Please report back on how that came out. I'm having the same problems and my kid politely declines the trunk seats now. I'll have the rear window tinted to see how far that gets me.
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Please report back on how that came out. I'm having the same problems and my kid politely declines the trunk seats now. I'll have the rear window tinted to see how far that gets me.
Excellent! I hope we get some traction on this issue. My kids don't like sitting back there either. 3m crystalline installed here too. I've resorted to using a 12v fan to circulate the air.
Just how bad is the heat in the rear facing seats, now that it's almost July?
I know this has been discussed, and even the latest article from Consumer Reports complains about the heat in the rear facing seats. This issue is the only thing keeping me from releasing my reservations from on-hold, and at this point it's either wait until next year's Model S design refresh (that Elon hinted will improve the vent system), or just bite the bullet and choose to live with it.
We'd use the rear facing seats for occasional car pooling with kids, so it's not a huge deal, but I've read some stories of the seats being practically unusable in the summer, even with ceramic tint on the rear window.
I'm posting this with the hope of getting more current feedback from people who have the rear seats, not that it's almost July. Is it really that bad, on say the typical 80s, somewhat humid Chicago day? We typically drive around with windows and sunroof open, except on the freeways or when the heat is unbearable.
And, I'm curious whether the exterior car color makes a difference - was originally going with the blue, but am now leaning toward silver so it doesn't get as hot.
Thanks for any input.
I know this has been discussed, and even the latest article from Consumer Reports complains about the heat in the rear facing seats. This issue is the only thing keeping me from releasing my reservations from on-hold, and at this point it's either wait until next year's Model S design refresh (that Elon hinted will improve the vent system), or just bite the bullet and choose to live with it.
We'd use the rear facing seats for occasional car pooling with kids, so it's not a huge deal, but I've read some stories of the seats being practically unusable in the summer, even with ceramic tint on the rear window.
I'm posting this with the hope of getting more current feedback from people who have the rear seats, not that it's almost July. Is it really that bad, on say the typical 80s, somewhat humid Chicago day? We typically drive around with windows and sunroof open, except on the freeways or when the heat is unbearable.
And, I'm curious whether the exterior car color makes a difference - was originally going with the blue, but am now leaning toward silver so it doesn't get as hot.
Thanks for any input.
Todd Burch
14-Year Member
Don't know about the other stuff (don't have the rear facing seats), but I know for a fact that the car color has virtually ZERO effect on the cabin temperature in the sun. Please don't base your color pick based on this!
I live in VA. Tends to get decently hot/humid here. I was worried about getting black leather. Glad I ended up taking the risk, as with my ceramic tint it's perfectly bearable in the midday sun.
Hello everyone! I am new to this forum but not new to the issues with heat rejection especially with vehicles lacking proper rear AC ventilation. I work for a Tint shop here in SoCal and have see many Tesla Owners among other vehicles come in with the same issue. The Air Recirc that the MFG suggest helps but it can only do so much. Tinting the rear part of the vehicles also helps but can only do so much. 3m crystalline if a good film but there are other films out there that work better for about the same price or a bit more.
I joined this forum because I believe knowledge is power and I would like to share what knowledge I can with you to empower you to make good decisions when it comes to tinting your vehicles.
40% is a nice shade but not dark enough even with Crystalline to really be effective. The main issue 3m has is that they measure there films at an off axis of 60degrees which hypes up there numbers when compared to just about every other mfg out there. So no ... 3m is not the best. I would recommend something from llumar, Formula One or Spectra photosync. A Combination of films sometimes proves to be very effective. Ill give you an example. I had someone with a AudiA7 sport back similar large rear glass like the Model S do a layer of dark 15% Pinnacle from Formula One to the back half of the car with a 30 up front. Then I layered the whole car with Air80 from llumar from the windshield to the sunroof to the back that was already tinted with the dark ceramic film. This proved to be a pretty lethal combo. When I told this to one of my first Tesla customers with the panoramic sunroof he was eager to try it out. The result was phenomenal and seemed to have solved the heat issue. Now is this a 100% solution ... I would not say it is. The flaw with any film is that it blocks up to a certain % of heat and the type of heat can vary from one area to another. Here is a little cut and paste to help explain further
"Solar radiation from the sun is divided into 3 components; visible light we can see, and infrared and ultraviolet rays which we can only feel. As solar radiation strikes a piece of glass, window film acts as a “sunscreen” to block harmful UV rays as well as regulates the levels of heat and light passing through the glass. The amount of heat and light rejected is all dependant on the type of window film selected" ..source Johnsonwindowfilms.com
As you can imagine the type of heat we get here in SoCal compared to lets say Nebraska. Here we have very dry direct heat compared to the muggy humid heat of Nebraska. Here in Socal we need a combination of a good reflective film along with a good ceramic film to more effectively block out the strong solar energy we are exposed to. I am sure some may have questions by now so I will hush myself up and see what questions you may have and how I can help.
