Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[jjrandorin]

Probably yet another question on range but I didn't see any postings here that might address my particular situation so I decided to ask.

About three weeks ago I purchased a 2019 Model 3 Performance with roughly 19K on the clock. The vehicle didn't come with the UMC so it took me approximately a week and a half to get the new one. Once I finally had the ability to charge I noticed the vehicle only charged up to 238 miles. After further investigation I discovered there is a charge setting which limits how much to charge and that it can be changed via the charging screen. Great!

I bump up the setting to full charge and, when completed, I had 265 miles of range. This is considerably lower than the 308 miles the car is advertised at. After some searching I did see that some loss of range is expected during the first year and then tapers off for subsequent years. This amounts to a decrease of 14%, considerably higher than what I saw in the searching I performed.

So I have a few questions:

• Is a 14% reduction in range typical of a two year old Model 3 with roughly 19K miles?
• Does driving habits affect the maximum range?

I know with my Volt the way I drove the vehicle had an impact on the displayed maximum range but I can't recall an instance, aside from cold weather temperatures, where the maximum range was ever lower than the advertised range (53 miles). This after three years of ownership. There were times where, based on my driving habits, the range would reach 70 miles (but it took a while to get there so I think it was based on my average driving style). If the previous owner of this Model 3 liked to utilize its performance would that drop the range estimate down more than someone who was less enthusiastic with the car? Or is this something I should contact Tesla about?

Its a bit higher than some, but not totally unexpected. Also, performance model 3s with 20 inch tires didnt actually start with 310 miles range. They started with 299 because of the tires.

 

[WhiteWi]

Don’t overthink it. Just charge how you like and Convenient for you. Enjoy the ICE free life

 

[Sophias_dad]

Probably yet another question on range but I didn't see any postings here that might address my particular situation so I decided to ask.

About three weeks ago I purchased a 2019 Model 3 Performance with roughly 19K on the clock. The vehicle didn't come with the UMC so it took me approximately a week and a half to get the new one. Once I finally had the ability to charge I noticed the vehicle only charged up to 238 miles. After further investigation I discovered there is a charge setting which limits how much to charge and that it can be changed via the charging screen. Great!

I bump up the setting to full charge and, when completed, I had 265 miles of range. This is considerably lower than the 308 miles the car is advertised at. After some searching I did see that some loss of range is expected during the first year and then tapers off for subsequent years. This amounts to a decrease of 14%, considerably higher than what I saw in the searching I performed.

So I have a few questions:

• Is a 14% reduction in range typical of a two year old Model 3 with roughly 19K miles?
• Does driving habits affect the maximum range?

I know with my Volt the way I drove the vehicle had an impact on the displayed maximum range but I can't recall an instance, aside from cold weather temperatures, where the maximum range was ever lower than the advertised range (53 miles). This after three years of ownership. There were times where, based on my driving habits, the range would reach 70 miles (but it took a while to get there so I think it was based on my average driving style). If the previous owner of this Model 3 liked to utilize its performance would that drop the range estimate down more than someone who was less enthusiastic with the car? Or is this something I should contact Tesla about?

I won't answer any of your questions, but charging to 100% is not advisable unless you need it for a long trip. It's hard on the batteries to fully charge, and apparently bad to have it hanging out at 100% as well. So go for a drive and enjoy your new 3.

 

[Sunny5280]

I won't answer any of your questions, but charging to 100% is not advisable unless you need it for a long trip. It's hard on the batteries to fully charge, and apparently bad to have it hanging out at 100% as well. So go for a drive and enjoy your new 3.

I was charging it to that level for a couple of reasons:

• I wanted to see what the maximum range was
• I was planning on a trip to the mountains

It was the latter reason which was the primary reason for charging to 100%. I wanted to ensure I had as much range as I could to ensure I could make the trip (since, at the time I charged it, my Supercharging privileges had been suspended).

There's also another reason not to charge to 100%...regenerative braking is not available with a full battery.

As for driving it around that's exactly what I've been doing. Yesterday I took it to the mountains to take the dog for a walk and see how much range it used for the trip. Today I drove it around town for the same reasons. I'm attempting to familiarize myself with how far I can go on what range so I know before I need to know. Plus, it's just dang fun to drive...very happy with it (and this in "chill" mode).

 

[Sunny5280]

Its a bit higher than some, but not totally unexpected. Also, performance model 3s with 20 inch tires didnt actually start with 310 miles range. They started with 299 because of the tires.

Mine has 18" tires, would that make a difference?

 

[Sunny5280]

Don’t overthink it. Just charge how you like and Convenient for you. Enjoy the ICE free life

I'm not, just wanted to check and ensure there's nothing wrong. Last thing I want is to find out there was a problem which I ignored and can no longer get fixed under warranty because I had done so.

