If superchargers are plentiful around you, and not too busy, then just do your normal daily charging routine and charge on the road. A 20% charge, may be as little as 5 minutes. Don't overthink it. If you really like these thought experiments, try ABRP, abetterrouteplanner.com and test them out.
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Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health
- Thread starter KK_RedM3
- Start date
Hi, I have 2021 M3P with less than 3k miles. Today I tried to charge the car to 100% before my trip and see the range only at 304mi. I remember last time I tried to charge to 100% was few months ago when I first picked up the car the range was at 314mi. Does this mean my battery is already degrading? Any help appreciated! Thanks. Andy
Thanks for the replies. It is perhaps less of a concern in batter degradation (I don't intend to keep that car for more than a few years) but more of a curiosity.
uh oh.
uh oh.
I have a Model 3 long range dual motor version, since June 21 and I measured the Km range loss when the car is parked and unused.
There is no sentinel mode. Otherwise that's all. The battery was charged at 90% which is the normal max charge preset that came with the car. The range at 90% shows 482 km. I measured the range loss with ambient 20 degrees Celsius and 0 degrees Celsius. In both cases the car was not used for a full three weeks. The weekly loss in term of range was of 20 km and not visible difference between the two ambient temperatures.
There is no sentinel mode. Otherwise that's all. The battery was charged at 90% which is the normal max charge preset that came with the car. The range at 90% shows 482 km. I measured the range loss with ambient 20 degrees Celsius and 0 degrees Celsius. In both cases the car was not used for a full three weeks. The weekly loss in term of range was of 20 km and not visible difference between the two ambient temperatures.
Hi All,
Apologies if this is well tread territory but as I read comments about range, weather, battery, etc my experience still seems problematic. Sharing it here to see if it's consistent or an issue. I spoke to Tesla service once (no problem) and just made another appointment based on the following experience.
I have a mid-2019 M3 *long range dual motor* with ~30k miles. I have made no modifications, no bike rack or luggage mounts, have recent tires that are same dimensions as stock, have the car set to "Chill" acceleration mode and generally I am not a very aggressive driver but do speed on the highway consistent with other cars.
During the first year, when I drove the car a lot (long commute pre-pandemic) I was averaging 250ish kwh/mile but at some point after that first year (based on the total average) the efficiency has decreased quite a bit. That first year during my daily commute i would often marvel that my power consumption was under - better than! - the rated level. After that first year, the commute was exactly the same and my driving style probably didn't change but the wh/m seemed to be more likely to be ~300ish, but I drove it less often. FWIW, it's ~50 miles round trip with a pretty flat route (midwest USA), 2/3 highway driving. I've been observing this but not particularly concerned or annoyed until some recent longer trips.
The Weekend Trip
I had a ~300 mile trip day trip this weekend, ~150 there and then back, with a few miles at the destination. (Dropping off kid at college).
The car is normally kept in a garage (ambient temp ~40 F right now) and the car is normally changed 80-90%. For this trip I charged to 100% , which completed within 30 minutes of departure, and also pre-warmed the cabin 20 min before we left. The drive was normal - minimal traffic, no stops, and 90% highway on very flat roads. During that drive the cabin heat was on (~68F, no seat warmers) and highway speed probably hit 90 once or twice but would mostly be 80-85. (i know, big range, but bear with me here.. and it was absolutely faster than the trip back) Outdoor temp was probably 29F to 33F during the course of the route and it was sunny (no rain, no inclement weather, and not terribly windy).
When we arrived at the destination the car was around 12% and warning me to charge soon and if if the battery got colder range may significantly drop. We grabbed lunch and unloaded the car - maybe 30 min of the car not driving.
I charged the car to 90% at super charger and drove home immediately (so battery wouldnt have cooled down). This trip i kept it slower intentionally, and for at least half the trip I had no cabin heat on (it got chilly but power wasnt going to warm the cabin). I varied the speed a bit as I watched the power consumption chart but mostly drove it at 75 mph the route back. The posted limit was 70 so i was being passed by cars a lot, especially when i did drive 70 for a while. I got back home with ~10% (i didnt write it down) power.
