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Roadster 3.0

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Agreed (but then it wouldn't be "low mileage")!

"low mileage" only matters if you're going to sell. If not, drive and enjoy!

When I sold #609, I could reliably get 160+ miles on standard and 180+ miles on range mode. I could definitely push it to about 200 on range mode driving gently. 609 was also a 2019, with a manufacture date of summer 2009. Battery was replaced under warranty in probably 2012 or 13, so battery was 6 - 7 years old. Had low 20k miles on it. I would have upgraded the battery just to get the extra range, but as we all know, that never came. Saved me some money!
 
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Well, hopefully the won’t remove insulation in good shape. I say that because many have had Gruber or Medlock do insulation upgrades and replacements. Would hate to see all that good insulation trashed for a battery upgrade.
The Service Centers are generally not authorized to dig into the PEM. The reason I was given was that the SCs don't have "approved static workstations" or something like that. The only exception, I believe, is to replace the CIC board when the contacts in the infamous "PEM Fan connector" fry, instead of replacing the entire $10k PEM. Unless they changed their policy for the 3.0 battery, one will very likely get another PEM that has already been reworked along with the battery and any other kit parts. The original one will go back into the pipeline for someone else. What happens from there is the point and question in my comment.

Following this, is there any way to visually inspect one's insulation, without any more disassembly than simply taking the top off the PEM? I forget if the megapole boards are visible, and if so, is the state of the insulation something that can be evaluated by simply looking at it? It's the one "wear" item that I'm most concerned about, and have the least control over.
 
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"low mileage" only matters if you're going to sell. If not, drive and enjoy!

When I sold #609, I could reliably get 160+ miles on standard and 180+ miles on range mode. I could definitely push it to about 200 on range mode driving gently. 609 was also a 2019, with a manufacture date of summer 2009. Battery was replaced under warranty in probably 2012 or 13, so battery was 6 - 7 years old. Had low 20k miles on it. I would have upgraded the battery just to get the extra range, but as we all know, that never came. Saved me some money!

That should have said manufactured in 2009, obviously. Whoops!
 
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I'm surprised that Tesla has already booked me into a local SC for the battery upgrade for mid-July! People were speculating that they could only hand-make 1 to 3 battery packs per month and I asked the rep how many people he had already called and he said he had talked to several people. I don't know if that means people are passing on getting the work done for $29K less deposit, or if they somehow have battery packs and PEMs ready to go.
I am always concerned when my nice pampered PEM and battery boards get swapped for refurbished parts. I know the batteries themselves will be new cells, but all the other electronics may have already had wear and tear, so it will be impossible to know when something might fail and result in a costly repair. I must put myself in Tesla's hands and hope that they can continue to support the car, albeit at a cost to me.
 
Interesting that they have booked you in. Is your ESS bricked? I just brought 609 into Canada. I was very pleasantly surprised to discover the Vancouver Powell street Service Center have an amazing team to support my new acquisition (THANKS MUCH @IslandRoadster !!!) Not long after 609 disappeared into the sunset at Blaine it landed a quarter mile later in Canada. I was gobsmacked at it's beauty and after picking myself up off the pavement drove her straight to the Powell Street shop for her conversion. The next day by 3 pm they had a new kph speedo, Canadian certified immobilizer and daytime running lights done. I'm really impressed with what a great team they are. Apparently they see about 20 different roadsters come in periodically.

Anyways I talked to them about upgrading 609 with the 3.0 package and asked for a quote. A few days later I received the quote...started asking questions and was advised they had to rescind the offer because 609 has a good enough pack to keep me on the road. They have assured me if the ESS becomes a concern then I'd be placed in a queue for an upgrade.

I'm comforted by the fact we seem to have great Tesla support in our part of the world. Kudos to Scott and A.J. at Powell street for helping an old man out!!
 
20210619_104603.jpg
 
They had a km Speedo??

...and they did the Canadian switch in 24 hours!!!

Double-stun!!!o_Oo_O

Mine took 3 days back in 2013.
I wouldn't have expected any SC to accept doing this conversion anymore, because of lack of parts
@Retiredeh , you have a hell of good SC team back West!

