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S85 vs P85+ ... Is the P+ Worth It at Today's Pricing (Feb 2014)?

Discussion in 'Model S: Ordering, Production, Delivery' started by xza8, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. xza8

    xza8 Member

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    I've spent the past few weeks researching this question on this board and Tesla's board so I've probably read all the S85 vs P85 vs P85+ threads/blog posts but I still cannot decide.

    I'll be relocating to San Jose so I'm not familiar with the roads. I rented a MB CLA when I visited a few weeks ago and I found that it performed fairly well so it would seem that the S85's performance would be more than enough. However, I am fairly young (27 y/o), love to drive spiritedly and currently drive an Audi S5 (0-60 in 5.1 seconds). Although the S5 is fast enough for daily driving, the youth in me wouldn't mind a faster car like a RS5... but then again, I'll be starting a family soon so I will need to calm down. Lastly, I work from home so my time on the road would be very minimal.

    Money is not a big issue for me (and I'm aware of the crazy rear tire replacements) but I would prefer to save my money if it is not worth it because I'm in a volatile industry. The difference in price is $425/month for 72 months (i.e., $30,600).

    Can I take advantage of the P85+ in the San Jose/South San Francisco Bay area?

    I'm going to pass on the P85 because it seems like that much power without the + suspension is asking for trouble. Too bad the S85 does not come in +.
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    This is simply an unanswerable question...what do you mean by "worth it"? Both cars are satisfying, fun, fast and efficient. But if you feel you'll need/want to show off the power and speed, if you think you'll want to go to the track or push the limits cornering on back roads...then the P+ is the way you want to go. For me, it is a rare day I wish I had a P model and even more rare that I push my S85 to its full capability. it's fun to know the power is there, but it's so impractical to use that power in a P85 that it's much more of a 'show off' option than anything you can justify in any objective manner.
     
  3. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    The P85 is plenty fun. Have advantage of being able to rotate tires. It certainly isn't necessary to have that power.
     
  4. Alysashley79

    Alysashley79 Member

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    Sorry. But I have to sort of disagree with you. I don't think the p85 without the + is asking for trouble. I have a grey p85 and don't regret for one second not doing p85+. I LOVE every aspect of my model s.
     
  5. gnelson

    gnelson Member

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    The tire wear on my P85+ is minimal after 8000 mi. If you can afford it, get the P85+. I can't imagine anybody that bought a P85+ has any regrets.
     
  6. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    If the tire costs and additional cost isn't a concern and you want a performance oriented car this is certainly a good way to go. If you just want the additional acceleration off the line and want to change tires less the P85 also works well. I don't think either buyer regrets getting either model.
     
  7. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    I have a P85 because that was all you could get at the time. I have since driven a + and do prefer it. However, if a smooth ride is important to you then don't get the + because you will feel every bump. If handling is more important for you then I would get the +.

    As for stability of the P85, I would not be concerned about that. Early on they had some trouble with improper suspension alignment on some cars (rear toe out = bad!), and that did cause stability issues. With a properly adjusted suspension the car is very stable under acceleration. The handling improvements on the + are really for cornering - and on that front I'd give them a big thumbs up.

    The only other consideration is that the + tires are significantly more expensive.
     
  8. Xenoilphobe

    Xenoilphobe Active Member

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    i have the P85 without the "+" suspension. I love the handling and the acceleration and would recommend it over the S85. Keep in mind I never drove an S just the P, so i was hooked from day one on the P.

    If you are starting a family make sure to get the jump seats in back... my kids are older and I didn't need them, but if you are just starting out, I would get them..
     
  9. spentan

    spentan Active Member

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    I picked up a P85 about 9 days ago now,

    I think its great. Don't have any need for a + and I picked it up at a great price so not too fussed.

    I even keep the steering in comfort mode most of the time, having the P is definitely not mandatory, though it definitely makes it fun to jump into the left lane and zoom past everyone so quickly.

    I've seen a lot of S5s, and S6s playing with me, you can hear their exhausts bellowing on the interstate, while you accelerate quicker than them and straight past them completely silently haha.
     
  10. 100thMonkey

    100thMonkey Member

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    Owned a P85 and later had the opportunity to upgrade to a P85+ without taking too huge a hit. I love the difference, it's quite palpable. I love it even more with 19" wheels in this wet temperate climate. the sure footed feeling, tight handling...something quite different about the way the + handles rapid acceleration, it's much more stable and fun, IMHO. If you can swing it, I seriously doubt you'll regret it. I think of the P+ as what the P was meant to be.
     
  11. Ugliest1

    Ugliest1 S85: "Sparky"

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    ... and I don't regret my S85 one bit, either!!!!
     
  12. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Split the difference and buy a P85 (non-Plus)?
     
