I have never understood why rotating the tires saves money? Does it matter financially if you replace all 4 tires at the same time, or replace the two rears more often than the fronts?
S85 vs P85+ ... Is the P+ Worth It at Today's Pricing (Feb 2014)?
- Thread starter xza8
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I have never understood why rotating the tires saves money? Does it matter financially if you replace all 4 tires at the same time, or replace the two rears more often than the fronts?
If you pay someone to install tires then hopefully you can reduce number of trips if you can time things to replace all four tires at one of those trips. The stock tire options from Tesla on the P85+ are also double the P85 tires and don't last as long given softer compound.
darthvdr
Member
Ugliest1
S85: "Sparky"
She hasn't test driven with you in a Model S? I would think that could change her mind. As I learned, a Model S is something you have to *experience* to really understand, and, even a test drive doesn't quite prepare you for how wonderful day-to-day driving is. I'm just sayin'. That's not comparing the S, P, P+ but any version of S to an ICE.
Let her drive it too,
I have been for 3-4 rides in a model s (no US insurance) but nothing compared to driving it myself when I picked up my P85 last week.
@xza8,
Many reasonable responses to your query, don't know what else is left to add for rational discourse. All I've got to offer is anecdote.
My personal experience is this: I had to make the Tesla sales guy understand that I really, really wanted the Plus package. He insisted that it wouldn't make a difference to ordinary driving. I suspected he was right -- and I'm definitely an ordinary driver! -- but he was completely missing the point. Dammit, it's *MY* mid-life crisis and I'm getting every option on the list!(*) One friend, who is a BMW enthusiast and also a Tesla fan, cruelly pointed out to me that the Plus package would be wasted on me, but he'd be happy to take me to the track sometime and show me what could be done with it.
So, I figured, OK, I'm not going to understand/feel much if any benefit, but heck, everyone knows that chicks dig a guy with a Plus package .
Then a couple of months ago I took the car in for a service day to attend to some minor items that had accumulated. The Service Center loaned me a P85. Great car! But I **immediately** felt the difference in handling, especially in the behavior of the rear end of the car, and under acceleration. More recently, I've also experienced my 19" snow tires (Hakka R2s, great tires, with Rial wheels) versus my 21" PS2s (the OEM tires and wheels from Tesla), and WOW, there's another major difference. I now officially miss the 21" performance tire season of the year.
So the happy surprise for me is that the Plus package and 21" wheel combination makes a difference in handling that turns out to matter to me. I also believe that the P85+ with the performance tires is a tad faster off the line than the P85 with 19" tires (but that's an unquantified feeling, I have no measurements). I'd be hard put to buy a P85 at this point, having experienced the P85+. Better not to try the Plus at all. Of course, there IS a serious difference in cash outlay between the two variants, which can easily trump all other considerations. And my wife notices all the chicks eyeing my Plus, so that's a benefit, too.
Alan
(*)What a great sales experience to have a sales representative try to configure the car that would be best for me versus its cost! I think it was pretty obvious that I could afford to buy options galore, rust packs and the like. I don't recall Audi, BMW or Mercedes ever trying to talk me *down*. The sales experience was every bit as special as the service experience and the car itself.
Many reasonable responses to your query, don't know what else is left to add for rational discourse. All I've got to offer is anecdote.
My personal experience is this: I had to make the Tesla sales guy understand that I really, really wanted the Plus package. He insisted that it wouldn't make a difference to ordinary driving. I suspected he was right -- and I'm definitely an ordinary driver! -- but he was completely missing the point. Dammit, it's *MY* mid-life crisis and I'm getting every option on the list!(*) One friend, who is a BMW enthusiast and also a Tesla fan, cruelly pointed out to me that the Plus package would be wasted on me, but he'd be happy to take me to the track sometime and show me what could be done with it.
So, I figured, OK, I'm not going to understand/feel much if any benefit, but heck, everyone knows that chicks dig a guy with a Plus package .Then a couple of months ago I took the car in for a service day to attend to some minor items that had accumulated. The Service Center loaned me a P85. Great car! But I **immediately** felt the difference in handling, especially in the behavior of the rear end of the car, and under acceleration. More recently, I've also experienced my 19" snow tires (Hakka R2s, great tires, with Rial wheels) versus my 21" PS2s (the OEM tires and wheels from Tesla), and WOW, there's another major difference. I now officially miss the 21" performance tire season of the year.
So the happy surprise for me is that the Plus package and 21" wheel combination makes a difference in handling that turns out to matter to me. I also believe that the P85+ with the performance tires is a tad faster off the line than the P85 with 19" tires (but that's an unquantified feeling, I have no measurements). I'd be hard put to buy a P85 at this point, having experienced the P85+. Better not to try the Plus at all.
Of course, there IS a serious difference in cash outlay between the two variants, which can easily trump all other considerations. And my wife notices all the chicks eyeing my Plus, so that's a benefit, too. Alan
(*)What a great sales experience to have a sales representative try to configure the car that would be best for me versus its cost! I think it was pretty obvious that I could afford to buy options galore, rust packs and the like. I don't recall Audi, BMW or Mercedes ever trying to talk me *down*. The sales experience was every bit as special as the service experience and the car itself.
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Thanks everyone for their input.
We sat in the back of a Tesla as we cabbed from the airport to the hotel but it was late at night and only a 15 minute ride. I'll be test driving the cars next week.