...and your picture of speedometer... I had to check mine but I crossed that kilometer number last week, so it all look really familiar!!! :)
 
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Unfortunate news if true:
After playing a 2 week game of text message tag with Tesla Service (where I'd ask a question to the service advisor via text and he'd reword it and forward it on to "the technican" for an answer, then me re-asking the question to get the answer I was actually looking for, it appears that the new 2021 3.0 battery cells have the same chemistry as the circa 2016/2017 era 3.0 batteries.

I still couldn't get an answer as to what, if anything is different now, nor why Tesla stopped doing the 3.0 packs then if they're just now re-starting them again with the same cells/cell chemistry.
 
Unfortunate news if true:
After playing a 2 week game of text message tag with Tesla Service (where I'd ask a question to the service advisor via text and he'd reword it and forward it on to "the technican" for an answer, then me re-asking the question to get the answer I was actually looking for, it appears that the new 2021 3.0 battery cells have the same chemistry as the circa 2016/2017 era 3.0 batteries.

I still couldn't get an answer as to what, if anything is different now, nor why Tesla stopped doing the 3.0 packs then if they're just now re-starting them again with the same cells/cell chemistry.
How confident are you in the answer that you got? Tesla has held on to this information very tightly. This would be the first time that they've released any cell details to anyone who could pass it on to a customer.
 
How confident are you in the answer that you got? Tesla has held on to this information very tightly. This would be the first time that they've released any cell details to anyone who could pass it on to a customer.
Not confident at all.

Will probably go ahead with the upgrade as whether these are better cells than the circa 2016/2017 cells or not, this is the best upgrade option Tesla will ever supply. Maybe there will be a good third party choice at some point.
 
Hello all,

I want to start by stating that I am by no means roadster technically knowledgeable as many on this forum are, but I do read up to stay informed and appreciate that all of you share such great information. This is a long post so please read on as I can use some your expertise.

I have owned 147 for the past 10 years. The last 3 years have seen me wait for a battery replacement after a failure occurred in the original battery and it went dead. I have been on the waitlist since then and have heard a number of stories and promises as I waited for a replacement pack to come. Imagine my excitement when last month I was told it was finally going to happen and a new "3.0" battery was developed and ready to be shipped to my local service center to be placed in my car. It of course came with the same steep $29,000 price tag, but having had a dead battery for 3 years, I jumped at the opportunity.

Reading the prior information posted here, I tried to ask several questions regarding the details on the battery and was told that information could not be shared but that I would expect a 40% increase over my original pack. I mentioned like many others the concern regarding the original 3.0 battery losing range quickly and they said that it had been addressed but could not share more information.

With the need to get 147 back on the road, I agreed and my appointment was set. I had the car towed to the service center and the installation process began. It took about a week to replace the battery and swap out a board on the PEM that was new to support the 3.0 battery (that is what I was told). I also had a TPMS warning issue that took an additional week to resolve that they were able to fix. Finally, yesterday I went to pick the car up. I spoke to the service manager (a prior roadster owner) hoping to get more information on the battery. He could provide nothing other than the added range information. He said he would see what he could find out and let me know. He told me that the displayed range would adjust once I drive it a bit and charge it.

The car was brought around to me and I had my first chance to look at the car. I looked at the display and the battery was charged to a range of 223 miles. I thought that was really low considering everything I have seen online was that the 3.0 was supposed to be closer to 320 miles. I shrugged it off to it being needed to adjust and get fully charged as the service manager mentioned. This is where I wish I was more knowledgeable about looking at the vitals of the car.

I noticed that the badging on the battery unit was not indicative of anything related to the 3.0 version which I thought I saw in prior installs and the car did not have the R80 badge applied on the back. I asked the service rep and she said they had mistakenly left it off and she went into the office and the technician who worked on the car came out and applied it.