Alex
I joined this forum because I believe knowledge is power and I would like to share what knowledge I can with you to empower you to make good decisions when it comes to tinting your vehicles.
40% is a nice shade but not dark enough even with Crystalline to really be effective. The main issue 3m has is that they measure there films at an off axis of 60degrees which hypes up there numbers when compared to just about every other mfg out there. So no ... 3m is not the best. I would recommend something from llumar, Formula One or Spectra photosync. A Combination of films sometimes proves to be very effective. Ill give you an example. I had someone with a AudiA7 sport back similar large rear glass like the Model S do a layer of dark 15% Pinnacle from Formula One to the back half of the car with a 30 up front. Then I layered the whole car with Air80 from llumar from the windshield to the sunroof to the back that was already tinted with the dark ceramic film. This proved to be a pretty lethal combo. When I told this to one of my first Tesla customers with the panoramic sunroof he was eager to try it out. The result was phenomenal and seemed to have solved the heat issue. Now is this a 100% solution ... I would not say it is. The flaw with any film is that it blocks up to a certain % of heat and the type of heat can vary from one area to another. Here is a little cut and paste to help explain further
"Solar radiation from the sun is divided into 3 components; visible light we can see, and infrared and ultraviolet rays which we can only feel. As solar radiation strikes a piece of glass, window film acts as a “sunscreen” to block harmful UV rays as well as regulates the levels of heat and light passing through the glass. The amount of heat and light rejected is all dependant on the type of window film selected" ..source Johnsonwindowfilms.com
As you can imagine the type of heat we get here in SoCal compared to lets say Nebraska. Here we have very dry direct heat compared to the muggy humid heat of Nebraska. Here in Socal we need a combination of a good reflective film along with a good ceramic film to more effectively block out the strong solar energy we are exposed to. I am sure some may have questions by now so I will hush myself up and see what questions you may have and how I can help.
Alex
I live in VA too, and I have a black interior. I did tint all my windows (including the Pano roof) so I can't really say what it would be like without the tint. With it, it's VERY cool. The leather never gets warm much less hot.
In my opinion, the rear facing seats are basically not usable at all on a hot summer day for all but the briefest of trips - I cannot tell you what to do, but if you complain loudly to Tesla that this is what's holding up your purchase-- that may add to the chorus of voices that really does get some action from Tesla sooner rather than later.
Adding complex multiple layers of tint might help, but this really starts adding a lot of extra cost, and for a solution that is far from perfect at the end of the day... and if that's really what's necessary to help improve the situation, isn't this something that Tesla should do at the factory?? Then it could be built right into the glass (like the panoramic roof.)
Again hopefully we will get some real action now that Elon is aware of it...
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Well it's the legal limit here - so not much more I can do...
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OK let me correct myself. According to http://www.tintlaws.com/laws/GA/ it's actually 32%
However, I'm not the type of person who likes a really dark tint.
In fact, the only reason at all that I got tinting was to try and solve the rear heat problem.
I want visibility to be optimal.
This is helpful. As I have mentioned in other threads, I went with a 30% ceramic tint, and it helped but it is also not a 100% solution.
I might bite the bullet and buy some cheap 12V or battery powered fans for drives of over 30 minutes or so.
Update:
Tesla service had my car for a week, investigating this issue while I was on vacation. They said:
1. They verified I had installed one of the suggested window tinting options.
2. They topped up my AC coolant, which was slightly low.
3. They mentioned that there was some back and forth with the CA Tesla engineers which were apparently comparing the logs on my car with the logs of other cars and occasionally asking for more data.
At first they wanted to keep my car even longer and give me a loaner- and I suggested that they might want to return my car and just monitor from the field (as they would get better real world data anyway, as opposed to my car just sitting at the service center.) My car was returned on Saturday.
I did see the Tesla corporate email go out as well on July 3 that addressed the problem. However, it did nothing other than suggest the same old line that has been suggested, albeit with a little bit more detail.
I am still hoping Tesla will come up with a *real* solution to this problem. I get the impression that Tesla does not want to admit this is a design flaw as that could hurt them down the line. On the other hand, the longer they let this go without some kind of serious action taken, the worse the pain will be as more and more new owners run into the same issue.
I feel like I am out $1500 for rear seats that are basically unusable, plus another $500 or so for premium window tinting that I never would have bought if not for this issue. I still would have bought the car, but not the rear facing seats and not the window tinting if I had known about these issues in advance. I think its fair to warn new purchasers of the car that the rear facing seats are not for serious use.
