 300 mile legs with a few percentages of Battery left. Here is where I see the problem, those high speed passes, jack rabbit starts are such a blast in my car it his hard not to take advantage of, it is almost like a fix for an addict. I have also learned from experience and from extensive talks with the local SC is to keep the Climate Control on Automatic, set the desired temperature and leave it along, do not touch the fan speed. I have completed numerous trips this past winter with the Climate Control Set to Automatic & 71 degrees, Navigate on Autopilot, streaming music with the outside temperature between 34 and 37 degrees, do a 200 mile leg and use 68-71 percent of charge. When accelerating rapidly or letting your speed creep up to 85 mph is going to make a HUGE impact on range, even for brief periods...
 
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