Salvage cars: Tesla permanently disabling SC from supercharger

[henderrj]

From google, all rebuilt titles come from salvage titles (they are simply salvage vehicles that are repaired and then recertified by the state). That means they are banned by Tesla also. Tesla does not acknowledge any sort of fixes to salvage vehicles to requalify for supercharging (they do have an inspection process to allow Tesla to work on the HV parts of the car again, but that does not reactivate supercharging).
https://www.autosavvy.com/branded-title-information/what-is-a-rebuilt-title/

The point of my post was to say that the person who wanted to buy a car he knew was salvage and asked Tesla to give him supercharging was living a dream. I don't think it's going to happen. Not unless they lose some big law case.

In my case, this was 6 years ago, apparently there wasn't a nationwide database then. But maybe there was. In any event Tesla, myself, the insurance company, and the credit union all did not believe this was a salvage vehicle. Apparently no insurance company ever paid out on it. It was a self-insured vehicle, and the right-off to the business it was run through was worth more in tax dollars than the value of the vehicle. So even though the repairs were less than what normally cause a car to be salvaged, it technically was. Even if by a private party. Our case appears to be entirely unique in Tesla annals.

 

[stopcrazypp]

The point of my post was to say that the person who wanted to buy a car he knew was salvage and asked Tesla to give him supercharging was living a dream. I don't think it's going to happen. Not unless they lose some big law case.

In my case, this was 6 years ago, apparently there wasn't a nationwide database then. But maybe there was. In any event Tesla, myself, the insurance company, and the credit union all did not believe this was a salvage vehicle. Apparently no insurance company ever paid out on it. It was a self-insured vehicle, and the right-off to the business it was run through was worth more in tax dollars than the value of the vehicle. So even though the repairs were less than what normally cause a car to be salvaged, it technically was. Even if by a private party. Our case appears to be entirely unique in Tesla annals.

Tesla was not an insurance company either back then. Now that they also offer insurance, I imagine they get better insurance database access than previously.

 

[JollyBadger]

Why is it "just plain wrong"? Tesla has a policy, and they enforce it. Their responsibility to support salvage vehicles ends the second they are declared a total loss by insurance, or the title is branded. (With the exception that they still have to perform applicable recalls on them.)

Tesla is very clear on this policy and it is plainly posted on their web site: Additional Resources | Tesla



And just to make a point here, if you bought a salvage Tesla you're not really a Tesla customer.

With all of that said, I do agree that they should have a process where you can pay to get an physical/HV inspection and if you pass paid Supercharging would be reenabled. (They have an HV inspection process but it is only for enabling you to pay Tesla to perform HV related repairs; it doesn't reenabled Supercharging.)

I bought a Salvage (repairable) 2020 Tesla Model 3 in August of 2021. I drove it to Las Vegas from NM twice and I developed a issue with my horn and scroll buttons and I was told to take it to Tesla. They required me to get an HV test at a cost of over $850.00 before thet would work on it. The HV test was clean and then they repaired the vehicle. Tesla then disabled supercharging privileges.

 

[henderrj]

I bought a Salvage (repairable) 2020 Tesla Model 3 in August of 2021. I drove it to Las Vegas from NM twice and I developed a issue with my horn and scroll buttons and I was told to take it to Tesla. They required me to get an HV test at a cost of over $850.00 before thet would work on it. The HV test was clean and then they repaired the vehicle. Tesla then disabled supercharging privileges.

It appears to be all about keeping under the radar. If Tesla doesn't know about you, they usually leave you alone. In our case it was moving to a new state. When we licensed it there it entered some database that Tesla watched.

Ours is even worse in that they gave us warranty repairs for 5 years, including 2 new drive units, because, as they told us before we bought the car, it WAS under warranty. They've now even admitted that it was. But they refused to give supercharging back or do anything about it.

I am not in love with the new Tesla.

