Range Loss Over Time, What Can Be Expected, Efficiency, How to Maintain Battery Health

[DudeBro]

I've got a 2023 RWD M3 which I took delivery of back in the beginning of March. Ofc battery degradation makes sense and all, but I'm not actually experiencing it?
The M3 does say I have less range now (started at 439km, down to 435) but realistically I am able to drive those missing 3-4km before the battery percentage actually starts counting down. Am I missing something? What's going on here?

 

[DrChaos]

I've got a 2023 RWD M3 which I took delivery of back in the beginning of March. Ofc battery degradation makes sense and all, but I'm not actually experiencing it?
The M3 does say I have less range now (started at 439km, down to 435) but realistically I am able to drive those missing 3-4km before the battery percentage actually starts counting down. Am I missing something? What's going on here?

At the very beginning of a new car there is some extra stickiness in the range display. Probably to make sure all slightly used (i.e. demo) cars display close to the rated range.

And with a LFP battery (2023 RWD I presume) the battery calibration is less certain anyway. By calibration, we mean that battery capacity/state of charge is not something that's directly measurable with accuracy. Only voltage is. The relationship between voltage, current drawn and state of charge has to be estimated by a running algorithm which has a few percent inaccuracy at times. LFP batteries have a voltage/current curve that makes the calibration less certain/accurate. Physics, nothing you can do about it.

In a nutshell: don't worry about it. There will always be some normal random fluctuations for reasons mortals can't divine. They average out over time.

Be happy you're driving the most efficient commercial mainstream EV in the world.

 

[DudeBro]

At the very beginning of a new car there is some extra stickiness in the range display. Probably to make sure all slightly used (i.e. demo) cars display close to the rated range.

And with a LFP battery (2023 RWD I presume) the battery calibration is less certain anyway. By calibration, we mean that battery capacity/state of charge is not something that's directly measurable with accuracy. Only voltage is. The relationship between voltage, current drawn and state of charge has to be estimated by a running algorithm which has a few percent inaccuracy at times. LFP batteries have a voltage/current curve that makes the calibration less certain/accurate. Physics, nothing you can do about it.

In a nutshell: don't worry about it. There will always be some normal random fluctuations for reasons mortals can't divine. They average out over time.

Be happy you're driving the most efficient commercial mainstream EV in the world.

I'm very happy with it so far, just that aspect kind of had me wondering what was going on. Appreciate the explanation! Thank you.

 

[AAKEE]

Thats about the same with my 21 MY. I lost ~10% in 2yrs. it was a steady 1mi/month loss for awhile but it seems to have leveled off. My max range is now 300mi. (which is plenty to get to the next SC so I dont worry about it too much....also because theres nothing I can do about it). My car is kept in an insulated garage, I only charge to 75%,, and only supercharged a total of 13xs.

75% is close to 80%.
80% is about the worst SOC to charge to (100% is the same or even less bad in some cases).

You should expect to loose somewhere about 5.5% the first year, just below 8% after two years and 9-10 after three years.

If the battery is kept at about 65-90% this will happen even if the car is not driven at all.
Calendar aging does this.

The degradation from cycles/driving is much less than many people think.

I did charge to 100% two times, but started driving soon after both of those times. I did that partially to "balance" the battery and partially because I didnt want to stop anywhere on a long trip (made it to my destination with 9%, and came back home after charging to 100% again with 11%).

Using 100% when needed is not bad.

On a long trip where you drive from 80-20%, you're only using 60% of the battery anyway, so that 10% loss is really just a 6% loss in realistic range). So instead of going 180mi between charges or whatever, you'll go 170mi between charges. Rarely will that make a difference in where you charge.

If you did get 180 miles between 80-20 when new, a 10% degradation makes that 18 miles loss, so 162 miles then.

 

[uniqueness]

I bought a model 3 but I didn't find such info in the official spec sheet or owner's manual.

There are mentionings in this wiki page. For the 2023 model 3 RWD, the efficiency is 25 kWh/100 mi, and the capacity is 57.5 kWh. But the numbers don't make sense to me because it won't get to 272 miles even with 100% capacity usage.

 

[DrChaos]

I bought a model 3 but I didn't find such info in the official spec sheet or owner's manual.

There are mentionings in this wiki page. For the 2023 model 3 RWD, the efficiency is 25 kWh/100 mi, and the capacity is 57.5 kWh. But the numbers don't make sense to me because it won't get to 272 miles even with 100% capacity usage.

The EPA MPGe and I think efficiency also include charging losses. The range does not.

 

[dhrivnak]

75% is close to 80%.
80% is about the worst SOC to charge to (100% is the same or even less bad in some cases).

You should expect to loose somewhere about 5.5% the first year, just below 8% after two years and 9-10 after three years.

If the battery is kept at about 65-90% this will happen even if the car is not driven at all.
Calendar aging does this.

