Replacement for Model S/X?

[HitchHiker71]

I’d love to hear an argument for the order of the following being added to the S…

1. 48v
2. Megacasting
3. Structural battery pack

What else is an obvious, big addition?

I think you're on the right track here IMHO. Tesla has been busy driving down production costs with the above listed manufacturing technologies and techniques. The core S/X platforms are aging now, and while they are a sunk cost (hence their ability to lower costs and still make profits on these older models), I think Tesla may eventually do the same thing that other brands have done - design and build a new luxury platform for a luxury sedan and CUV/SUV. The cost savings by using gigacasting and a structural pack would allow Tesla to use higher quality interior materials and sound deadening along with offering premium features like the air suspension for example, but would basically require a complete ground up effort from both a design and manufacturing perspective. This would also result in Tesla being able to price these models at lower price points compared to the competition - hopefully garnering more market share in the process - especially in the luxury segments.

This obviously has not been Tesla's focus to date - so it'd be a shift - and that's why I said may above. If Tesla somehow actually manages to get FSD into the real world - i.e. not beta - real world autonomous driving I mean - and starts producing the robotaxi - I'm not sure at that point they would have any real motivation to produce a line of luxury vehicles as TaaS would start to take hold - but that's really more theory right now than reality, so only time will tell. If FSD doesn't make the leap into real autonomous driving, then I think something along this line would actually be possible within the next few years. The newer manufacturing and alpha design build techniques allow Tesla to take a platfrom from the drawing board to early production in roughly 18 months now - so I'm doubling that number with the three year guestimate.

We are MY LR owners and while I currently have a CT reservation, I'm not sure I really want or need another pickup type vehicle - I'm seriously considering a MX LR or MXP instead - since they can still tow 5k lbs and really all I need to be able to tow is a small flatbed trailer for yard refuse and moving furniture and other household stuff around on occasion. Worst case I can just rent a uHaul box trailer and tow it when needed. I used to be somewhat of a speed demon earlier in my life and I have to admit the MXP (Plaid) is attractive with this in mind.

 

[Tiger]

There's no current incentive for the Plaid, so what you really mean is $62.5 for the XLR and the same $80K you said for the Plaid.

If Plaid MSRP is within the incentive limit, it will get incentive also. So with incentive plaid will be $72.5K.

 

[Tiger]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746394482839372275

https://twitter.com/x/status/1743417925019619585

 

[sorka]

If Plaid MSRP is within the incentive limit, it will get incentive also. So with incentive plaid will be $72.5K.

Good luck with that. I'd estimate a 0% chance of either of those happening.

 

[FreqFlyer]

I’d love to hear an argument for the order of the following being added to the S…

1. 48v
2. Megacasting
3. Structural battery pack

What else is an obvious, big addition?

1. Tesla's lead car engineer has stated in a couple of videos that 48V architecture is not coming to a present platform. Too much rework, one has to design 48V from the beginning on a new platform. So that is why it is on the CT and upcoming new projects.

2. IMO, would yield a stiffer platform which leads to a better ride, and less work for the suspension. It's what I found comparing an M3 vs Tx made MY. You know that solid ingot feeling one gets driving a Porsche on a track...........stiff platform. Something Tesla brags about regarding the new CT. Tesla has the numbers, I bet the M3 platform is much stiffer than MS .

3. Look at #2. Tesla's latest battery tech is going to 4680 form factor, not the Panasonic 18650s. However, the aged MS platform can only use the 18650 size.

IMO, Tesla does not want to continue to be in the high-end market. And as more high-end players start to debut their new vehicles in this segment, its harder for Tesla to compete and just as important gain or keep the market's attention.

There have been rumors over the years of an all-new MS, the last credible one some years ago, had the MS moving the 3/Y platform which would have made all the sense in the world..................if one wanted to compete in that segment. My opinion continues to be for Tesla to cancel the MX and come up with a three-row volume vehicle that blows the Kia EV9 out of the water. Add two doors to the upcoming mythical Roadster, call it the MS, and print money. Use the open-box production method to increase margins on a low-volume product. Again, my humble opinion.

One more thing. A Model S in Ultra Red with Arachnid Wheels is a beautiful vehicle to behold. Beautiful. With that stated, Tesla can nip and tuck those Model S bones and call it all new every couple of years, but in reality, those are still some old bones.

 

[FreqFlyer]

One more thing, about a year or two ago, Franz was on Ride the lightning podcast and stated he walks past the Model S every day at work. What an odd statement, is there a prototype of an extensive redesign or new gen that was in the works? Take what you will from that.

 

[dsm363]

One more thing, about a year or two ago, Franz was on Ride the lightning podcast and stated he walks past the Model S every day at work. What an odd statement, is there a prototype of an extensive redesign or new gen that was in the works? Take what you will from that.

They might have one of their design prototypes there or something I would guess.

 

[dsm363]

1. Tesla's lead car engineer has stated in a couple of videos that 48V architecture is not coming to a present platform. Too much rework, one has to design 48V from the beginning on a new platform. So that is why it is on the CT and upcoming new projects.