  13. simplesolar

    simplesolar Member

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    If you have the money get the p85+, if not S85 with coil spring is a decent alternative. I figure if you go for the P85 might as well get the P85+. Problem with getting the S85 is like your S5, you would always want more down. I hate playing the what if, could have, should of game in my mind so I just get the best.
     
  14. dennis

    dennis P85D

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    #14 dennis, Feb 9, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
    S85 = Audi A6
    P85+ = BMW M5

    I'd steer clear of the P85 because the handling does not match the straight line performance. Just my opinion, having owned a P85 and then upgraded it to a P85+.

    As far as using the performance of the car in the South Bay, you don't need it for the freeways, but there are a lot of fun roads to drive in the Santa Cruz Mountains which are very close by.
     
  15. David Rhee

    David Rhee Member

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    Get the P85+ if you're even questioning whether you should get it. This is from a guy who drives a P! It makes a noticeable difference in handling and stability. And the California weather is perfect for the +! But the P85 and S85 are no slouch either. Just be prepared to budget for all the speeding tickets you'll be getting. :). Model S is such a blast to drive that I often forget how fast I'm going until I see blinking red lights in my rearview mirror. ;)
     
  16. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    #16 lolachampcar, Feb 9, 2014
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2014
    I've chewed on this value equation a bunch along with a reasonable amount of work on the car itself. I ended up with a P+ on P+ front dampers, standard air dampers on the rear and coils all the way around set to my desired ride height. If I were to do it all over again, I may have experimented with a different path. So why?.......

    The S v. P is simply a matter of launch and early acceleration. There is a STUNNING difference between the two cars in this area and only you can make the call if it is worth $10K. There is a difference in sway bars but that might not be so important (see below). I suggest you drive and S and P side by side twice in each car while putting your hand on you wallet as you switch between cars. You should have your answer.

    The handling value equation is a different matter. MS is a heavy car so it is never going to be a 911/458. For me as a daily driver, it all comes down to feel and feel is a personal taste issue. Some people like the air feel of an E63 over the rock solid feel of an M5. I'm in the M5 camp.

    Given my bias, my ideal value would be an 85 (pick S or P per above) lowered on coil springs with wheels and tires of my choosing to minimize weight and maximize grip. I would tend to go the S route on sway bars as I feel the MS' low CoG negates most of the need for sway bars and thicker bars have the unwanted side affect of head snatch (that tossing side to side as you drive over a pot hole or sleeping policeman sideways). The tough part for me is that the front P+ dampers have significantly more bump and rebound damping so I would want them.

    If I had to call the very best balance of value and feel, I'd do an S85 on lowered coils using front P+ dampers. I'd pick the lightest non-forged rims (for cost reasons) and put some nice Pilots on them (the cheaper of the two PSS/PS2). You would have an awesome car. Do not forget to buy a spare rim (or two if you go staggered width for looks) as, unlike OEM rims, aftermarket bits can go out of production leaving you having to buy four rims if you ding one in the future.

    My two plus two cents worth.

    One last note..
    A poster over on TM said the SC replaced four lower control arms on his car as part of a service bulletin and the car feels awesome. Tesla started with the stiffer rear LCAs in the P+ then migrated them to all production. It seems they are not implementing them on cars in the field so you guys with early Ps that squirm like a turd on hard acceleration (like mine did) take heart as it looks like Tesla is going to upgrade your car and fix that issue. Fantastic Company!
     
  17. jerry33

    jerry33 S85 - VIN:P05130 - 3/2/13

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    Whether the S60, S85, P85, or P85+ is worth it depends upon what you value in a car. I really like my S85 and wouldn't spend the extra money for either of the P85 models, but that's a personal decision and really has nothing to do with whether anyone else should get a P Series. However, I'd suggest that if you are getting a P85 you might as well get the P85+ as not getting the + is like a peanut butter, jelly, and banana sandwich without the bananas.
     
  18. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    I don't know. I have the P85 and while the handling might not be on par with M5, if all you want to do is gun it on the occasional on ramp and like being able to rotate your tires to save a little money it makes sense as a compromise. If you are going more for a performance handling car then definitely the + makes sense.
     
  19. xza8

    xza8 Member

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    How's the BMW M5 vs M6? I've never driven a M5 but I've driven my brother's M6 and I honestly prefer my little S5 over his M6. I've also driven his C63 and I also prefer the S5 over the AMG.

    The S85 to P85 is now $13,500 and not $10,000 (although a premium, I don't think it would stop the P85 buyers)... I'm trying to justify the S85 by saying that the $13.5K is just for wicked fast show-off acceleration as I don't care for the painted calipers and the Alcantara headliner would be minimal since I will get the Pano. However, I do want the P85+ to make a good impression for my fiance as she's an ICE believer and loves my Porsche... I use to have the CT200 hybrid and that left her with a bad impression of electric motors.
     
  20. lolachampcar

    lolachampcar Active Member

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    The C63 is a coil spring car.
     

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