 

[M0rpH3x]

I thought you had an example where all fast charging was disabled, which was why you were talking about both being disabled as the official policy? If that is not the case, did you have a reference to a car that had both disabled (and not because of damage to car making it not work, but rather disabled by Tesla)?

My car will never be an example, because I have gw access and I disabled SC by choice.

I saw reports on twitter of a guy with (if I remember well) a 2014 Model S, but this was months ago and I can’t easily find the tweet.

It’s complicated to find examples, because:

- In NA Teslas mainly DC charge through SC.

- Outside NA there isn’t a booming industry that repairs salvage cars. In fact, the rebuilt/salvaged vs clean title distinction does not exist in most countries. Usually, totaled cars outside the US are sold for parts.

So no, I didn’t find many examples. In truth, I just found one. But combined with the internal memo, I don’t see why they wouldn’t be enforcing this all the way. The point is, if you own a salvaged Tesla in the US, how are you going to find out? Will you invest in a $400 chademo adapter which is outdated? Will you go through the hassle of installing CCS to find out that it doesn’t work?

Now that everything is becoming easier (modern Model S/X accept CCS with the proper adapter and no modifications) we might see cases. But it is not straightforward to find those. On the other hand, Tesla is becoming more open lately. With a bit of hope, they will adopt a sensible policy towards salvaged cars.

 

[brainhouston]

or at least leave salvage owners alone n not hunt us down lol
im fine with just having DC charging (plenty of those around) n avoid Tesla altogether, i can be my own Service Center

 

[ElectricIAC]

or at least leave salvage owners alone n not hunt us down lol
im fine with just having DC charging (plenty of those around) n avoid Tesla altogether, i can be my own Service Center

If they’re supposedly going to open up superchargers to all cars that have DCFC they need to also include Tesla Salvage.

 

[ElectricIAC]

To the naysayers. Think about it, how would they actually enforce salvage policy onto a car that isn’t under their umbrella?

It opens up a valid argument.

 

[stopcrazypp]

If they’re supposedly going to open up superchargers to all cars that have DCFC they need to also include Tesla Salvage.

Sounds like wishful thinking. There is nothing to suggest that them opening up superchargers to non-Teslas necessarily means Tesla needs to allow salvage vehicles too.

 

[brainhouston]

yeap, not gonna hold my breath for it...
maybe there'll be a way to trick the SC into thinking its a non-tesla car but i won't hold my breath for that either...

 

[ElectricIAC]

yeap, not gonna hold my breath for it...
maybe there'll be a way to trick the SC into thinking its a non-tesla car but i won't hold my breath for that either...

Now you’re thinking.

 

[M0rpH3x]

Now you’re thinking.

I want to try this, actually. I’ll report back as soon as my car arrives from the US.

 

[GusMY]

Quick question to all my salvaged Tesla folks, when supercharger is blocked, will it go away from the car specs on the app?

I am getting sporadically working supercharger and then it stops, then it works again….

 

[AZDZ]

Salvage Tesla can't use Supercharge，This is ridiculous.

 

[brainhouston]

They can already block Supercharging from the Supercharger side. And there are two ways, one in which it just doesn't work, and another that flips a permanent Supercharging disable bit in the ECU. (The only way to reverse it would be to replace hardware in the vehicle.)

Is this based on OP or u have some other info?
I looked at that tweet by wk057 n there're no more discussions there whether it holds true now
I'd be curious to hear from Salvage owners that have SC/DC enabled in gw n tried SC
I have it done on my car but it'll be a while before i can drive it to test SC n DC, will sure come back here n update.
One thing i was told is that V3 SC is a gamble n stay away from but V2/V1 should be fine.

 

[MP3Mike]

I looked at that tweet by wk057 n there're no more discussions there whether it holds true now

I thought that @wk057 said that Tesla really only used that method for people that really used, abused?, the Superchargers. (But maybe I remember that wrong.)