2. IMO, would yield a stiffer platform which leads to a better ride, and less work for the suspension. It's what I found comparing an M3 vs Tx made MY. You know that solid ingot feeling one gets driving a Porsche on a track...........stiff platform. Something Tesla brags about regarding the new CT. Tesla has the numbers, I bet the M3 platform is much stiffer than MS .

3. Look at #2. Tesla's latest battery tech is going to 4680 form factor, not the Panasonic 18650s. However, the aged MS platform can only use the 18650 size.

IMO, Tesla does not want to continue to be in the high-end market. And as more high-end players start to debut their new vehicles in this segment, its harder for Tesla to compete and just as important gain or keep the market's attention.

There have been rumors over the years of an all-new MS, the last credible one some years ago, had the MS moving the 3/Y platform which would have made all the sense in the world..................if one wanted to compete in that segment. My opinion continues to be for Tesla to cancel the MX and come up with a three-row volume vehicle that blows the Kia EV9 out of the water. Add two doors to the upcoming mythical Roadster, call it the MS, and print money. Use the open-box production method to increase margins on a low-volume product. Again, my humble opinion.

One more thing. A Model S in Ultra Red with Arachnid Wheels is a beautiful vehicle to behold. Beautiful. With that stated, Tesla can nip and tuck those Model S bones and call it all new every couple of years, but in reality, those are still some old bones.

I think they'll ditch the Model X soon too. Hopefully not the Model S but never know.

There is value in having a halo sedan that's bigger than 3. If they could design a platform to share with sedan, new SUV, delivery van...etc, maybe it might work. I don't know if any of that is possible or practical.

 

[ucmndd]

I think they'll ditch the Model X soon too. Hopefully not the Model S but never know.

By all accounts the X is selling better than the S, so I kinda doubt that.

And they really need both to justify keeping either one around given the production numbers. The S is not a viable platform without a complementary SUV to share parts and engineering with.

 

[Krash]

…Tesla's lead car engineer has stated in a couple of videos that 48V architecture is not coming to a present platform. Too much rework, one has to design 48V from the beginning on a new platform…

I agree that they aren’t going to add 48v without significant other changes.

…Tesla does not want to continue to be in the high-end market. And as more high-end players start to debut their new vehicles in this segment, it’s harder for Tesla to compete and just as important gain or keep the market's attention.

Maybe we’re talking semantics, but whether Tesla wants to or not, Tesla is not leaving the high end market. Tesla will protect the high end market from competition to prevent competitors easing into their mainstream market profits. They’ll lose money on the next Roadster, but they still have to make one eventually.

…Add two doors to the upcoming mythical Roadster, call it the MS, and print money…

This. Clearly the plaid was the test mule for the roadster. Hopefully Tesla doesn’t just stretch the roadster and add those doors. I didn’t appreciate when Porsche did that.

…Tesla can nip and tuck those Model S bones and call it all new every couple of years, but in reality, those are still some old bones.

And speaking of Porsche, does the current 911 have old bones? Did previous versions? Beautiful never really goes out of style, but I feel Porsche has definitely made some other design missteps over the last 60 years. Hopefully Franz has a long tenure and subtle changes.

 

[tallypwner]

The new Panamera looks great. It's not radically different just a ground up redo and better in every way except for no wagon now. Tesla just needs to make a new Model S and X. Similar style, just ground up redo with all the new tech available. I'd even suggest they don't try to make a track pack version of the new Model S and save those special versions for the roadster.

I'm sticking by my desire for:

• Better build quality and reliability and repair process/costs
• Easier ingress/egress
• 20 inch wheel option or 21 inch forged wheel option(I've broken MS wheels and it sucks a lot)
• More sophisticated suspension and rear wheel steering
• 500 lbs lighter, 500+ miles real world range
• No goofy gimmicks like yokes and touch screen transmissions, humans like stalks and screens in front of them not just to the side.
• Make all other screens optional, I don't want passenger screens everywhere
• Continue to make all the autonomous stuff optional, don't want any of it
• More back seat room and less frunk/trunk space with ability to fold flat seats for plenty of extra storage
• Better quality interior/cup holders
• No capacitive touch buttons anywhere especially on the steering wheel. Actually premium physical buttons
• Better quality speakers and microphone. I have the hi-fi package and it..sucks. It's all treble and bass with no midrange
• Apple car play and more software partners, keep the Google maps
• FM radio..
• More reliable and easier to swap 12v batteries
• Faster charging at superchargers
• Less assumptive automatic stuff and more customization
• Move the B pillar back a hair so I can rest my arm out the window
• Ditch the pop out door handles for traditional
• Camera for rear view mirror
• Either a much longer battery/drive unit warranty or drastically reduce repair time and cost on those items
• More color options, not more grey/silver/black/white options
• Comfort seat option as well as sport seat options. I want my ventilated fat guy seats with no bolstering
• Rear wheel drive option that isn't just a short range version

 

[DerbyDave]

Tesla S wagon

 

[tallypwner]

Tesla S wagon
View attachment 1009242

Looks good to me. Give it a 1 inch lift from factory on some 20 inch forged rims! make an extended wheelbase version as a Model X

 

[Tiger]

The new Panamera looks great. It's not radically different just a ground up redo and better in every way except for no wagon now. Tesla just needs to make a new Model S and X. Similar style, just ground up redo with all the new tech available. I'd even suggest they don't try to make a track pack version of the new Model S and save those special versions for the roadster.