I had taken screenshots of the trip screen though:
- Trip Out
366 wh/mi, ~55 kwh (i took screenshot a bit before the charging so it would be less) for the drive that was faster with cabin heat and more weight in the car
- Trip back
320 wh/mi, 47 kw/h for a drive that was intentionally slower with no cabin heat and an empty car except for me.
Since the return trip started at 90%, rather than 100%, i was still below 10% charge when i got home.
It really feels that a long range M3 with very reasonable driving, should be able to do 150 miles without excess concern and low battery warnings. Yes, it was around freezing temp but barely. If the reason of the increased power consumption was the speed or winter heating (battery itself aside, but it started warm) then i would expect the two trips to have a much bigger difference, yet they are closer than the slower one was to the rated.
A few other recent, similar, trips were the same but my wife drove (generally drives slower) and i wasnt there to keep tabs on the data points. I know when she returned it was at 7% and the weather was much warmer.
For what it's worth
- in the last 5500 miles (since tires new) average is 305 wh/m
- lifetime is 280 wh/m (its increase over time, since that first year)
Thanks in advance, sorry if i missed a post explaining this exact thing somewhere...
Apologies if this is well tread territory but as I read comments about range, weather, battery, etc my experience still seems problematic. Sharing it here to see if it's consistent or an issue. I spoke to Tesla service once (no problem) and just made another appointment based on the following experience.
I have a mid-2019 M3 *long range dual motor* with ~30k miles. I have made no modifications, no bike rack or luggage mounts, have recent tires that are same dimensions as stock, have the car set to "Chill" acceleration mode and generally I am not a very aggressive driver but do speed on the highway consistent with other cars.
During the first year, when I drove the car a lot (long commute pre-pandemic) I was averaging 250ish kwh/mile but at some point after that first year (based on the total average) the efficiency has decreased quite a bit. That first year during my daily commute i would often marvel that my power consumption was under - better than! - the rated level. After that first year, the commute was exactly the same and my driving style probably didn't change but the wh/m seemed to be more likely to be ~300ish, but I drove it less often. FWIW, it's ~50 miles round trip with a pretty flat route (midwest USA), 2/3 highway driving. I've been observing this but not particularly concerned or annoyed until some recent longer trips.
The Weekend Trip
I had a ~300 mile trip day trip this weekend, ~150 there and then back, with a few miles at the destination. (Dropping off kid at college).
The car is normally kept in a garage (ambient temp ~40 F right now) and the car is normally changed 80-90%. For this trip I charged to 100% , which completed within 30 minutes of departure, and also pre-warmed the cabin 20 min before we left. The drive was normal - minimal traffic, no stops, and 90% highway on very flat roads. During that drive the cabin heat was on (~68F, no seat warmers) and highway speed probably hit 90 once or twice but would mostly be 80-85. (i know, big range, but bear with me here.. and it was absolutely faster than the trip back) Outdoor temp was probably 29F to 33F during the course of the route and it was sunny (no rain, no inclement weather, and not terribly windy).
When we arrived at the destination the car was around 12% and warning me to charge soon and if if the battery got colder range may significantly drop. We grabbed lunch and unloaded the car - maybe 30 min of the car not driving.
I charged the car to 90% at super charger and drove home immediately (so battery wouldnt have cooled down). This trip i kept it slower intentionally, and for at least half the trip I had no cabin heat on (it got chilly but power wasnt going to warm the cabin). I varied the speed a bit as I watched the power consumption chart but mostly drove it at 75 mph the route back. The posted limit was 70 so i was being passed by cars a lot, especially when i did drive 70 for a while. I got back home with ~10% (i didnt write it down) power.
I had taken screenshots of the trip screen though:
- Trip Out
366 wh/mi, ~55 kwh (i took screenshot a bit before the charging so it would be less) for the drive that was faster with cabin heat and more weight in the car
- Trip back
320 wh/mi, 47 kw/h for a drive that was intentionally slower with no cabin heat and an empty car except for me.
Since the return trip started at 90%, rather than 100%, i was still below 10% charge when i got home.