I got in the car to drive it home, excited that it was running after 3 years of being inoperable. It has been a while, but I will say that the car did not seem as fast as it used to be and did not have they same torque acceleration that I had remembered. I got home and after several hours of it being parked, I decided it was time to put it in the garage and charge. The battery had dropped to a range of 170 miles after my driving from the service center which is a bit away from where I live. I plugged the car in expecting that it would have a good night of standard charging to get it closer to the 300 mile range.

The plug turned blue and then green. I thought to myself why would it go to green immediately as that is a full charge. I looked at the display and it said charging done. I thought is there something wrong with my cable and charger that it would think it was fully charged at 170 miles? I unplugged it, then plugged it again, same thing. This went on for about 30 minutes (I said I wasn't technical). It was already past the time that the service center was closed. I said, well maybe it is stuck in a setting from the prior charge and I would adjust the charge level to range instead of standard. The carport then changed to yellow and it began to charge.

I let it run for about 40 minutes and came inside to check these forums to see if there was any posts regarding this and then it hit me, this is not a 3.0 battery! This is an original battery pack that I was just charged $29,000 for. The car was showing fully charged at standard because it was already at 80% charged with only 170 miles of range. When I picked it up they had charged it at range mode and my drive had simply brought it back to the 80% level. I entered the service menu of the display and saw that this was the case.

My car display is now showing 190 miles of ideal range at 85% charge. I don't believe this is a 3.0 80kw battery that was installed. This battery has a CAC of 154 at 85%. I am attaching an image of the ESS display information. From what I have read on this forum, the 3.0 batteries all started with a CAC of 210 or greater. Can any of you very knowledgeable individuals confirm what I am seeing? Is there somewhere that would show me the actual battery capacity outside of this screen? I appreciate your help.
 

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@cld, I agree the evidence you report does not seem right. After my 3.0 battery was installed in August, 2016, the reported CAC was 214. Because the 3.0 battery does not fill as far on a standard mode charge, the typical result was 232 miles. The first range mode charge a few days later was 343 miles.
The only alternative explanation that occurs to me is that the service technician did not perform some step to cause the CAC to recalculate. Since it is a calculated value based on parameters measured as the battery is charged and discharged, it is possible that the CAC will adjust upwards as you drive and charge, like the service manager said. In particular, driving a long distance to discharge to a low level would let the algorithm see where the bottom of the battery range really is. However, it does not seem right to leave you with that obligation.
 
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Hello all,

I want to start by stating that I am by no means roadster technically knowledgeable as many on this forum are, but I do read up to stay informed and appreciate that all of you share such great information. This is a long post so please read on as I can use some your expertise.

I have owned 147 for the past 10 years. The last 3 years have seen me wait for a battery replacement after a failure occurred in the original battery and it went dead. I have been on the waitlist since then and have heard a number of stories and promises as I waited for a replacement pack to come. Imagine my excitement when last month I was told it was finally going to happen and a new "3.0" battery was developed and ready to be shipped to my local service center to be placed in my car. It of course came with the same steep $29,000 price tag, but having had a dead battery for 3 years, I jumped at the opportunity.

Reading the prior information posted here, I tried to ask several questions regarding the details on the battery and was told that information could not be shared but that I would expect a 40% increase over my original pack. I mentioned like many others the concern regarding the original 3.0 battery losing range quickly and they said that it had been addressed but could not share more information.

With the need to get 147 back on the road, I agreed and my appointment was set. I had the car towed to the service center and the installation process began. It took about a week to replace the battery and swap out a board on the PEM that was new to support the 3.0 battery (that is what I was told). I also had a TPMS warning issue that took an additional week to resolve that they were able to fix. Finally, yesterday I went to pick the car up. I spoke to the service manager (a prior roadster owner) hoping to get more information on the battery. He could provide nothing other than the added range information. He said he would see what he could find out and let me know. He told me that the displayed range would adjust once I drive it a bit and charge it.

The car was brought around to me and I had my first chance to look at the car. I looked at the display and the battery was charged to a range of 223 miles. I thought that was really low considering everything I have seen online was that the 3.0 was supposed to be closer to 320 miles. I shrugged it off to it being needed to adjust and get fully charged as the service manager mentioned. This is where I wish I was more knowledgeable about looking at the vitals of the car.

