Salvage cars: Tesla permanently disabling SC from supercharger

[M0rpH3x]

We're talking salvage cars, right? In that case, you've already been paid for your car by the insurance company. Why would Tesla need to buy it back?

Aren't the safety features for charging be a software thing? I'm assuming the computer reads voltage, etc. and communicates with the charger - that's not hardware, that's software making the connection. You can still charge - just have to use Level 2 charging so it's going to take more time but you're not precluded from charging.

1. No insurance ever paid me a single penny for my car.
2. SC removal in salvage vehicles has nothing to do with safety. As many explained, cosmetic damage can total a Tesla, and that would disable SC, even if the HV system is in perfect condition.
3. I’m precluded from DC charging, which is an essential feature of the car. Unless you want to buy a Tesla just to buy groceries.

 

[M0rpH3x]

Or... they can block you from using their fast-charging system. I wouldn't necessarily call the Superchargers a "public charger", as ONLY Teslas can use them, and I completely understand them not wanting some "hacked" car shorting out at a SC station, leaving them stuck with paying perhaps thousands of dollars to repair it.

And I am pretty sure you knew all this before you started your hacking.

I don’t care if Tesla doesn’t allow me to use their network, although I find surprising that they allow totaled cars from other automakers to use it. In any case, they should do it the right way, i.e. the charger reject your vehicle, NOT by modifying your car without permission.

What I find unacceptable is that Tesla disables ANY kind of DC charging in salvage cars. Just imaging you buy a totaled Mustang and you rebuild it. And then Ford magically modifies it so you can only refuel it through a little straw. This is what Tesla does.

 

[M0rpH3x]

Here is an interesting twist, if they open up SuperChargers to non-Tesla cars they might have to allow so called Salvaged cars to access their SuperCharges since they will not be able to determine if a non-Tesla was a salvage. It will then be discriminatory to only ban salvaged Teslas. Maybe.??

This is a good point, but I don’t think Tesla cares. I believe they WILL discriminate Teslas. Nonetheless, I’ll try it and report back.

 

[M0rpH3x]

@BritneySpears has confirmed that they can use the CHAdeMO and Setec CCS adapter on a Model 3 even though their Supercharging has been disabled:

Tesla policy explicitly says that they disable all kinds of DC charging. It’s a matter of time that the other DC charging stops working. These are two different keys in the gw, and I’m not sure why Tesla goes one by one, but I’ve heard reports of Teslas with no DC charging capabilities at all.

 

[M0rpH3x]

Tesla policy explicitly says that they disable all kinds of DC charging. It’s a matter of time that the other DC charging stops working. These are two different keys in the gw, and I’m not sure why Tesla goes one by one, but I’ve heard reports of Teslas with no DC charging capabilities at all.

Do you disagree with me, @ElectricIAC??
By the way, anyone can check the TN-18-00-001, now that Tesla opened their service manuals and (some) technical documents to everybody.
Yes, there is "and/or" language. My understanding here is "I want to cover my @ss because disabling 3rd party DC charging most likely is illegal". But they do it. They have done it. And I'm sure they'll do it again.

 

[M0rpH3x]

"If a vehicle is found to have been modified to enable SC and/or fast charging through 3rd party chargers, Tesla may take legal action and seek compensation." So if I modify my Tesla to DC charge outside Tesla network, Tesla wants compensation??? WTF

 

[stopcrazypp]

Do you disagree with me, @ElectricIAC??
By the way, anyone can check the TN-18-00-001, now that Tesla opened their service manuals and (some) technical documents to everybody.
Yes, there is "and/or" language. My understanding here is "I want to cover my @ss because disabling 3rd party DC charging most likely is illegal". But they do it. They have done it. And I'm sure they'll do it again.

View attachment 816620

There's that internal memo, but the public one doesn't mention third party chargers and there are also examples of people that have third party still work while superchargers don't (although there are also those where both don't work).
Additional Resources | Tesla

 

[M0rpH3x]

There's that internal memo, but the public one doesn't mention third party chargers and there are also examples of people that have third party still work while superchargers don't (although there are also those where both don't work).
Additional Resources | Tesla

That internal memo is not internal anymore, since anyone can access it. I just went to Tesla service and got it.
If by public information you mean what they put in their webpage, that's not very exhaustive. And the problem is that IT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.

After I fixed my car, it took two or three months for Tesla to disable SC. I guess they take their time. But I'm sure they'll do it (or they will change policy, but my hopes are not high on that one).

 

[MP3Mike]

There's that internal memo, but the public one doesn't mention third party chargers and there are also examples of people that have third party still work while superchargers don't (although there are also those where both don't work).
Additional Resources | Tesla

I think the main difference is that on the S&X they tend to disable all DC fast charging, which I think is controlled by a single on/off option. On the 3&Y there are separate options, and they seem to only turn off the Supercharging option.

Note: It was possible to have a Model S that couldn't Supercharge but could use CHAdeMO, but it had to be specially setup when you bought the adapter. (And I think they charged $1,500 to do it.) It only applied to certain models; like all of the Model S 40s, and the Model S 60s where they didn't pay to enable Supercharging. So really when they turn off Supercharging they should turn on the other option for 3rd party fast charging.

 

[stopcrazypp]

I think the main difference is that on the S&X they tend to disable all DC fast charging, which I think is controlled by a single on/off option. On the 3&Y there are separate options, and they seem to only turn off the Supercharging option.

Note: It was possible to have a Model S that couldn't Supercharge but could use CHAdeMO, but it had to be specially setup when you bought the adapter. (And I think they charged $1,500 to do it.) It only applied to certain models; like all of the Model S 40s, and the Model S 60s where they didn't pay to enable Supercharging. So really when they turn off Supercharging they should turn on the other option for 3rd party fast charging.