It really feels that a long range M3 with very reasonable driving, should be able to do 150 miles without excess concern and low battery warnings. Yes, it was around freezing temp but barely. If the reason of the increased power consumption was the speed or winter heating (battery itself aside, but it started warm) then i would expect the two trips to have a much bigger difference, yet they are closer than the slower one was to the rated.
A few other recent, similar, trips were the same but my wife drove (generally drives slower) and i wasnt there to keep tabs on the data points. I know when she returned it was at 7% and the weather was much warmer.
For what it's worth
- in the last 5500 miles (since tires new) average is 305 wh/m
- lifetime is 280 wh/m (its increase over time, since that first year)
Thanks in advance, sorry if i missed a post explaining this exact thing somewhere...
Not with cold temps and speeds of 80+ MPH. 80-85 MPH may be freeway speeds, but is nowhere near "reasonable" as far as range is concerned.
CarlThompson
Member
No, a single cycle like that did not fix it in my case. Apparently it takes several cycles like that over weeks or months to slowly "fix" and bring the car's range estimate back up. It takes time for the BMS's calibration to get out of whack with the battery and it takes time to get it back in sync.
A few pages back there was discussion of warranty and the triggers that get a HV battery replaced. Just out of curiosity, are there any hopeful longterm owners out there abusing the heck out of the HV battery in order to be able to get the battery replaced prior to warranty expiration?
Elon, stop scribbling my name down...
Elon, stop scribbling my name down...
Its all clear that the warranty warrants 70% capacity until 8 years and xxyyzz miles/km. If you try to kill your battery and it reaches 69% or less, Tesla is only obliged to give you a battery that holds 70% the day the warranty expires. So they will give you a remanufactured battery that is at the same degradation level as your battery before it got ”faulty” and if you tried to wear it out you probably get one that barely manage the 70% the day the warranty expires.
So after 8 years your stuck with a much worse degradation then the people that did take care of the warranty.
Kill —> get a new one doesnt work.
CarlThompson
Member
What evidence do you have that Tesla actually does what you describe or are you just making things up to scare? I don't doubt they COULD do that but I've never heard that they DO. For the warranty replacements I've heard of Tesla has supplied a replacement battery that worked similarly to new.
Well, the warranty text has been described here on TMC in the forum many times, and most people that got battery change did get remanufactured batteries. In some cases there has been discussions about the capacity in the replacement battery.
I do not write this to scare, for sure
We can assume that Tesla do not manufacture new (first version) 2170 now, and we can assume that when 4680 is the new standard, 2170L of today wont be made anymore in 5 years.(I guess you can do the search for your self, but a search for "battery replacement" got me several hits with "range still is the same" and "a slight improvement in range" and "Thought it would be a new pack but it was a reconditioned one. " and so on. There was at least one guy that got a 85 or 90kWh battery instead of a 70, with a lot higher range but I would bet my perfect battery for the 1% chance of that )
Most probable is that the easiest way for Tesla to manage warranty issues after 5-8 years is to re-use batterypacks that have been repaired(for example broken BMS or contactors etc)
https://www.tesla.com/sites/default/files/downloads/tesla-new-vehicle-limited-warranty-en-us.pdf
Last edited:
If you check the model S subforums you will find that tesla does not give out new batteries for warranty, and the warranty specifically says that tesla can give new or remanufactured. the warranty also specifically spells out that the the replacement pack may not have the same capacity as new.
(text from page 7 and 8 relevan
============================
So, what @PartyBoy asked about is absolutely not going to work, as tesla will have every statistic possible on exactly how the car, and the battery, was used.
EDIT:.. I should have read to the end to see that @AAKEE had already snipped the same relevant parts.
The vast majority of the second trip - the one that was 320 - was at 75, with roughly as much time under that as above. So was there a pot at 80? yes, also at 60. And most of the trip was set to 75 explicitly to see the consumption at mid 70.
If your question was "is there something wrong with my car because of this consumption / Should I take it to tesla?" the answer to both of those would be "no".
They do mostly use remanufactured battery packs, and most of the time the range after replacement is similar to what it was before the battery failed. In at least one case a person had to fight to get another replacement because the battery they got had significantly less range than their pack that failed.
So you could luck out, but then you would have been living with significant degradation for years to get there... (Compared to if you just treated your battery normally.)
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