If the maximum range remains 265 miles I'm good with that, it's well within the majority of my driving needs and for those which are exceeded I'll use my Subaru.

 

[Stan930]

Can someone please enlighten me on why this model Y in the video has the older pack? Due to being China made?
Also, why is the data different on SMT on my new M3 (82kwh), compared to this new Y? I don’t have the battery degradation data point.

 

[jjrandorin]

Mine has 18" tires, would that make a difference?

That would impact the actual range and also range calculations, yes. Ensure that you have 18inch tires selected in the cars software. 14% is at the higher end of displayed range lost, but its not completely out of bounds.

 

[Sunny5280]

That would impact the actual range and also range calculations, yes. Ensure that you have 18inch tires selected in the cars software. 14% is at the higher end of displayed range lost, but its not completely out of bounds.

The wheel configuration is set correctly. Perhaps I should call Tesla. As long as I don't have to deal with their Customer Satisfaction team maybe they'll replace the battery

 

[jjrandorin]

The wheel configuration is set correctly. Perhaps I should call Tesla. As long as I don't have to deal with their Customer Satisfaction team maybe they'll replace the battery

I am assuming you are joking, but there is absolutely positively, 10000000000000% (comical percentage intended) chance they will tell you "its fine" and then inform you that the battery degradation warranty on your car is "30% loss before 8 years or 120K miles.

Dont bother contacting them over it. In fact, its also possible that whoever the original owner is sold the car because they were annoyed that it was at the higher end of battery degradation.

 

[Sunny5280]

I am assuming you are joking, but there is absolutely positively, 10000000000000% (comical percentage intended) chance they will tell you "its fine" and then inform you that the battery degradation warranty on your car is "30% loss before 8 years or 120K miles.

Dont bother contacting them over it. In fact, its also possible that whoever the original owner is sold the car because they were annoyed that it was at the higher end of battery degradation.

Yeah, I'm just joking. I posted because I wanted to know if this was typical or an anomaly.

 

[stopcrazypp]

• Is a 14% reduction in range typical of a two year old Model 3 with roughly 19K miles?

It's a bit much compared to the average (for examples C&D has 7% after 24K miles).
Our Tesla Model 3 Has Lost 7 Percent of Battery Capacity in 24K Miles
But as per others pointed out Tesla will do nothing about it unless it has hit under 70% (that's when warranty gives a replacement).
Vehicle Warranty

• Does driving habits affect the maximum range?

It does affect the real world range, but should not affect the displayed rated range. Others have pointed out the wheels on it may change things however (you can change the wheels to match the actual ones on your car under Service > Wheel Configuration).

Calculating the capacity is probably a better way to keep tabs of your capacity than the range figure.
Calculating Your Battery's Estimated Capacity Using the Car's Energy Screen

Also, note your battery may also be out of balance. There is a sticky thread on how to get it back in balance, but if you are ok with the current range you may not want to bother:
How I Recovered Half of my Battery's Lost Capacity

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Is a 14% reduction in range typical of a two year old Model 3 with roughly 19K miles?

It’s below average but normal.

You have 65kWh down from 78kWh when new.

The car is used - and you’re probably more likely to get a car on the lower end of the spectrum in the used market. Just the way things go; there is selection bias.

If the previous owner of this Model 3 liked to utilize its performance would that drop the range estimate down more than someone who was less enthusiastic with the car?

No it would have no effect on the range estimate. It could have some impact on the battery capacity of course - it does matter how the battery was treated.
It’s not a guess-o-meter, so driving style has no effect on the estimate.

Also, performance model 3s with 20 inch tires didnt actually start with 310 miles range. They started with 299 because of the tires.

That was not until 2020. The 2019 was rated for 310 miles, with the same capacity as 2020 (though the degradation threshold was 76kWh in 2019, rather than 77.8kWh or so for 2020).

That would impact the actual range and also range calculations, yes.

The wheel configuration is set correctly.

This will impact the actual range but not the range display, in 2019 models. Totally different story for 2020 vehicles.