The degradation from cycles/driving is much less than many people think.




Using 100% when needed is not bad.


If you did get 180 miles between 80-20 when new, a 10% degradation makes that 18 miles loss, so 162 miles

Both Tesla and I say it is fine to regularly charge to 90%. If you only charge to 70% or less the battery pack is unable to to balance and that WILL result in a loss of range as range is pegged to the weakest brick. And by doing this I have only lost 5%, after 5+ years and 110,000 miles. So far better than your predictions.

 

[AAKEE]

Both Tesla and I say it is fine to regularly charge to 90%.

To be square, they say “charge below 90%”, thats 50-89%. But that doesnt matter.

If you only charge to 70% or less the battery pack is unable to to balance and that WILL result in a loss of range as range is pegged to the weakest brick.

I charge daily to 55% and becusae of work and trips higher like 80-100% a couple of times in average each month.

My battery keeps 4mV imbalance even if like in May, only shallow cycles and 55% for four weeks in a row. The cell imbalance do not increase. Ive kept this in track for 2 1/2 years. Its safe.

If you mean the BMS ability to show correct capacity and range it’s mostly very good at this when charging to 50-55%.

As it seems, the people ”needing” a ”BMS Calibration” is mostly people that is nervous over lost range (due to BMS lost track of the capacity) and that seem to happen to *any* car by coincidence etc.

And by doing this I have only lost 5%, after 5+ years and 110,000 miles. So far better than your predictions. View attachment 950037

Is it a model 3 longe range dual motor?

It started at 310 miles, which needed 76 kWh energy.
The battery was 77.8 kWh capacity when new, and most often reached above 77.8kWh at that time.

76 kWh/ 310 miles is 245Wh/mile.
(We might need @AlanSubie4Life to confirm 2018 values, as this was before my intro to Tesla).

You’re at 265-270 miles full charge now?

270x245 = 66.15 kWh capacity.

66.15/77.8 = 0.85, so you have lost 15%.

Tennesse is a quite warm climate I guess?

Five years at 25C / 90% most of the time gives:
5% for 10 months is 5.5% on the year.

5.5 x square root (5) = 12.3% calendar aging. Throw in cycles for all 110K mi and we probably look at 15% as per your numbers.
(I could try calculating your cars expected degradation / range from a few extra data from you if you like).

I went the low SOC way, still have 492km of 507km after 2 1/2 years. (About 77.5-78 kWh out of 82.1kWh new spec or 80.5-81kWh most common starting value.)

Low SOC like 55% works very fine for me, my car would be at about 5% calendar aging after 5 years, and almost no noticable loss from cycles as it has been at low SOC / small cycles mostly.
(I have 55 supercharging sessions and about 30 full charges in total)

 

[dhrivnak]

To be square, they say “charge below 90%”, thats 50-89%. But that doesnt matter.


I charge daily to 55% and becusae of work and trips higher like 80-100% a couple of times in average each month.

My battery keeps 4mV imbalance even if like in May, only shallow cycles and 55% for four weeks in a row. The cell imbalance do not increase. Ive kept this in track for 2 1/2 years. Its safe.

If you mean the BMS ability to show correct capacity and range it’s mostly very good at this when charging to 50-55%.

As it seems, the people ”needing” a ”BMS Calibration” is mostly people that is nervous over lost range (due to BMS lost track of the capacity) and that seem to happen to *any* car by coincidence etc.


Is it a model 3 longe range dual motor?

It started at 310 miles, which needed 76 kWh energy.
The battery was 77.8 kWh capacity when new, and most often reached above 77.8kWh at that time.

76 kWh/ 310 miles is 245Wh/mile.
(We might need @AlanSubie4Life to confirm 2018 values, as this was before my intro to Tesla).

You’re at 265-270 miles full charge now?

270x245 = 66.15 kWh capacity.

66.15/77.8 = 0.85, so you have lost 15%.

Tennesse is a quite warm climate I guess?

Five years at 25C / 90% most of the time gives:
5% for 10 months is 5.5% on the year.

5.5 x square root (5) = 12.3% calendar aging. Throw in cycles for all 110K mi and we probably look at 15% as per your numbers.
(I could try calculating your cars expected degradation / range from a few extra data from you if you like).


View attachment 950044


I went the low SOC way, still have 492km of 507km after 2 1/2 years. (About 77.5-78 kWh out of 82.1kWh new spec or 80.5-81kWh most common starting value.)