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Rotating tires save you money because it helps wear the tire more evenly as each tire wears differently, depending on the position of the tire. For example, the inside of the rear tires wear faster than the outside. So if you do not rotate it, the inside will wear down to the wearbar whereas the outside would still have some tread, but you cannot use the tire anymore as it would be unsafe. If you were to rotate it, you could wear the opposite side so that it is more even. Since the P85+ have different tire sizes, you can only rotate the fronts and rotate the rears, whereas the S85/P85 with 19"s have the same tire sizes so you can criss-cross the positions to have maximum even tire wear.
http://us.coopertire.com/Tire-Safety/Tire-Maintenance/Tire-Rotation.aspx
We sat in the back of a Tesla as we cabbed from the airport to the hotel but it was late at night and only a 15 minute ride. I'll be test driving the cars next week.
- - - Updated - - -
Rotating tires save you money because it helps wear the tire more evenly as each tire wears differently, depending on the position of the tire. For example, the inside of the rear tires wear faster than the outside. So if you do not rotate it, the inside will wear down to the wearbar whereas the outside would still have some tread, but you cannot use the tire anymore as it would be unsafe. If you were to rotate it, you could wear the opposite side so that it is more even. Since the P85+ have different tire sizes, you can only rotate the fronts and rotate the rears, whereas the S85/P85 with 19"s have the same tire sizes so you can criss-cross the positions to have maximum even tire wear.
http://us.coopertire.com/Tire-Safety/Tire-Maintenance/Tire-Rotation.aspx
It's not supposed to save money, it's supposed to allow you to have the best (safest) handling at all times. Ideally--unless the car comes with different tires front and rear--the tires should be as close to the same as possible all around the car. Replacing two at a time means that the tires vary in tread depth by quite a bit. Also tire manufacturers silently change the specifications of tires over time, so you can never be sure the tires you purchase today are the same tires as the tires you purchase in six months.
S85 already has enough torque to hit the traction limit with standard tires on regular roads (!).
GregH
Member
I, too, spent a fair amount of time & research wrestling with this question. At the end of the day, I had my DS change my order from S85 to P85+. I hope to take delivery in the next couple of weeks. YOLO, go for it!
I would not consider the P85+ a "family" car due to the harsher ride and unnecessary speed. It's still a phenomenal car. But if you're going to be doing a lot of family things in it, then I'd just go for the S85.
swapping out to the 19's takes care of this and so many other issues. we are very much enjoying the + as a family car. road noise is now normal and the ride is great, to us it's the best of both worlds.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
YBD,
I'm confused. What is unnecessary speed?
hah! true ... I guess another way to put it is that I only go 100+mph or 0-60 in 3.9s when it's just me in the car. I don't do that when I'm driving my wife or the kids around. If you're going to be driving your family around 95% of the time, I don't think getting the P or Plus pkg is worth it at today's price. Back when we first ordered all that extra stuff was free which made the package a super great value. Now its like ~$20k more for all those extras.
P85+ vote from me. The only downside to me is a little more road noise than the 19's, but the handling improvement is oh so worth it. If you came out of a Camry the S85 would be fine, but coming out of a S5 I can't imagine you would not regret doing the P85+ in the long run. How many people here have traded or sold a P85+ to get a S85 or non + P? I would bet the answer is zero or close to it. On the other hand a number of people have sold to upgrade to the P85+
There's no reason you can't haul a family around in a P85+...it's still a large sedan with an air suspension, it doesn't suddenly become a Lotus Elise.
If you're coming from an S5 wanting an RS5 the + was made for people like you. It's a noticeable upgrade in handling and stability, but unless you drove a Model S with 19s and Smart Air then jumped into a + almost no one would complain about the ride quality, even those coming from "normal" cars.
If you're coming from an S5 wanting an RS5 the + was made for people like you. It's a noticeable upgrade in handling and stability, but unless you drove a Model S with 19s and Smart Air then jumped into a + almost no one would complain about the ride quality, even those coming from "normal" cars.
I have no regrets getting my P85 where I drive around the South Bay. When I got my car the P85+ had not yet been announced. I have not yet had a chance to drive the plus and the last time I took my car in for service there were no loaner cars since they had all been sold. I wonder how much of the improvement is from going from the Continental DW tires to the Michelin PS2 tires? I have the 21" wheels but am considering possibly getting some 19" wheels for winter driving.
lolachampcar
Well-Known Member
aaronw,
You can get a vast majority of the + feel by moving to Pilots (I'd suggest the cheaper of the PS2 and PSS, I really can not keep them straight) and, assuming you have an early serial number like I did (42xxish), changing out the lower control arms in the rear. Tesla started using the stiffer bushing LCAs in the P+ then migrated them to all production. My wife's Sept delivery coil S85 did not have any of the rear end vagueness of my Feb delivery P85. The arms plus labor are not cheap but I think you would find the result compares favorably with the + package (which has stiffer front dampers, larger sway bars and may have increased air spring rate - different part number but I did not check the spring rate of the air springs as I was changing to coils).
You can get a vast majority of the + feel by moving to Pilots (I'd suggest the cheaper of the PS2 and PSS, I really can not keep them straight) and, assuming you have an early serial number like I did (42xxish), changing out the lower control arms in the rear. Tesla started using the stiffer bushing LCAs in the P+ then migrated them to all production. My wife's Sept delivery coil S85 did not have any of the rear end vagueness of my Feb delivery P85. The arms plus labor are not cheap but I think you would find the result compares favorably with the + package (which has stiffer front dampers, larger sway bars and may have increased air spring rate - different part number but I did not check the spring rate of the air springs as I was changing to coils).
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