AndyWarrington
Member
I don't recall such conversations about which is best suited (fast or rapid's) when they were free at supermarkets not so long ago!
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Sainsbury's Launch Own-Brand Charging Network
- Thread starter randompixel
- Start date
One thing that is stopping me from visiting places in UK that is not covered that much by Tesla SCs is lack of availability of rapid or ultrarapids in places like supermarkets where I can do a quick refill before I get to the next SCs. One classic example is couple of years ago we were at the lakes and we stayed between Windermere and Keswick. The accommodation had a 3 pin plug to charge - well and good. On a normal day, that is sorted. The nearest Tesla SCs was around 22miles away. There were not many rapids or ultrarapids - mostly council car parks with 7kws. We had an emergency to go to the nearest A&E in the middle of the night the car had around 50% charge that is good enough to take me once and get back to base. If we needed to go again we had to go to the Tesla SCs to do the charging with a sick child at the back. There were few chargers dotted around but all of them were 7kws not very useful for a quick fill and dash. The other big issue is their unsuable nature or complex process of having all the apps and subscriptions - again this needed to be resolved - if sainsbury does that with just credit cards then great.
So make the spaces that are further away wider?
And someone should tell my local Tesco then that their 7kw charging spaces are barely wide enough to fit a car in let alone a wheelchair down the side as well.
I'd take a free slow vs a paying fast anytime (if not on a road trip obviously).
Actually they should do just that.
Keep a couple ultrafast with their outrageous pricing for customers on a road trip so they can take a quick loo break with a sandwich if desperate.
Offer a bunch of free 7kW for customers (with proof of minimum spend if needed).
That way everyone's happy
They exactly have that in Cambridge Waitrose but not free. I have rarely seen any of them being used by electric cars. During Pre Christmas days all of them were occupied by ICE cars and some Evs with no charge cable attached.
AndyWarrington
Member
I can't see the point of 7Kw's - I mean who's in a supermarket for 1, longer than necessary; 2, 3-4 hours to make any real difference? I'd say 50Kwh speeds would probably better suited - mid-way speed wise so you can top up substantially for the expected average visit time, 10-40mins? And they'd probably be able to install more of them and they'd be used
My only issue with these, and particularly destination chargers, are the wholly over the top costs. IMO regulation is required regarding these prices
You can't limit to 30 minutes at a supermarket since anybody doing a shop could take longer than that.
The Tesla-style power-sharing approach is needed, where there are more stalls than power so it can tolerate some people staying longer.
phil4
Member
They are pretty close, but honestly, wouldn't mind going down to -1 or -2, have to do that sometimes anyway to get a space. It's been a while though since they insist making it much harder to get there.
Tiger
Active Member
They should put the chargin speed on the name instead of "ultra". Just say "Sainsbury's 3-100kW Charging" and people will know to steer away 
You've sortof answered yourself there.
If it's a rapid/ultra rapid then it can't be free, since people will be maxing out their cars on them and Sainsburys (or whoever) would have to eat the bill. They wouldn't gain anything from it, particularly since there's a good chance any customer using it would be in the store for less time anyway (so not doing a big shop), if that person goes into the store at all.
7kW or maybe 22kW - subsidised with a receipt or whatever - means people can't use it as their own personal chargers like what happened with the Tesco Podpoint ones when they were free, but they also give people a topup while they shop.
It seems to me that people are fixated on receiving a significant charge while they're shopping, "otherwise what's the point". My argument is that it can be enough that it's a bit extra, if it cancels out the miles you did to get there and back then that could arguably be enough. Again, different strokes for different folks. I used to plug in at Tesco whether I was in there for 20 minutes or longer - because it was free and I'm getting a bag out of the boot anyway. Also the spaces were a lot bigger so less chance of door dings.
I can't speak to whether or not a given individual on here can be bothered to get free electrons or not, everyone is different. As I said before though - when Tesco Podpoints were free they were always in use, in my experience at least. Have they lost footfall now that they're chargeable? I'd argue yes, though would concede I don't know to what extent as they were certainly abused.