I didn't pay attention to the model difference, but that may explain why some people have third party and some don't.

I wonder if the latest update (the one that temporarily enabled supercharging for salvage cars). Looking back up thread there was talk of a protocol change that will allow the supercharger side to disable supercharging.

 

[MP3Mike]

I didn't pay attention to the model difference, but that may explain why some people have third party and some don't.

Yep. And there is currently a rumor that by the end of the year Tesla will have a recertification process for turning Supercharging back on, but the new process will only apply to the 3&Y.

I wonder if the latest update (the one that temporarily enabled supercharging for salvage cars). Looking back up thread there was talk of a protocol change that will allow the supercharger side to disable supercharging.

They can already block Supercharging from the Supercharger side. And there are two ways, one in which it just doesn't work, and another that flips a permanent Supercharging disable bit in the ECU. (The only way to reverse it would be to replace hardware in the vehicle.)

 

[M0rpH3x]

I think the main difference is that on the S&X they tend to disable all DC fast charging, which I think is controlled by a single on/off option. On the 3&Y there are separate options, and they seem to only turn off the Supercharging option.

Note: It was possible to have a Model S that couldn't Supercharge but could use CHAdeMO, but it had to be specially setup when you bought the adapter. (And I think they charged $1,500 to do it.) It only applied to certain models; like all of the Model S 40s, and the Model S 60s where they didn't pay to enable Supercharging. So really when they turn off Supercharging they should turn on the other option for 3rd party fast charging.

No, there is no "single on/off option". There have always been different options in the gw. There is "fastcharge", which controls supercharging, and "otherfastchargeallowed", which controls CCS and CHAdeMO. And this applies to Model S/X.

My US Model S can currently use CCS and CHAdeMO, but no supercharge.

 

[stopcrazypp]

No, there is no "single on/off option". There have always been different options in the gw. There is "fastcharge", which controls supercharging, and "otherfastchargeallowed", which controls CCS and CHAdeMO. And this applies to Model S/X.

My US Model S can currently use CCS and CHAdeMO, but no supercharge.

I thought you had an example where all fast charging was disabled, which was why you were talking about both being disabled as the official policy? If that is not the case, did you have a reference to a car that had both disabled (and not because of damage to car making it not work, but rather disabled by Tesla)?

 

[efmonster]

Im interested in enabling supercharger on the salvage vehicle

 

[henderrj]

I bought a December 2014 S, wrecked and repaired. To confirm it was okay I checked with Tesla - "Yes, 50k bumper to bumper and 8 yr unlimited miles on drive unit and battery." 5 plus years and 250,000 miles later, tons of repairs (including 2 drive units under warranty), upgrades and, of course, supercharging, suddenly, without warning, on a trip to Dallas, hey presto, no supercharging. Also no warranty and no service center access. I've been through 3 layers of Tesla corporate and still nothing. Next step seems to be litigation.

And I did not believe it was a salvage vehicle. Your chances, I think,are about zero.

 

[MP3Mike]

I bought a December 2014 S, wrecked and repaired.

And I did not believe it was a salvage vehicle.

What does the title say? (That is what determines if it was a salvage vehicle or not.)

 

[zoomer0056]

Welp, count me in as another unsuspecting buyer of a salvaged title Tesla not knowing that I wouldn't have access to SC. Got a 2019 Model 3 Standard Range Plus. 1st time Tesla owner so still learning the basics of the basics.

It can currently still supercharge, but sounds like its just a matter of time until it's blacklisted.

My question is: If I don't use Tesla SCs, am I safe to keep using 3rd party high speed chargers or will Tesla find me/disable SC anyways?

Did you get some sort of indication that you will be banned?

 

[stopcrazypp]

I bought a December 2014 S, wrecked and repaired. To confirm it was okay I checked with Tesla - "Yes, 50k bumper to bumper and 8 yr unlimited miles on drive unit and battery." 5 plus years and 250,000 miles later, tons of repairs (including 2 drive units under warranty), upgrades and, of course, supercharging, suddenly, without warning, on a trip to Dallas, hey presto, no supercharging. Also no warranty and no service center access. I've been through 3 layers of Tesla corporate and still nothing. Next step seems to be litigation.

And I did not believe it was a salvage vehicle. Your chances, I think,are about zero.

As mentioned, check your title. There should be no ambiguity if it is salvage or not. Otherwise the seller duped you.

 

[henderrj]

It did not say salvage. Arizona has a rebuilt status that is between the two, apparently. Washington, where we lived, is a title hold state, so we didn't see the title until we licensed in Oklahoma. We also checked with our insurance agent, and our credit union won't give loans for salvage title vehicles. More details, but it's no surprise Tesla didn't know.

And, no, no warning. Although my avatar did change to the wrong color a week or so before the trip. Still is wrong through multiple updates so maybe that is a warning?

 

[stopcrazypp]

It did not say salvage. Arizona has a rebuilt status that is between the two, apparently. Washington, where we lived, is a title hold state, so we didn't see the title until we licensed in Oklahoma. We also checked with our insurance agent, and our credit union won't give loans for salvage title vehicles. More details, but it's no surprise Tesla didn't know.

And, no, no warning. Although my avatar did change to the wrong color a week or so before the trip. Still is wrong through multiple updates so maybe that is a warning?

From google, all rebuilt titles come from salvage titles (they are simply salvage vehicles that are repaired and then recertified by the state). That means they are banned by Tesla also. Tesla does not acknowledge any sort of fixes to salvage vehicles to requalify for supercharging (they do have an inspection process to allow Tesla to work on the HV parts of the car again, but that does not reactivate supercharging).
https://www.autosavvy.com/branded-title-information/what-is-a-rebuilt-title/