Low SOC like 55% works very fine for me, my car would be at about 5% calendar aging after 5 years, and almost no noticable loss from cycles as it has been at low SOC / small cycles mostly.
(I have 55 supercharging sessions and about 30 full charges in total)

View attachment 950045

No I am at 265 mile at a 90% charge. My last 100% charge was 297 on a 310 mile battery. So I am at 5% loss less than you with more than double the range and miles. I believe the graph clearly states the results are at a 90% charge level. It is the mileage most days with the charge level set at 90%.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

76 kWh/ 310 miles is 245Wh/mile.
(We might need @AlanSubie4Life to confirm 2018 values, as this was before my intro to Tesla).

My last 100% charge was 297 on a 310 mile battery.

Pretty sure given VIN this is LR RWD, so this is 234Wh/mi.

So 10.7%. (234Wh/mi*297mi/77.8kWh)

Not 297/325 or 297/310, of course.

69.5kWh I assume SMT would roughly show.

Very good in any case.

 

[dhrivnak]

Pretty sure given VIN this is LR RWD, so this is 234Wh/mi.

So 10.7%. (234Wh/mi*297mi/77.8kWh)

Yes an early LR RWD. 239W/mile gives me my rated range.

 

[AlanSubie4Life]

Yes an early LR RWD. 239W/mile gives me my rated range.

No the rated line is at 239Wh/mi.

So that means you need to use 234Wh/mi. (5Wh/mi less than the line, as is traditional for whatever reason.)

(This is easily verified.)

You’re at about 69.5kWh, not 71kWh; if you had SMT that is what it would say within about 0.5kWh.

66.4kWh usable.

Can use energy screen method as well if you want.

 

[AAKEE]

I believe the graph clearly states the results are at a 90% charge level.

Yes I missed that (So used with all graphs showing range at 100%)

Would you be interreseted in helping me with trying your cars data in my formulas?

Inputs needed;

-Location/average temp:
-Manufacturing month or purchase month
-Do you have a garage or is it parked outside?
-Charging level (most common)
-What SOC (charging level) do you have after a normal day
-When do you charge? Daily (?), at what time does it start
-Odo reading (12K miles?)
-lifetime average consumption

 

[inigoml]

@AAKEE , for your investigation :

-Location/average temp: 25° C
-Manufacturing month or purchase month: August 21
-Do you have a garage or is it parked outside?: Garage
-Charging level (most common): 55% (first year, 70%)
-What SOC (charging level) do you have after a normal day: 40%
-When do you charge? Daily (?), at what time does it start: Each 2 days. Charge at work (10:00 AM)
-Odo reading (12K miles?) 53.000km. Battery swap at 18.000km
-lifetime average consumption: 180Wh/km

- Model 3 LR Performance (82kWh)

 

[Konicom04]

our M3P that is at around 12K and 6 months old shows 2.3% battery degradation already ( Tessie APP)

Is this what people are experiencing ?
Not really complaining, just curious and maybe a bit worried

 

[Apprunner]

our M3P that is at around 12K and 6 months old shows 2.3% battery degradation already ( Tessie APP)

Is this what people are experiencing ?
Not really complaining, just curious and maybe a bit worried

You lose about 5% in the first year. Slows dramatically thereafter.

 

[KenC]

Both Tesla and I say it is fine to regularly charge to 90%. If you only charge to 70% or less the battery pack is unable to to balance and that WILL result in a loss of range as range is pegged to the weakest brick. And by doing this I have only lost 5%, after 5+ years and 110,000 miles. So far better than your predictions. View attachment 950037

That's good! I charge to 60%, and SMT says my imbalance is 6mV, and my range is still 310miles. 76.8kWh out of 77.8kWh, after 4 ½ yrs and 50k miles.

 

[AAKEE]

@AAKEE , for your investigation :

@AAKEE , for your investigation :

Did you get a new battery, or a refurbished?
Whas the swap after about 1 year?

Hard to calc on these numbers.

You hould be around here if the battery hadn’t been swapped or if you did get a used battery that was close in age to the original.
Should be a about 490km range.

 

[inigoml]

Did you get a new battery, or a refurbished?

New one.

Whas the swap after about 1 year?

9 months with around 18.000km. So new pack is 35.000km and one and a quarter year old.

Hard to calc on these numbers.

You hould be around here if the battery hadn’t been swapped or if you did get a used battery that was close in age to the original.
Should be a about 490km range.
View attachment 950190

It was around 490km this winter. Now in summer it has gone down to upper 70s (478km). And NFP is at 76kWh. Started dropping as soon as temperatures recovered here in Spain. In April scaled up to 485km after a trip (100 to 5% SOC). Tomorrow I will go out for vacations and probably range will recover.

 

[Candleflame]

just FYI my battery failed today. Battery was at 440km rated range for the last year. then 2 days ago teslafi noted it was now 420. Today car woke up and told me max charge reduced etc and new rated range 406 extrapolated.

A quick scan with SMT showed that a cellpack in one module seems to be out of balance with the rest of the pack. (around 100mV).

Did a service request - not too displeased with this as my battery has had quite a bit of degradation from the start.