I just happen to think if a supermarket is installing chargers with an eye on incentivising footfall, or drawing people away from other supermarkets, then those chargers need not be rapid/ultra rapid, and there's good reasons for them not to be - i.e. being able to install more fast chargers instead.
fholbert
Active Member
In the US, some grocery stores give you credits when you buy gas at affiliated gas stations. Wonder if the same would work on EV charging? Free high speed charging may be asking too much. What if you got credit on your next grocery purchase?
Here's simple solution:
look, simple, I just sorted this *sugar*..
- For anyone spending X amount (let' say 50 gbp) the single use barcode / QR code is printed on receipt. It would be valid for that particular day, maybe for next 2 hours or so (in order to stop digging rubbish bins for old receipts....)
- Then you have barcode / QR Code scanner at charger. You scan your code at finish of charging.
- If code is valid, the Charging session is free or heavily subsidised. whatever
- Charging session should have a pre-autorisation on 60 gbp, 100 gbp or whatever on payment card anyway.
- So if no code provided at end of charge - then full price paid.
look, simple, I just sorted this *sugar*..
We have a similar system over here, but it's actually geared towards people buying fuel. They buy fuel and use their loyalty card when paying, which in turn gives them a number of points that can ultimately be used in a variety of ways - either as a voucher code to use on next grocery shop, or other things.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
My local Waitrose recently (6 months-ish ago I think) put in Shell Recharge 2 x 50kW Rapids and 6 x 22kW Type 2 AC
There are usually some cars charging there. They are situated right by the exit, which wasn't really a popular place to park, so seems like a good choice to prevent them being ICE'd
I don't know how many cars can use 22kW AC ... but that seems like a good compromise compared to 7kW (I also don't know how much they charge, couldn't find that Info online)
There are usually some cars charging there. They are situated right by the exit, which wasn't really a popular place to park, so seems like a good choice to prevent them being ICE'd
I don't know how many cars can use 22kW AC ... but that seems like a good compromise compared to 7kW (I also don't know how much they charge, couldn't find that Info online)
Quite often my Sainsbury's will spit out a paper "5p/ltr off petrol" voucher after shopping. I'd hope there would be an EV equivalent of that.
UkNorthampton
TSLA - 12+ startups in 1
22+ kW 3 phase AC (43 kW for old Zoe / Kangoo) or 50+ kW DC in large numbers might be an option, load sharing etc. From memory, many Teslas can do 11kW on 3 phase AC. Over time this may increase, but DC probablybetter..
Those sort of speeds should be OK for charging, certainly grazing enough to replace mileage.
And the price should be low, as this is what brings your customers. I suspect Sainsburys have misunderstood again (early experimenters with RFID tracking, "clubcard" and self-scanning) and competitors will think it through better.
Edit: Electricity prices are likely to go down in the future. Kit simplicity should be a major aspect, simple and lots of them. Sainsbury have overcomplicated things and probably bought wrong kit or engaged wrong supplier/consultancy.
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I hope you are right about this. Despite making a substantial investment on solar and batteries on our home to soften our energy costs, I would welcome prices going back down.
Tescos makes an interesting case study. When it was free.. always abused. Now it’s a very fair 40ish p/kwh I’ve parked my car several times and left it overnight when away from home.
You have to take a fee to ensure the charger points a) aren’t abused; b) generate enough revenue to be maintained. Ice’ing just needs the parking company zealots to get in the game - and they are.
IMO every car park should have 7kW charge points.
You have to take a fee to ensure the charger points a) aren’t abused; b) generate enough revenue to be maintained. Ice’ing just needs the parking company zealots to get in the game - and they are.
IMO every car park should have 7kW charge points.
WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
I think they should be the fastest that a car can charge on AC. I think that 7kW has been chosen as being comfortable for domestic supply on single phase, but Commercial sites will have 3-Phase available, so their car parks should use whatever is achievable (i.e. affordably) for max AC kW that cars will utilise - so perhaps 11kW would be better, or maybe EV manufacturers could be persuaded to fit 22kW - that would mean that car park charging (particularly for people without off-road home charging) would be a reasonable speed, without having to speed a lot of money on multiples of 100kW charger hardware.
What’s the point of a 7kw charger for a ~30min shop?
Public 7kw chargers, to me, only seem to make sense at somewhere like a large shopping centre or a hotel where you’ll be leaving the car for hours.
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