[Resolved] My P85 has developed the milling noise and Tesla won't fix it.

[Skotty]

I've always suspected that the power and instantaneous torque of the electric motors might be a problem for some of the mechanical components, and that the mechanicals will need to be beefed up further and/or very low speed power might need to be moderated. This could be the cause of the drive unit problems and also potentially the cause of early Roadster transmission problems. However, this hypothesis is just a gut feeling and completely without evidence.

 

[gavine]

I notice the term "failure" being used a lot. A noisy drive unit is not the same as a failure. I would think that the actual failure rate is extremely low. Maybe call it drive unit "issues" or something less catastrophic? If your ICE engine developed squeaky belts, you wouldn't call it an engine failure, would you?

I have recently developed the milling sound and I don't love it, but I don't plan on bringing it in to get looked at until it gets much worse. I'd rather wait until they have a permanent fix. For now, I can live with it. It's not terrible and I don't feel like I'm going to break-down or anything like that.

 

[Vitold]

I notice the term "failure" being used a lot. A noisy drive unit is not the same as a failure. I would think that the actual failure rate is extremely low. Maybe call it drive unit "issues" or something less catastrophic? If your ICE engine developed squeaky belts, you wouldn't call it an engine failure, would you?

I have recently developed the milling sound and I don't love it, but I don't plan on bringing it in to get looked at until it gets much worse. I'd rather wait until they have a permanent fix. For now, I can live with it. It's not terrible and I don't feel like I'm going to break-down or anything like that.

Certainly it is possible it's normal wear and tear under specific conditions, however, no matter what the definition, noise should not be there because Tesla is a luxury car not a pickup truck.

 

[kort677]

I notice the term "failure" being used a lot. A noisy drive unit is not the same as a failure.

While it may not be a CATASTROPHIC failure it is a performance failure, I will not accept a malfunction like this to persist.
It took me a bit of squawking but I did have Tesla replace the drive unit on my car.
FWIW: I fully support those who feel the same way and are demanding action from Tesla to make their cars "right"

If your ICE engine developed squeaky belts, you wouldn't call it an engine failure, would you?

I would call it a failure, a failure of that belt, and I would have the offending part repaired or replaced as soon as possible.
my "toys" must operate and perform at levels of perfection, anything less is not acceptable, and I will always takes whatever steps are necessary to maintain that level of perfection.

 

[gavine]

I'm not saying they shouldn't fix it. They SHOULD. What I am saying is that we shouldn't call it a drive unit failure....that makes it sound like everyone is breaking-down on the road and needed a tow. Not that case at all.

 

[ecarfan]

@gavine, I think the point you are making is a reasonable one. To say that a noise somewhere in the car represents a "failure", is often not accurate. In your example of the squeaky belt, neither the engine nor the belt has failed. In the case of the Model S, the milling noise does not represent a failure of the car to be drivable, but the car is no longer operating as new. I agree with the general intent of this thread that noise that was not present when the car was new should be investigated and addressed if the noise is loud enough to be objectionable. Of course there is no hard and fast rule about how loud "objectionable" is. It is a subjective judgment.
Certainly one should not toss around words like "failure" to casually.

my "toys" must operate and perform at levels of perfection anything less is not acceptable and I will always takes whatever steps are necessary to maintain that level of perfection.

You are seeking a level of performance and quality that does not exist in the real world.

 

[Max*]

It's not a failure, it's a design flaw.

 

[Vitold]

It's not a failure, it's a design flaw.

EDIT: Are you saying that the noise is nature of the design? It could be, however from what we know it's rather hard to make such claim. I think clang noise could be a result of design tolerances, and gear wear but milling noise is rather a mystery at this point.

 

[Max*]

EDIT: Are you saying that the noise is nature of the design? It could be, however from what we know it's rather hard to make such claim. I think clang noise could be a result of design tolerances, and gear wear but milling noise is rather a mystery at this point.

I don't have a deep enough understanding of why the noise is starting. What I do understand is that if Tesla has to keep refurbishing drive units, due to noise, and putting a shim in, those are patches which are not fixing the underlying problem. So to me that implies there is an underlying problem = design flaw.

Just like the door handles. The first version (which protruded completely out) kept breaking, so they released a second version which doesn't protrude all the way out to fix the design flaw. It helped, but it's still not perfect. So I forsee either a 3rd version coming out, or them to do what they do with the DU and just replace it when it breaks.

 

[Cyclone]

I don't have a deep enough understanding of why the noise is starting. What I do understand is that if Tesla has to keep refurbishing drive units, due to noise, and putting a shim in, those are patches which are not fixing the underlying problem. So to me that implies there is an underlying problem = design flaw.

