Rented 85kw for 3 days during Super Bowl.. Opting NOT to buy

[Mario Kadastik]

Ok, for those claiming that you couldn't own this car as the sole car in a region that is cold or doesn't have plenty of superchargers, then I'm a counter example. I'm in Estonia with a Model S that has a single charger pre-fix i.e. limited to about 9kW charging. The CHAdeMO adapter is now finally starting to ship so maybe I can start charging at 30-40kW once it arrives some time this year. But ... I've owned the car now for 15 months (almost perfectly spot on as I took ownership on 3rd of December 2013) and the closest supercharger is either 2000km by land or an overnight ferry to another country + 100km. Last January there were weeks of -20C and so on.

Yet it's my only car... I've driven 30 000km with it and I charge at a public charging point maybe once a month (though bound to be more now that I took a teaching assignment in a city 200km away). 330-380km (winter-summer) of real world range is without any real planning or worry. Anything above that for a round trip and I do indeed just need to think how the charging will be done, but it's not necessarily a showstopper. I've driven 1500km in a weekend (dog show in southern Lithuania) and it wasn't a big hurdle, just stayed overnight in Latvia in both directions and was nice and fresh every day. I've not had to cancel any trips or rent a car or anything. At worst I've had to look up the closest charger and plan for some extra time because of lack of CHAdeMO and dual chargers (difference of 40km/h charging vs 110km/h vs 200km/h). So buying the car now with the CHAdeMO adapter basically available it's not really an issue having the car as a sole use car unless you really take very long roadtrips at random and often. If you do, then indeed might want to wait until superchargers are around, but I'm planning to go visit Tilburg with friends as they pick up their P85D's later this month. That'll be a 3500km return journey nicely covered by superchargers (taking the ferry to Stockholm). The times they are moving fast as I think there were 0 superchargers in EU when I bought the car and next year there is supposed to already be one even in Estonia...

 

[Rheazombi]

Good for you. This doesn't work for everybody - and they shouldn't be shot because of it.

Didn't say for EVERYBODY. if anyone was making blanket statements about car drivers it was you. I believe you used the term "you" in the general sense, not directed at any poster. Many many people who live in places with epic winters or no superchargers manage just fine. Just because some people might feel inconvenienced at "planning ahead" doesn't mean others are so lazy. Not ever driving an ICE ever again, paying for gas, or smelling fumes more than makes up for spending two seconds looking at plugshare or your nav, FFS.

 

[Krugerrand]

People will learn. People will change. Resistance is futile.

 

[sandpiper]

But that wasn't your point. The first quote is what you wrote, which indicates that the Tesla won't work as the only car for the reader, which in my case, is me.
And I am telling you that not only does it work, it works very well.

I agree it won't work for everyone. I suspect it works for a lot more people than you think it does.

Valid point. I edited my point to say "many folks", rather than "you"

- - - Updated - - -

Didn't say for EVERYBODY. if anyone was making blanket statements about car drivers it was you. I believe you used the term "you" in the general sense, not directed at any poster. Many many people who live in places with epic winters or no superchargers manage just fine. Just because some people might feel inconvenienced at "planning ahead" doesn't mean others are so lazy. Not ever driving an ICE ever again, paying for gas, or smelling fumes more than makes up for spending two seconds looking at plugshare or your nav, FFS.

The general hostility here is very disappointing. The OP was a potential customer, who determined that the car/network is not ready for his purposes. Rather than listening and taking the feedback constructively, some folks go off on offensive rants. Does anybody think that insulting the OP encourages people to consider Tesla? It reminds me of the childish Apple/Android debates forever taking place between 14 year olds on tech blogs. We should be better.

 

[KDIceBergSlim]

Oh dear, caught red handed!

I also smell some serious BS in the OP's post. I'm also keen to know who rents them?

I also want to add I specifically rented this vehicle 3 months in advance of the Super Bowl..

Forget the game (its just entertainment for 4 hrs) it's all about the festivities leading up to the game..

And somebody else said.. Why would you rent while the game is on? I already returned the car 9AM yesterday morning..

 

[Krugerrand]

The general hostility here is very disappointing. The OP was a potential customer, who determined that the car/network is not ready for his purposes. Rather than listening and taking the feedback constructively, some folks go off on offensive rants. Does anybody think that insulting the OP encourages people to consider Tesla? It reminds me of the childish Apple/Android debates forever taking place between 14 year olds on tech blogs. We should be better.

I'm not sure the OP ever was a potential customer. Regardless, he came to a Tesla enthusiasts forum to 'review' a product and its network that he doesn't actually understand. People here actually know the real life limitations of the Model S. I'd say he got off rather lightly.

