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Reports that Chevrolet Bolt is a threat to Model 3 are deeply uninformed
- Thread starter jbcarioca
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Do not confuse internet EV enthusiast blogs and forums with public opinion. They are not the same.
Nor confuse realistic business models with 'forward-looking' marketing. Again, not the same.
GM instantly jumped into 2nd place in the US EV market against the bigger companies, and is only bested by Tesla. Whatever a 'marketing problem' is, is sure beats whatever Nissan, Toyota, VW, BMW, MB, Fiat, etc, has come up with in 7 years.
Tesla absolutely is #1 in EV marketing by a long stretch in the US market, which is the most important market to GM. Europe successfully washed their hands of GM, and now can focus (har) on killing Ford more effectively. Flavors of Airbus.
But so far it appears that GM is #2 in US marketing of EVs. Which is a failure I suppose, but GM is not sitting still. Probably 260 L5 autonomous Bolts are on public roads this AM testing, over 50% of GM's Global Powertrain Division is working on non-ICE projects this AM. GM is operating the largest EV battery laboratory in the US this AM.
Interesting perspective. I see a lot of Tesla bashing over there, but again, it is a vocal minority.
There are far more people here that are supportive of the Bolt than critical of it.
In 7 years of working/speaking with numerous Tesla employees from regional to local, I have never heard once any such statement.
I have heard often that anything learned on a forum needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Which is very good advice for any forum.
Another interesting note is that car sales are way down overall, as we just saw with July's auto sales reports.
GM made the Bolt a CUV (shape) for a reason, with that reason likely being they knew CUVs were becoming more and more popular.
It could be Tesla is selling the wrong type of car at the moment, but Model 3 plans are set in stone, so they have to hope the Tesla image overcomes the fact that car sales are crashing.
brucet999
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This in a period of slumping auto sales - US sales down 2.3% in first half of 2017, according to Edmunds
As much as GM and its supporters may hope otherwise, the chances of that happening are zero/zip/nada/zilch.
In fact, Elon said yesterday that people should have "zero doubt" that Tesla will reach a production rate of 10,000 per week some time next year (500,000 Model 3s per year rate). Tesla Model 3: Elon Musk has ‘zero doubt’ about 10,000 units per week in 2018, corrects reservation tally With 455,000 reservations in the bag and numbers growing every week there is no question the demand is there.
Will be interesting to see what all the GM promoters on social media/TMC will be saying when Tesla is selling more than 500,000 Model 3s per year and the Bolt is selling at 10% or less than that rate.
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Assuming GM wants to supply to meet the Ampera E demand and Bolt demand begins to rise substantially as Model 3 begins to be widely received, both of which just might happen, GM is faced with their planning assumptions of ~50,000 per year with LG. LG will be the constraint for GM because LG is deeply committed for several manufacturers. However, LG presumably can expand fairly quickly. If they can I'll be surprised in Bolt will sell less than ~100,000 per year. The GM problem will be mostly getting their costs down enough so they can make money selling Bolts.
Despite my personal aversion to the car, many potential BEV buyers are already GM customers. When major GM markets, such as Brazil, begin to encourage BEV's the Bolt size and specifications will be very attractive. The price will need to drop substantially, which means LG must have lower prices to GM. They'll be ready, I think.
For that optimistic view to hold GM will need to be serious about charging descriptions, de-ICE their promotional materials and insist on dedicated dealer support. They did that decently for Saturn, although they then starved the brand for product. This time might be different. Further, their deal with PSA might just end out positive in the BEV arena.
The only real question is how long it will take for GM to take this market seriously, if it ever does.
Right, we all know that Elan always comes through on his promises. Do I think that Tesla will produce 10,000 cars in one week by the end of December 2018, maybe, just so he can say they did it. That still doesn't mean they'll sell 100,000 M3s next year. I really hope they do, but that doesn't take anything away from the Chevy Bolt.
It will also be interesting to see what people will be saying when we're all riding on unicorns. "the chances of that happening are zero/zip/nada/zilch."
I hope you are right and that the Bolt eventually sells more than 100,000 per year. Perhaps by that time Tesla will have additional gigafactories up and running (including in Europe and China) and will be selling 1M Model 3s per year and even more Model Ys.
Bluntly, you're missing the point. if Tesla does succeed that alone will induce other manufacturers to be more serious, including perhaps GM. Any increased GM volumes will depend on LG, not GM. GM has tons of production capacity for cars, but zero for batteries and electrical drivetrains. Thus, the question is really whether their tier one, LG, can supply for increased volume.
be assured that once the market accepts any high volume BEV (e.g. Model 3) the market will open for lots of BEV's. At the moment that means Bolt, if LG is capable and GM is willing.
Couldn't the same be said of the Chevy Bolt? Wouldn't it be great if both cars are successful?
Sure, if Gm were taking the Bolt as a serious effort to gain market acceptance for BEV's. Their product positioning, promotion process and production plans all show it to be a compliance effort. The car deserves better than that.
InsideEVs is reporting that GM is showing consumer focus groups a BEV Buick Encore small crossover using the Bolt's powertrain. They typically do this when they are refining marketing concepts for cars that are 1-2 years from delivery.
2017 Buick Encore: Compact Luxury SUV | Buick
The existing ICE Encore is slightly larger than a Bolt and has an upscale interior and sells around 7,000 units a month. It seems reasonable to assume that an EV Buick Encore would also be sold in China. GM CEO Mary Barra was quoted a few months ago as implying there would be multiple upcoming cars based on the Bolt's powertrain so it makes a lot of sense for a Buick Encore to be one of them.
GM and LG have been very quiet about scaling up their battery manufacturing but they must be planning for it.
GM already had a compliance car: the Chevy Spark. They didn't need to develop a 238 mile range vehicle for compliance. Regardless, why do GM motives matter? The more EVs are sold the better, so we should all be cheering on all EV efforts. Assuming motives is unproductive and completely subjective. The reality is GM has one motive: make as much money as possible.
A company is not a brochure, it's a team of people. Mary Barra is the Team Leader. She speaks for the Bolt EV. It's her baby. When you say Bolt and GM, you are actually saying Bolt and Mary Barra's Team.
So essentially, Mary Barra and her team are liars? She said electromotive powertrains and autonomy are big areas of concentration for GM. She wasn't referring to 'forward looking' business models, she was referring to this morning's work assignments of hundreds of technicians, engineers, and scientists. Or is it you question her basic character based on gender? Don't feel bad if that is the case, there are a lot of folk who would rather her stay in the kitchen making sandwiches. Personally, I think she has among the best levels of honesty and intelligence in the automotive industry, but without all the self-promotion common to the industry. And she's smarter than the average bear.
But I am curious. Find an outright marketing lie that Mary Barra has heavily publicized. I can't seem to find one. I mean something said to the public, known by the speaker to be false at the time, but said anyways to help sell product.
According to Consumer Reports, not only is it a threat to the Model 3, apparently its a threat to the S 75D too.
Chevrolet Bolt Sets Consumer Reports' Electric-Vehicle Range Record
C'mon Tesla, you're better than this!
Chevrolet Bolt Sets Consumer Reports' Electric-Vehicle Range Record
C'mon Tesla, you're better than this!
And the Model X90D. Makes me wonder if a X 100D would even beat the Bolt in Consumer Reports' testing.
If this is true, this is a good move for GM. They need a Buick badged EV, especially for the Chinese market. This would hit all the right notes (Buick, CUV, EV) for China.
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