Just like the door handles. The first version (which protruded completely out) kept breaking, so they released a second version which doesn't protrude all the way out to fix the design flaw. It helped, but it's still not perfect. So I forsee either a 3rd version coming out, or them to do what they do with the DU and just replace it when it breaks.

I'm with Max on this one. It could be an undetermined or unsolved design flaw, but I view it as a design flaw. The difference in my car between the DU with the milling sound and the current one is significant. I never actually thought of my car as nearly silent until it got the replaced drive unit.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

There's failure and then there's failure. While the noisy drive units are not technically failing, having a noisy drive unit on a $100,000 car is definitely a failure of the car to meet reasonable expectations. Indeed, a drive unit becoming noisier over time is, in itself, a failure because the unit is not functioning properly. Nobody wants a noisy car, especially when we know that the noise is abnormal and indicative of a problem somewhere. I don't think a problem needs to rise to the level of an outright hardware failure in order to be perceived as a failure to the owner to deliver on the car's promise.

 

[Vitold]

According to this thread Model X is not using SKF bearings - since Tesla used to(?) use SKF perhaps they switched due to failures?

 

[gavine]

According to this thread Model X is not using SKF bearings - since Tesla used to(?) use SKF perhaps they switched due to failures?

According to that thread, the "electric motor bearings" are made by Koyo, however, the "ball bearings" are made by SKF. Not sure what the difference is. I assumed the electric motor bearings are indeed ball bearings. Perhaps Koyo makes the bearing enclosure but uses SKF ceramic balls?

 

[Soolim]

According to this thread Model X is not using SKF bearings - since Tesla used to(?) use SKF perhaps they switched due to failures?

Your question make sense, but we will never know.:wink: Maybe someone from SKF or Koyo would like to comment?

 

[MTOman]

I had the same problem a few months ago. I had my first DU replaced around 10k miles and around 20k I started hearing it again, but wasn't quite as loud. As time went on it got louder until around 25k everyone started asking what it was and if it was normal, but Tesla said it was within spec. It kept getting worse so I kept bringing it up anytime it was in for service. During my last service appointment at 35k they replaced it again. Such a relief having a quiet car again!!

I was never worried it would fail and leave me stranded, it didn't seem like that kind of problem, but it sure was embarrassing! It became all anyone talked about when they saw they car and that's not what you want or expect with a car like this. In my experience, Tesla will eventually replace your DU but not until it becomes loud enough to turn the heads of bystanders as you drive by

 

[Electric700]

this i don't believe because I just had my DU swapped with a brand new unit (not remanufactured) 6 weeks ago and I have 3k miles on it and it already has started developing the milling noise again.

- - - Updated - - -

it's also worth noting that when this originally started happening to me I went to 3 different service centers before they would swap it. the first two were like 'thats normal' and gave some long spiel explaining that the extreme high power and voltage will cause the components to make that noise over time yadda yadda yadda and it wasn't until i went to a 3rd different service center where they were like 'uh yeah thats not normal and is the milling noise' and have since done 3 DU swaps for this (soon to be 4th DU swap I guess whenever this one gets loud enough to annoy me).

It really does look like they have a design issue that needs to be addressed. Tesla should be notified of this, and you can try contacting [email protected].

 

[Freudianly]

It may be an unsolvable problem with a motor spinning so fast. The only solution would be to increase its size.

 

[ecarfan]

Is there anyone who lives near San Mateo CA on the SF Bay peninsula who has this milling noise who would be willing to meet up with me tomorrow for a few minutes so I could hear the noise? My car does not have it, but I am curious as to what it sounds like after all this discussion. You can PM me. Thanks.

 

[Soolim]

It may be an unsolvable problem with a motor spinning so fast. The only solution would be to increase its size.

Increasing the physical size by going to lower rpm is a gigantic challenge, due to space issue. If the noise is from the ball bearing, possible solution could be magnetic bearing. We used that on turbo blowers of comparable rpm and larger kW.

 

[ZsoZso]

Here is a recording of my DU noise I recorded with windows down in a parking garage so you can really hear it fairly well. I just got a new DU last week and it works great.

Tesla Model S new noise - YouTube

My car started making this noise about a month ago, first it was less noticable, but over time it got worse, and now it is irritating when driving at low speeds in the city. I am waiting for my first annual checkup and I have mentioned this problem to them so they will have a look. Unfortunately, I have to wait a month for the first available appointment...