I wish Elon would take his cross country trip in the heat of the summer, sooner rather than later. I think he would discover, pretty much right away that the two unlucky boys that have to sit in the back will be complaining endlessly (if not occasionally suffering from borderline heat exhaustion) especially when driving through the more humid hot areas of the country, such as Atlanta, or Charleston.
I would like to see a disclaimer when the option is selected on ordering the car, something to the effect of
"Rear seats are not designed for use in hot climates and should only be used for short trips."
That might be excessive- who knows, maybe the rear facing seats are just fine in the fall and winter. I haven't had a chance to really experience it at that time because I received my car on May 7.
Tesla service had my car for a week, investigating this issue while I was on vacation. They said:
1. They verified I had installed one of the suggested window tinting options.
2. They topped up my AC coolant, which was slightly low.
3. They mentioned that there was some back and forth with the CA Tesla engineers which were apparently comparing the logs on my car with the logs of other cars and occasionally asking for more data.
At first they wanted to keep my car even longer and give me a loaner- and I suggested that they might want to return my car and just monitor from the field (as they would get better real world data anyway, as opposed to my car just sitting at the service center.) My car was returned on Saturday.
I did see the Tesla corporate email go out as well on July 3 that addressed the problem. However, it did nothing other than suggest the same old line that has been suggested, albeit with a little bit more detail.
I am still hoping Tesla will come up with a *real* solution to this problem. I get the impression that Tesla does not want to admit this is a design flaw as that could hurt them down the line. On the other hand, the longer they let this go without some kind of serious action taken, the worse the pain will be as more and more new owners run into the same issue.
I feel like I am out $1500 for rear seats that are basically unusable, plus another $500 or so for premium window tinting that I never would have bought if not for this issue. I still would have bought the car, but not the rear facing seats and not the window tinting if I had known about these issues in advance. I think its fair to warn new purchasers of the car that the rear facing seats are not for serious use.
I wish Elon would take his cross country trip in the heat of the summer, sooner rather than later. I think he would discover, pretty much right away that the two unlucky boys that have to sit in the back will be complaining endlessly (if not occasionally suffering from borderline heat exhaustion) especially when driving through the more humid hot areas of the country, such as Atlanta, or Charleston.
I would like to see a disclaimer when the option is selected on ordering the car, something to the effect of
"Rear seats are not designed for use in hot climates and should only be used for short trips."
That might be excessive- who knows, maybe the rear facing seats are just fine in the fall and winter. I haven't had a chance to really experience it at that time because I received my car on May 7.
I don't know many companies who would admit a design flaw. Unfortunately this is something that is going to have to be settled by the NHTSA or lawsuit after someone suffers heat stroke while sitting in the jump seats. Tesla cannot address this issue without adding vents to the far rear, which would be a huge and costly retrofit for current vehicles. If you want some kind of resolution from Tesla - minimally a refund of your $1,500 - you need to make a lot of noise, email John Blankenship with your complaint as well as your suggested resolution. In my opinion this is a serious health and safety issue that should be taken seriously, so please escalate this to the executive management team and demand some action.
I agree that *most* companies would not admit that, but Tesla has shown itself several times recently to react quickly to mistakes and to make things right when they are wrong. I'm hoping for this again.
I am not mad enough to start a lawsuit-- I voiced my concerns to them and they are still "investigating" the issue. I am hoping they will do the right thing. In regards to lawsuits, I am much much more worried about the brake pedal accelerator issue (reported here http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/11986-Model-S-Brake-amp-Accelerator-Pedal-Positions), which almost caused an accident for me personally, and actually did cause someone to rear end a van recently... That seems like a much worse safety concern to me. I am not aware of anything at all being done about that, although I have reported it to Tesla multiple times (including directly to Elon via twitter and email.)
I think you're doing the right thing. I wasn't suggesting that you sue Tesla, but if their investigations don't yield the results you had hoped for, it may be time to escalate the language to let them know you are serious. I know this may be frowned upon here, but I would mention going to Consumer Reports, the NHTSA and the media. I'm sure you will get Tesla's attention. Any negative press right now - especially anything relating to safety - would be a huge blow to them. I'm not saying to take it that far, but the mere suggestion may get you results.
Hey there… I'm actually taking delivery in August, but I didn't order the jump seats (no kids). Have you considered trying a really dark limo tint w/ IR blocking? In my opinion, Tesla is guilty of some misdirection if you check their Model S Features page, click on Styling and scroll down to the pano roof section. The illustration makes it look like the trunk windshield is also made of this special heat-blocking glass. But clearly it isn't.