I'm sticking by my desire for:

• Better build quality and reliability and repair process/costs
• Easier ingress/egress
• 20 inch wheel option or 21 inch forged wheel option(I've broken MS wheels and it sucks a lot)
• More sophisticated suspension and rear wheel steering
• 500 lbs lighter, 500+ miles real world range
• No goofy gimmicks like yokes and touch screen transmissions, humans like stalks and screens in front of them not just to the side.
• Make all other screens optional, I don't want passenger screens everywhere
• Continue to make all the autonomous stuff optional, don't want any of it
• More back seat room and less frunk/trunk space with ability to fold flat seats for plenty of extra storage
• Better quality interior/cup holders
• No capacitive touch buttons anywhere especially on the steering wheel. Actually premium physical buttons
• Better quality speakers and microphone. I have the hi-fi package and it..sucks. It's all treble and bass with no midrange
• Apple car play and more software partners, keep the Google maps
• FM radio..
• More reliable and easier to swap 12v batteries
• Faster charging at superchargers
• Less assumptive automatic stuff and more customization
• Move the B pillar back a hair so I can rest my arm out the window
• Ditch the pop out door handles for traditional
• Camera for rear view mirror
• Either a much longer battery/drive unit warranty or drastically reduce repair time and cost on those items
• More color options, not more grey/silver/black/white options
• Comfort seat option as well as sport seat options. I want my ventilated fat guy seats with no bolstering
• Rear wheel drive option that isn't just a short range version

From Tesla's mission perspective, those are all unnecessary proposals, except maybe stalks and door handles. Most of these are available as aftermarket mods for those willing.

 

[SoCal Buzz]

The 2021.5+ S is still one of the best looking sedans in the market. Wide, sticky tires. Wide body. Refreshed lights. The Plaid remains a legit ev rocket and will be for some time.

I agree with that and think the S body design is beautiful and ageless like a 911. If Tesla had not gone with yoke, removed stalks and changed horn to a button, I think the benefits of Refresh with new interior, wide stance and great range / performance would have been more positively received. The Tesla UI is also better and more integrated than most. However, the hubris of removing things that work fine (parking sensors, user friendly controls, rain sensor) in the name of efficiency is frustrating.

I still love the new S and can’t find anything to replace it, despite some aggravations. The Audi e-Tron GT is contender for me, but not until they up the range a bit and are more cost competitive with S.

 

[dsm363]

By all accounts the X is selling better than the S, so I kinda doubt that.

And they really need both to justify keeping either one around given the production numbers. The S is not a viable platform without a complementary SUV to share parts and engineering with.

I think they need a new platform that they can share Model S and an SUV with the Model X or something else.

 

[Crutonius]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1746394482839372275

https://twitter.com/x/status/1743417925019619585

Clearly it's because the people are demanding that the Y join it's brethren in removing all stalks and the top of the steering wheel.

 

[ICUDoc]

can’t find anything to replace it

This is the issue. It is very imperfect , but still the best.

 

[tallypwner]

I've got about 3 years left on my battery warranty and so that's the timeline I'm giving myself to find a new car. I really like mine, when it works, but it's unreliable and the service experience is a nightmare.

I just want Tesla to do what every other automaker has always done and make a new updated version of their existing vehicle that fixes the mistakes and doesn't change the good things. It's almost too simple for Tesla to pull off. They just can't help me throw a pinch of cilantro and ghost pepper in everything to make a statement when most folks just want a cheeseburger. I say add the wacky stuff to the Roadster and exhibition car show builds and go conservative with the standard models.

It's always odd how big and heavy the Model S feels for how little passenger room there really is. They need to sort of reverse that perception. Megacasting, 48v architecture, 800v or whatever, less copper, less materials, better quality glass, more efficient next gen structural batteries. There's so many things they could do to greatly improve the S and X.

I guess part of it for me is that Tesla tends to announce new products like 5-8 years ahead of release and there isn't even a rumor of a new S or X yet meaning the likelihood of a new S and X in the next decade are slim.

I think the 3 and Y will continue to sell pretty decent but those declining numbers are scary. I've always said Tesla was 5-10 years ahead of everyone and as long as they keep that lead they can do whatever wacky stuff they want to. Now I think they've been caught up with and there will be pain ahead unless some conservative down to earth measures are taken. BYD seems to have won the China market. The West seems to be getting bored of existing models and I don't think people are chomping at the bit for a $30k mini tesla thing. People just want midsize crossovers and trucks with no gimmicks at a reasonable price.

 

[Tiger]

Good camo:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1747351327833833607