I noticed that the badging on the battery unit was not indicative of anything related to the 3.0 version which I thought I saw in prior installs and the car did not have the R80 badge applied on the back. I asked the service rep and she said they had mistakenly left it off and she went into the office and the technician who worked on the car came out and applied it.

I got in the car to drive it home, excited that it was running after 3 years of being inoperable. It has been a while, but I will say that the car did not seem as fast as it used to be and did not have they same torque acceleration that I had remembered. I got home and after several hours of it being parked, I decided it was time to put it in the garage and charge. The battery had dropped to a range of 170 miles after my driving from the service center which is a bit away from where I live. I plugged the car in expecting that it would have a good night of standard charging to get it closer to the 300 mile range.

The plug turned blue and then green. I thought to myself why would it go to green immediately as that is a full charge. I looked at the display and it said charging done. I thought is there something wrong with my cable and charger that it would think it was fully charged at 170 miles? I unplugged it, then plugged it again, same thing. This went on for about 30 minutes (I said I wasn't technical). It was already past the time that the service center was closed. I said, well maybe it is stuck in a setting from the prior charge and I would adjust the charge level to range instead of standard. The carport then changed to yellow and it began to charge.

I let it run for about 40 minutes and came inside to check these forums to see if there was any posts regarding this and then it hit me, this is not a 3.0 battery! This is an original battery pack that I was just charged $29,000 for. The car was showing fully charged at standard because it was already at 80% charged with only 170 miles of range. When I picked it up they had charged it at range mode and my drive had simply brought it back to the 80% level. I entered the service menu of the display and saw that this was the case.

My car display is now showing 190 miles of ideal range at 85% charge. I don't believe this is a 3.0 80kw battery that was installed. This battery has a CAC of 154 at 85%. I am attaching an image of the ESS display information. From what I have read on this forum, the 3.0 batteries all started with a CAC of 210 or greater. Can any of you very knowledgeable individuals confirm what I am seeing? Is there somewhere that would show me the actual battery capacity outside of this screen? I appreciate your help.
I’m no roadster expert but It looks like a 2.0 ess pack which i believe had 155-160 CAC when new. Wow, that‘s a big slide-of-hands from Tesla. Disappointing to see this. I have one of the last 3.0 ESS installed and it had a CAC of 215 ish when NEW and It’s currently at 198. That could help explained the lost in power with the replacement of the PEM board that’s mismatched to the ESS. I had read that they where producing both 2.0 and 3.0 ESS again

Question: will you keep the 2.0 and get refund and reworked PEM or have the 3.0 put in?
 
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@cld, I agree the evidence you report does not seem right. After my 3.0 battery was installed in August, 2016, the reported CAC was 214. Because the 3.0 battery does not fill as far on a standard mode charge, the typical result was 232 miles. The first range mode charge a few days later was 343 miles.
The only alternative explanation that occurs to me is that the service technician did not perform some step to cause the CAC to recalculate. Since it is a calculated value based on parameters measured as the battery is charged and discharged, it is possible that the CAC will adjust upwards as you drive and charge, like the service manager said. In particular, driving a long distance to discharge to a low level would let the algorithm see where the bottom of the battery range really is. However, it does not seem right to leave you with that obligation.
Thanks @slcasner for replying. I guess my question is how would it really jump that much as it won't charge beyond a certain point? Should I run a range charge? I actually had my prior battery for 8 years and never did a range charge. Always standard at 24 amps. It really never degraded from when I got it until the dreaded failure.

@eHorses I don't know what I will do. Waiting until Monday to hear back from Roadster support and the service center. They had mentioned in the 3 year time period of being on the waitlist that they would come up with a replacement pack at the same level as my original. However, my invoice definitely is charged for the 3.0 .

1625950092971.png
 
That sounds like a devious move. What service station was this? I had read that only the mothership could swap the board so they swapped the whole PEM. If they had a previous roadster owner on staff, they would know exactly what the car had, and it does seem like they put a 2.0 knowingly.
Edited: written before the receipt was posted