Model S Features | Tesla Motors
Update, I've talked to my local Tesla service manager. He assured me that this issue is being very actively worked on by the engineers in CA right now. There was some question as to whether my tint was really 3M crystalline or not. Although they took my car to an authorized 3M installer who looked at the tint and said it definitely looks like 3M crystalline tint, that installer said there was no way to know for sure.
So Tesla concluded that they would pay to have my tint removed and re-installed. I thought that was ridiculous. I talked to my own installer, also a 3M authorized installer (one of the best from what I can gather) and he said you can prove it is 3M crystalline because it's the only tint that shows red when you spray water on it. The service manager agrees and is relaying the info to Tesla. My installer also offered to have us meet at his shop with a 3M rep that could explain more about it and show us how it really is 3M crystalline tint. Not sure if Tesla will want to do that or not, but I think we can prove pretty conclusively that it's 3M tint.
Anyway. The whole issue is moot in my opinion. If you simply look at what Tesla is recommending to fix the problem, logic will prevail. On a really humid day, running AC at full blast with re circulation turned off will continuously draw in fresh new *very humid* air. Which will severely impact the performance of the AC system. This is why for maximum AC you would normally turn on recirculation so that the system is not working so hard to dehumidify the air. Now, that doesn't work either because then you basically get no air flow in the back at all and it becomes very hot indeed in the back.
I have seen many claims here of people who have gotten the tinting done and claimed that fixed the problem cold (pun intended.)
On the other hand I've heard other claims of people who have gotten the tinting done and claimed that it has helped only a little bit.
I think a lot of it depends on how hot and humid it really is outside and how sensitive the individuals riding in the back are to the heat as well.
I believe I live in one of the most humid parts of the country, and especially with all the rain we have been getting lately it's even worse than usual.
I would like more owners to please comment on whether Tesla's recommended solution is working for you or not.
Other people have commented that there is nothing Tesla can really do about it. I don't believe that either. I think there are many things that can be done to fix the problem. I also have faith that Tesla will come up with an adequate solution.
Thanks.
So Tesla concluded that they would pay to have my tint removed and re-installed. I thought that was ridiculous. I talked to my own installer, also a 3M authorized installer (one of the best from what I can gather) and he said you can prove it is 3M crystalline because it's the only tint that shows red when you spray water on it. The service manager agrees and is relaying the info to Tesla. My installer also offered to have us meet at his shop with a 3M rep that could explain more about it and show us how it really is 3M crystalline tint. Not sure if Tesla will want to do that or not, but I think we can prove pretty conclusively that it's 3M tint.
Anyway. The whole issue is moot in my opinion. If you simply look at what Tesla is recommending to fix the problem, logic will prevail. On a really humid day, running AC at full blast with re circulation turned off will continuously draw in fresh new *very humid* air. Which will severely impact the performance of the AC system. This is why for maximum AC you would normally turn on recirculation so that the system is not working so hard to dehumidify the air. Now, that doesn't work either because then you basically get no air flow in the back at all and it becomes very hot indeed in the back.
I have seen many claims here of people who have gotten the tinting done and claimed that fixed the problem cold (pun intended.)
On the other hand I've heard other claims of people who have gotten the tinting done and claimed that it has helped only a little bit.
I think a lot of it depends on how hot and humid it really is outside and how sensitive the individuals riding in the back are to the heat as well.
I believe I live in one of the most humid parts of the country, and especially with all the rain we have been getting lately it's even worse than usual.
I would like more owners to please comment on whether Tesla's recommended solution is working for you or not.
Other people have commented that there is nothing Tesla can really do about it. I don't believe that either. I think there are many things that can be done to fix the problem. I also have faith that Tesla will come up with an adequate solution.
Thanks.
I didn't get rear facing seats for several reasons, not the least of which is I thought they were a gimmick to allow Tesla to make a marketing claim (7 passengers). They have always felt like an afterthought to me and this overheating/ventilation issue confirms that. It's not surprising that this is coming up. Good luck to you those of you that have them, I hope Tesla comes up with a reasonable solution.
While this is obviously a problem they failed to foresee in development (see also: hot door handles), it seems unlikely to me that it represents the kind of flaw that would lead to a recall or lawsuit. It is unpleasant to expect something to perform a certain way and be disappointed, but I can't imagine any legal obligation on Tesla's part to ensure that the back seats can be maintained below a certain temperature in all conditions.
They may well address this and other issues in later versions of the car, but I think people are holding Tesla to an unreasonable standard when they expect every perceived shortcoming to be fixed and retrofitted to their cars. Caveat emptor.
They may well address this and other issues in later versions of the car, but I think people are holding Tesla to an unreasonable standard when they expect every perceived shortcoming to be fixed and retrofitted to their cars. Caveat emptor.
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