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Sandy Munro talks about the teardown of the Model 3

Discussion in 'Model 3' started by Grendal, Jan 3, 2019.

  1. Grendal

    Grendal SpaceX Moderator

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  2. SageBrush

    SageBrush 2018: Drain the Sewer

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    One line summary please
     
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  3. DBeckwith

    DBeckwith Member

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    #3 DBeckwith, Jan 3, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2019
    Much of what Munro has said before but more about Holbach Array magnets resulting in superior motors. Thrilled about "super bottle cooling that changes everything." Very little parts come from suppliers. He HATES the body, but loves pretty much everything else.

    Monro: "Elon Musk will clobber everybody in China...Tesla has Navy Seal engineers"
     
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  4. TLej

    TLej Little-Known Member

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    Found it to be a good and informative watch.
     
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  5. MacGreiner

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    You'd have to believe there were reasons for not making the battery a stressed member?
     
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  6. DBeckwith

    DBeckwith Member

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    I'm no structural engineer, but you have to think Munro is missing something because the Model 3 collision tests are excellent.
     
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  7. wws

    wws Member

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    I think he was more concerned with cost, weight, and manufacturability.

    The bit about the magnets was quite interesting.
     
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  8. RSL2020

    RSL2020 Member

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    Munro has talked about how the Model 3 body has too many weld points which adds cost, weight and time to the process which significantly eats into the cars profitability. He says it should have been easy to copy other companies established methods to simplify the body construction.
     
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  9. adaptabl

    adaptabl Member

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    I wonder if Tesla is now one of his customers now that he is being more positive about them?
     
  10. DBeckwith

    DBeckwith Member

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    He says Tesla is NOT his customer and makes it sound like mutual antagonism in this video. I can't find the source, but I could have sworn he said previously he had given them quite a lot of "free" advice which would seem to indicate an amiable relation. Deniability can be part of an NDA, however.
     
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  11. DriveMe

    DriveMe Member

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    After picking the Model 3 apart, two of his employees ended up buying the car! :D
     
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  12. Msjulie

    Msjulie Active Member

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    The other folks are what kinda rub me the wrong way, so condescending and know it all.. Sandy speaks his mind but just seems more qualified than the others... perhaps I am biased
     
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  13. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    #13 Brando, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
    Fisker I think got about $30 million? for rejected Model S design and then Fisker started his own electric car company - now on his 3rd attempt (solid state batteries), right??
    Tesla also paid 2 transmission companies and never did get a useable transmission for the Roadster.
    And Tesla brought seat making in house. And their own electric motors and electronics and batteries...

    So considering Tesla experience with consultants/outsiders it is a small wonder to me, Elon very wary of consultants.
     
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  14. voip-ninja

    voip-ninja Give me some sugar baby

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    Another key takeaway is that Sandy indicated in an admittedly (very) brief conversation with Elon that when he started to bring up how wastefully over-engineered the Model 3 body is Musk cut him off and said "I fired that guy". The fact that the battery is not calculated as a member in crash testing is an incredibly rookie mistake to make... but that's also the kind of thing that happens when you think you can do something that's been done for decades better than the other guys... and then have someone with little to no experience do it and crank it out as fast as humanly possible to get to market.

    It will be very VERY interesting to see if Tesla updates the design of the Model 3 unibody for production in the new Chinese factory. Seems like Tesla could put the body on a serious diet, increase range, and reduce their costs. The fact that the battery is not calculated as a member in crash testing is an incredibly rookie mistake to make.
     
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  15. Brando

    Brando Active Member

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    With continuous improvements - it MAY mean the US Model 3 will get improvements over time. BUT as volumes are so critical - making +1,200 per day - it is no doubt ticky to make "body in white" changes. AND what about crash testing? technically they'd need to be done again, right?
    I doubt government agencies will accept computer simulations - another interesting problem... a real tight rope.

    BUT, if Tesla works out these improvements in China, then perhaps a major rework in Fremont might go a lot easier.
    And, perhaps, the Model Y might take off some demand from Model 3 to better accommodate a temporary shut down for changes and restarting production lines back up again.

    Good luck to Elon and Team - production hell re-run? hopefully not.

    PS- You could make a long list of "rookie mistakes" that auto companies make. ignition switches, air bags, you get the idea. Do a search on auto recalls just to see a few.
     
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  16. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    #16 Garlan Garner, Jan 4, 2019
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2019
    Munro is sometimes a Morono.

    Indeed he said that the Model 3 body has too many weld points.

    Question to him: Too many weld points as it pertains to what?

    Too many weld points as it pertains to cost?
    Too many weld points as it pertains to weight?
    Too many weld points as it pertains to time?

    Mr. Morono, - What if Tesla's #1 goal IS NOT cost/weight/time?

    Mr. Morono, what if Tesla's #1 goal is safety?
    Mr. Morono, what if Tesla knowingly sacrifices cost, weight, and time for their customers safety? Tesla's are by far the safest cars on the road and it doesn't come without a cost.

    There is another moronic group of "tesla dismantlers'" out there that made the same criticism about Tesla and Elon stated. If that crossmember costs 10% more but saves 90% more lives...then its not really a cost.

    What a Morono.
     
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  17. Uncle Paul

    Uncle Paul Active Member

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    Looks like Morono was comparing a Tesla Model 3 that uses a rear motor to other similar cars that use front motors.

    Imagine that you need more structure when you have to design a rear wheel drive plus rear motor, like a 911 Porsche than a front engine front drive like a Nissan.

    Elon also need to error on the side of making well constructed cars. One weld to few could lead to a disaster, while 10 welds too much really cause no problem
     
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  18. voip-ninja

    voip-ninja Give me some sugar baby

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    Tesla doesn't have to re-do crash tests in China if they haven't already been done. We also don't know what the difficulty is in China of submitting a design revision for approval compared to what a chore it is in other parts of the world.

    Munro expressed confidence that Tesla would be making just those kinds of changes but obviously it will be over a year before anything they implement at a new production facility leak out, and they might never leak out until cars get crashed by actual drivers or parts manuals show differences.

    I could see Tesla using China as the opportunity to do a revisional update on the Model 3, which is now around 3 years old, and then back port those changes into the US market in a couple of years time.
     
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  19. Garlan Garner

    Garlan Garner Well-Known Member

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    Ok.... I really don't want to give Munro and different name. I was frustrated.

    Morono - I likened it to the word moron.
     
  20. voip-ninja

    voip-ninja Give me some sugar baby

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    You could maybe make the case that Chrysler might be a very expensive technical report from a moron but it's hard to believe that TWO Japanese companies did.

    Sandy Munro is extremely knowledgeable about automobile construction and I haven't seen anyone refuting the information that he's provided on the Tesla unibody being unecessarily overengineered, battery not being used as structural member, etc.

    It doesn't help any discourse if you start using ad hominem attacks on people you disagree with. If anything it just says a lot about you.
     
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