Insulting him (I think his own attitude brought some of it on) has nothing to do with his current or future consideration of purchasing a Tesla. Illogical. This forum is not Tesla. Point being, there are lots of people who own (randomly picking...) Fords that one may not like and that doesn't stop anyone from purchasing a Ford.

I understand you wish for people here to behave a certain way. My guess; not going to happen.

 

[mikeash]

I agree that the hostility is disappointing. We should be better than this. Educate rather than attack.

That said, I don't find it surprising. The original post contains a bunch of statements that indicate a lack of understanding (e.g. home charging not comparing to superchargers, implying that Tesla prioritizes 0-60 times over range), are exaggerated (e.g. setting up acceptable home charging makes the cost "skyrocket"), or are just plain wrong (400MPG). I'm sure these are honest mistakes, but it's just human nature to assume that these problems are deliberate misinformation.

 

[Zythryn]

Valid point. I edited my point to say "many folks", rather than "you"

- - - Updated - - -



The general hostility here is very disappointing. The OP was a potential customer, who determined that the car/network is not ready for his purposes. Rather than listening and taking the feedback constructively, some folks go off on offensive rants. Does anybody think that insulting the OP encourages people to consider Tesla? It reminds me of the childish Apple/Android debates forever taking place between 14 year olds on tech blogs. We should be better.

Thank you for making the correction. Again though, it is your opinion, not a fact. More accurately would be "some people".
The hostility is, I suspect directly a result of you and the OP making sweeping generalizations about the car.
We have heard these many times before and undoubtedly will continue to hear them.

When I talk with other owners at local events, many of them are not early adopters.
You get many people who just love the car and have driving patterns such that the Model S fits all their needs.
They love the safety, the tech, the convenience and the performance.
For those without the ability to charge overnight, or with only one car when they frequently need more than 200 miles in a day, making it work can be a challenge.

Since driving a pair of Model S, I have spent less time planning out my fuel stops than for any gasoline car I ever owned.

 

[jerjozwik]

im amazed that a persons first ev experience can be so incredibly different than my own. especially when their first experience is with a car that can provide 220 miles of charge free driving.
my two glorified golf carts can only manage a realistic 80 miles of range. even with such a low number i am absolutely won over by electric propulsion. so much so that i regularly choose driving the electric cars over the supercharged miata which the wife grudgingly named "the mistress."

having read the OP's story, my takeaway is that they are were not at all prepared for what they chose to do. much like automotive journalists that get an EV to review for a week or so, they dont have a charger at home. this is a MASSIVE requirement. imagine renting a macbook pro for 3 days but not having anyway to charge it. you would come back saying it was great, but by the end i just kept getting worried the battery would run out and i would loose all my work. then jump on the macforums and post about how the computer is too fast and the screen is too bright. you would run into the same resistance your finding on this thread.

...i think that came out in a coherent way. still early.

 

[sandpiper]

I'm not sure the OP ever was a potential customer. Regardless, he came to a Tesla enthusiasts forum to 'review' a product and its network that he doesn't actually understand. People here actually know the real life limitations of the Model S. I'd say he got off rather lightly.

Insulting him (I think his own attitude brought some of it on) has nothing to do with his current or future consideration of purchasing a Tesla. Illogical. This forum is not Tesla. Point being, there are lots of people who own (randomly picking...) Fords that one may not like and that doesn't stop anyone from purchasing a Ford.

I understand you wish for people here to behave a certain way. My guess; not going to happen.

Alright... then don't be better. It's no skin off of my back. But I reserve the right to be disappointed that I see the same behavior here that I would expect from a bunch of children fighting over the merits of iPhones. Signing out.

 

[KDIceBergSlim]

I agree that the hostility is disappointing. We should be better than this. Educate rather than attack.

That said, I don't find it surprising. The original post contains a bunch of statements that indicate a lack of understanding (e.g. home charging not comparing to superchargers, implying that Tesla prioritizes 0-60 times over range), are exaggerated (e.g. setting up acceptable home charging makes the cost "skyrocket"), or are just plain wrong (400MPG). I'm sure these are honest mistakes, but it's just human nature to assume that these problems are deliberate misinformation.

i wouldn't even say I was misinformed.. I knew allot about this car.. I've watched 20 or more walkthroughs of the vehicle.. I already had the fricking manual on my iPad for crying out loud..

My fiancé literally gets annoyed every time I talked about the car.. She wanted to buy the thing for me up until we saw what the true livability of it really is.. She even shockingly agrees with me (A Latina and Native American, boy do I have my hands full.. But she takes care of her man). She agreed the car still leaves a little to be desired..