 

[Starship21]

This is what I picked up from a PHD is battery chemistry and others. Tesla calibrate the Lithium Ion battery to 1000 cycles and 10% loss i think. 1000 cycles is around 500,000 k's. So if you followed their advice and charge to 90% and plug it in every night most of the time, that is what you can expect. The keep plugged advice is to keep the battery from getting too cold when first start driving.
Lithium Ion batteries swell when holding a charge and when they are hot, the two thing they don't like that much. Lithium Ion batteries are there happiest when at 50% and 25c. If you were to keep your battery between 40% and 60% and lived in a moderately warm climate, you can improve on Tesla's calibration to as much as maybe 4000 cycles. That is 2m k's. Obviously this is not practical, but useful as a guide. Charging betwen say 20% and 80%, you won't get 4000 cycles - maybe 1500 cycles. If you did 0% to 100%, you might get say 600 cycles. You are also not doing a lot of damage if occasionally changing to 100% or going close to 0%, just doing it all the time would eventually start to do damage.
Taking this onboard, what I do now is unless I need to is, not recharging every night and wait until I get into the 40% range before changing to 90%. That works while in lock down. If I was commuting to Sydney every day, I would off course charge the car each night. I don't think I need to keep the battery pack warm in Australian conditions as it just does not get that cold.

 

[KenC]

This is what I picked up from a PHD is battery chemistry and others. Tesla calibrate the Lithium Ion battery to 1000 cycles and 10% loss i think. 1000 cycles is around 500,000 k's. So if you followed their advice and charge to 90% and plug it in every night most of the time, that is what you can expect. The keep plugged advice is to keep the battery from getting too cold when first start driving.
Lithium Ion batteries swell when holding a charge and when they are hot, the two thing they don't like that much. Lithium Ion batteries are there happiest when at 50% and 25c. If you were to keep your battery between 40% and 60% and lived in a moderately warm climate, you can improve on Tesla's calibration to as much as maybe 4000 cycles. That is 2m k's. Obviously this is not practical, but useful as a guide. Charging betwen say 20% and 80%, you won't get 4000 cycles - maybe 1500 cycles. If you did 0% to 100%, you might get say 600 cycles. You are also not doing a lot of damage if occasionally changing to 100% or going close to 0%, just doing it all the time would eventually start to do damage.
Taking this onboard, what I do now is unless I need to is, not recharging every night and wait until I get into the 40% range before changing to 90%. That works while in lock down. If I was commuting to Sydney every day, I would off course charge the car each night. I don't think I need to keep the battery pack warm in Australian conditions as it just does not get that cold.

Interesting, I thought after reading the first paragraph that you were going to say that you charged every night and kept your car between 40% and 60%.

 

[DanPP]

I’m not sure if my battery is degrading or it’s suppose to be like this but the range says it’s supposed to be 329 miles but if I charge to 90% it’s 265 and if I slide it to 100% it says it’s going to get 294 miles.

Is something wrong with my battery or is it something I should be concerned about?

 

[jjrandorin]

I’m not sure if my battery is degrading or it’s suppose to be like this but the range says it’s supposed to be 329 miles but if I charge to 90% it’s 265 and if I slide it to 100% it says it’s going to get 294 miles.

Is something wrong with my battery or is it something I should be concerned about?

Where are you getting "range is supposed to be 329 miles"? You dont state what type of car you have, nor how old it is.

Nevermind, I see from your other posts you bought it used, from someone other than tesla and its a model 3 performance. 294 is absolutely fine for a performance model 3 thats used.

 

[DanPP]

Where are you getting "range is supposed to be 329 miles"? You dont state what type of car you have, nor how old it is.

Nevermind, I see from your other posts you bought it used, from tesla and its a model 3 performance. 294 is absolutely fine for a performance model 3 thats used.

I did in the post I made but it got moved , it’s the model 3 performance and on the Tesla site and auto trader it says 329 miles

 

[jjrandorin]

I did in the post I made but it got moved , it’s the model 3 performance and on the Tesla site and auto trader it says 329 miles

The post you made got moved, but its in its entirety above, and no it doesnt say what type of car, etc. You can find it in its entirety right above my last post.

Nevertheless

1. Used cars do not have the same range as new
2. you will never see the rated range in regular driving conditions
3. Tesla will not do anything (nothing, zip) until the car reaches 30% degradation from whatever it was new. EPA range on a brand new performance is 315, so EPA range on a used one is not 329.

You may be talking about the European rated range WLTP but i am less familiar with that. Your question was Is there something wrong or should I be concerned, and the answer is, "no, there is nothing wrong, and whether you want to be concerned or not depends on how far down this rabbit hole you want to go with something you cant do anything about".

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Is something wrong with my battery or is it something I should be concerned about?

Nope.

For a brand-new vehicle, for a 2020, it's a 299-mile range vehicle (when 20" wheels are selected).

For 2021 model year, it is a 315-mile range vehicle.

If you ever have questions about this, just look at fueleconomy.gov (United Sates EPA). With few exceptions, the displayed initial range will match this website for the year of your vehicle.

And as your capacity declines, which is normal, the displayed number will go down proportional to capacity loss (there are some caveats to this, but that's the quick and largely accurate story).

That number represents as near as the car can tell how much energy is left in your "tank." (Has nothing to do with distance really - it's only loosely correlated.)