 

[brainhouston]

I thought that @wk057 said that Tesla really only used that method for people that really used, abused?, the Superchargers. (But maybe I remember that wrong.)

i do not see it anywhere in the tweet but i wasn't around back then so not sure...
also what defines u as "really abused" per Tesla?
i'm mostly concerned about "perm disabling via command from SC"
is that really possible n un-reversable?
seems like nobody is posting about it since that time... nobody brave to try it or it was just one off case?

 

[roblab]

There are a great many Tesla owners who hardly ever feel the need to supercharge, while those of us who own a Model S or X have supercharging included in the elevated price whether we use it or not. Salvage cars are cheaper because, partly, they don't include all the little niceties of a new Tesla. Tesla has the right to allow or disallow its services. I would guess that the person rebuilding the wrecked Tesla could have checked BEFORE completing his car and already knew it was not allowed supercharging, so what's the problem? He's selling it cheaper, partly because supercharging is not available.

With my Model S, I have 400 miles of range. With that, I can drive halfway to our son's house in Phoenix, charge overnight, and complete the trip the next day. With a 3, there's the need of two charging stops, but I've done that in the early days at RV parks and made some pretty nice trips. If you know your limitations, what's the problem? Well, sure, you can't sell your salvaged Model S or 3 as new cars, can you? Bummer.

 

[ElectricIAC]

There are a great many Tesla owners who hardly ever feel the need to supercharge, while those of us who own a Model S or X have supercharging included in the elevated price whether we use it or not. Salvage cars are cheaper because, partly, they don't include all the little niceties of a new Tesla. Tesla has the right to allow or disallow its services. I would guess that the person rebuilding the wrecked Tesla could have checked BEFORE completing his car and already knew it was not allowed supercharging, so what's the problem? He's selling it cheaper, partly because supercharging is not available.

With my Model S, I have 400 miles of range. With that, I can drive halfway to our son's house in Phoenix, charge overnight, and complete the trip the next day. With a 3, there's the need of two charging stops, but I've done that in the early days at RV parks and made some pretty nice trips. If you know your limitations, what's the problem? Well, sure, you can't sell your salvaged Model S or 3 as new cars, can you? Bummer.

Translation: Buy a new car, pleb.

 

[wk057]

They still do this to folks who re-enable supercharging via external means on salvage vehicles. It appears to be a manual process from what I can tell. The superchargers themselves have a somewhat limited connectivity (which is why the majority of the billing and such is actually handled by the car side, interestingly enough)... my guess is that they have to kind of go out of their way to trigger this, and likely can only do so at specific stations for specific cars.

The last case I know about is a guy with a salvage that had someone else (not me) re-enable supercharging and disconnect from Tesla, and was basically just local supercharging all the time. Eventually they shut him down from the charger side and triggered the disable flag.

On the technical side, this actually doesn't have to be done digitally with a programmed command, per se... I tried blocking this ability with modified firmware, but they basically make the supercharger intentionally fail a particular test the vehicle does for safety that causes the car to believe that the onboard fast charge equipment is faulty and it disables it for safety reasons. And the actual fault detection code is worth keeping for actual safety reasons.

It's actually quite a clever way to get the unconnected car to do what they want without really commanding it to do anything. Might even be more "legal" than reaching in and disabling supercharging on the vehicle itself remotely like they generally do.

IANAL, but I firmly believe Tesla modifying vehicles they do not own to remotely remove functionality without explicit permission from the owner is outright theft, no different than if they physically stole your wheels or similar... but in the few instances I know of where anyone attempted to fight them on this on a legal front they've eventually come to an NDA'd settlement of some kind. Makes me feel pretty confident if it made it to court they would lose big time.

It's also ridiculous that they're opening up the supercharging network to third parties (in Europe so far at least), in which case who knows what they're charging and how safe it is... but still won't let salvage Tesla's with superficial damage, or otherwise completely safe and repaired vehicles, use the superchargers under the guise of a safety concern. Are they saying Tesla's are less safe charging than the competition?!