Bottom line is.. 400 miles on a tank vs 240 (really 220) isn't comparable.. The p85D might get 275, but your still leaving 125 miles to be desired on the table.. I don't care how superior the technology and the interior (sunroof, keyless entry, Touch screen,Smooth quiet drive,immaculate handling,etc.. ) In the end the question you ask : " Does this work or does it still need more work? "

maybe in 3 years after I swap out the next car.. Tesla will have improved the battery and the supercharger network will be conveniently expanded..

 

[richkae]

Wow.. Sparks fly when you give an honest review.. My credit score will be at 720 in another 3 months.. No need to really show my progress their.. And i will easily up my income to $100,000..not really worried there either..

Y'all on here trying to clown me but it is what it is.. Not even tripping.. Brushes dirt off shoulder..



but.. Anyway..

why would I lie about renting a Tesla? Jesus.. $299 a day, had it 8AM Friday morning until 9AM Sunday morning.. Rented from Enterprise Rent-a-car Exotics in a Scottsdale.. $697.00 total.. Plus $500 deposit I got back..

Again I'm in love with the car.. I'm just being a reviewer after having had the chance to be in it a few days.. And driving it around town (Scottsdale/Glendale/Laveen/Phoenix) and to the super charger.. Etc.. Etc..

Who said I bought a charging hub for 3 days? Again.. Sparks fly..lol..

Im a Phoenix local..

I drove the car quite a bit for 48 hours w/ my lovely fiancé.. Mall trips.. Dinner dates.. Lunch dates.. Down town.. To Buckeye.. So even if I'm not taking it to work to and from home.. Still.. The battery was running low.. Considerably fast.. But again.. We are talking about cruising around casually and jumping on off freeways.. Like the 101, 10, and the 51..

My take on the battery is just.. Saying I wasn't impressed and I only talked " range anxiety " because it is somewhat true after experiencing it that's all...

Ahh welll back to the money.. :love:

These are meaningful details that you could have included in your first post. Did you exclusively charge at the supercharger? That would color your experience.
You waited for 4 months and then tried to extract maximum value from your 48 hour rental. It was a very limited way to inform about owning a Tesla. You are missing out on the primary convenience of an EV, leaving home fully charged. Range anxiety does exist, like many other forms of anxiety. You can succumb, avoid or conquer them.

I would strongly recommend against saddling yourself with a debt burden approaching your gross yearly income - for any vehicle.
Not only is it a poor financial decision, you are putting far too much of your resources into one object and may have unrealistic expectations.
I recommend a higher level of debt anxiety - invest your money instead.

 

[KDIceBergSlim]

These are meaningful details that you could have included in your first post. Did you exclusively charge at the supercharger? That would color your experience.
You waited for 4 months and then tried to extract maximum value from your 48 hour rental. It was a very limited way to inform about owning a Tesla. You are missing out on the primary convenience of an EV, leaving home fully charged. Range anxiety does exist, like many other forms of anxiety. You can succumb, avoid or conquer them.

I would strongly recommend against saddling yourself with a debt burden approaching your gross yearly income - for any vehicle.
Not only is it a poor financial decision, you are putting far too much of your resources into one object and may have unrealistic expectations.
I recommend a higher level of debt anxiety - invest your money instead.

Yes. Exclusively at the Supercharger in Buckeye Saturday early morning at 5:00 am to avoid Super Bowl traffic and have ample time to Cruise in the day/nighttime..

I feel like If I'm going to love something it's gonna happen at that moment.. I don't need 30 days to figure out if I love it..I think I will go this route for sure no matter what I end up with.. Rent it without a sleazy sales guy or chick trying to schmooze me..

Just like with my fiancé.. I knew from the night I met her it was all over (knew I would propose to her instantly and did after 1 year) and I wasn't letting her get away..

My money is my money.. I don't think my finances or how I get the car or a car matters..

 

[Yuri_G]

i wouldn't even say I was misinformed.. I knew allot about this car.. I've watched 20 or more walkthroughs of the vehicle.. I already had the fricking manual on my iPad for crying out loud..

My fiancé literally gets annoyed every time I talked about the car.. She wanted to buy the thing for me up until we saw what the true livability of it really is.. She even shockingly agrees with me (A Latina and Native American, boy do I have my hands full.. But she takes care of her man). She agreed the car still leaves a little to be desired..

Bottom line is.. 400 miles on a tank vs 240 (really 220) isn't comparable.. The p85D might get 275, but your still leaving 125 miles to be desired on the table.. I don't care how superior the technology and the interior (sunroof, keyless entry, Touch screen,Smooth quiet drive,immaculate handling,etc.. ) In the end the question you ask : " Does this work or does it still need more work? "

maybe in 3 years after I swap out the next car.. Tesla will have improved the battery and the supercharger network will be conveniently expanded..

You charge the car every night at home and have 200+ miles of range everyday. 14-50 plugs cost less than $1k to install in a garage. This isn't brain surgery.

 

[Rheazombi]

Alright... then don't be better.* It's no skin off of my back.* But I reserve the right to be disappointed that I see the same behavior here that I would expect from a bunch of children fighting over the merits of iPhones.* Signing out.

Your comments are more passive-aggressive than the majority of comments in this thread.

Ok, for those claiming that you couldn't own this car as the sole car in a region that is cold or doesn't have plenty of superchargers, then I'm a counter example. I'm in Estonia with a Model S that has a single charger pre-fix i.e. limited to about 9kW charging.

Thank you Mario for sharing your experience in Estonia. I'm impressed how well you've made the car work for you. Hopefully Estonia will be crawling with superchargers someday. You deserve it

 

[liuping]

In the end the question you ask : " Does this work or does it still need more work? "

You seem to focus only on tank range, which is not that important once you reach the 200+ mile range threshold.

The most important question any EV buyer needs to ask (assuming they can charge at home) is "Do I drive more than the EV's range in a single day frequently?" and "If so, is it easy to recharge (say at work) to go go as far as I need".

If the answer is yes, an EV is right for you. If not, it's probably not.

For most people 240 miles each day is far more than they drive. So it works for them. If you drive 400 miles in a single day frequently, and EV is probably not for you.

 

[DavidM]

@ KDIceBergSlim - Thanks for your perspective. I'm glad you had an opportunity to drive the car for 3 days. It sounds like you used it quite a bit during that time.
I'm assuming that since you rented the Model S, that you were lacking one important thing all owners happen to have. "The ability to charge overnight at your home." As an owner, you would use your home charger 90% of the time, and have little to no concern for charging at public stations or superchargers. As a matter of fact, you would only ever use a supercharger if you were leaving Phoenix to go on a road trip (because it would be pretty tough to drive 265 miles in a day, without leaving town).

I drive my Model S quite a bit, but my range almost never drops below 150 miles, mainly because I have the opportunity to top it off every evening while I sleep. I agree, that without home charging at 240V, you'll worry a lot more about range.

 

[cmaster]

With my subcompact car with 200 miles/tank, at 100 miles or half a tank left, I would fill up. I would do the same with the Tesla. No different. Don't understand the big deal with range. With a gas car, you want to fill up if it's half a tank so the fuel pump will last longer.

Same logic would apply to the Tesla. But, some people rather go further than 50% of available miles left to recharge at the super charger. From my view it's not different than operating and maintaining a full tank of gas on the subcompact car.

 

[Saghost]

Bottom line is.. 400 miles on a tank vs 240 (really 220) isn't comparable.. The p85D might get 275, but your still leaving 125 miles to be desired on the table.. I don't care how superior the technology and the interior (sunroof, keyless entry, Touch screen,Smooth quiet drive,immaculate handling,etc.. ) In the end the question you ask : " Does this work or does it still need more work? "

It seems like you're still thinking in the gas car paradigm - after 220/240/275/400 miles, I need to find a fuel source and wait around while the car refuels.

For most people, the EV experience isn't like that. Most of us have a place to charge at home, and so plugging in the car when you get home is just part of the standard routine, like closing the door when you go inside or plugging in your smart phone at night - and taking a similar amount of time.

As long as the car's range is more than your typical commute, you'll never have to worry or think about it except for road trips. For me, this is true even with my 3 year old Volt with it's whopping 35 mile EPA range - because my commute to work is only 20 miles roundtrip.

Road trips are an issue, but Tesla has mostly mitigated it with the Superchargers; most people typically take breaks every few hours anyway, and if you take those breaks at Superchargers, the car can mostly recharge while you eat.

What are your normal driving habits?
Walter

 

[Gizmotoy]

I think this thread is a pretty clear illustration of Tesla's education trouble going forward.

In an ICE you're mainly concerned with how far the car can go until you need to take it back to the gas station. This is ingrained into the mind of nearly every driver in the US. In an EV, however, you're mainly concerned with having enough charge for that day. 400 miles to a charge is a ton of wasted energy (hauling around all those heavy unused batteries) if you have the typical daily 60 minute round trip commute. The fact that an EV starts every day with a full "tank" is surprisingly hard to wrap your head around, and that's something Tesla is going to struggle with as they launch the Model III.

And note, this isn't to imply that EVs are suitable for everyone. Certainly those with extreme commutes or whose work requires regular car trips beyond the car's range would find them frustrating. The vast majority of the driving population would find an EV suitable to their needs, though.