Sanity Check - Jumping Ship

[Mr Knight]

Hi all!

Im currently in the market for a new car, my faithful old diesel Peugeot is starting to show its age with random faults and the garage bills are starting to add up.

Naturally I’d consider a second hand car to get best value but with the market the way it is at the moment cars that are around 3 years old are fetching the same if not more than a brand spanker which leaves you wondering why not just go new? Obviously there’s the supply issues but cars are starting to creep through and yet the second hand market is stubbornly not moving!

So one of the cars shortlisted is the Tesla Model 3 Long Range, purely as I’m curious about EV life and know that in the next decade we’ll all have to grab that bull by the horns. As Tesla is a company that appears to go against the grain with other car manufacturers, I’ve got a few questions:

1. Customer after sales service - you only need to type Tesla in to Google and you’ll see some ‘horror stories’ (same as any car brand) such as cars turning up with missing parts, spare parts being a nightmare to source or simply issues that mean the car needs Tesla to fix it. Is this a common theme or a case of the loudest getting heard the most? I’m fortunate to have a Service Centre right around the corner (Chester) which I’m guessing gives me a desk to bang my fist on if the car decides to not play as it should?

2. Lifestyle change - the biggest ‘scare’ from the outside looking in on EV life is knowing you can’t just refuel by spending 5 minutes at a fuel pump and need to factor in charging accordingly. I’ll be coming from 15 years of fossil fuel cars/bikes which isn’t as long as plenty of the folk on here but it’s nice to know what praise and teething problems people had making the ‘switch’.

3. Own? Lease? PCP? - there’s no denying that £50k for a car is a LOT of money, the most expensive car I owned was a £20k Focus RS 10 years ago but that was eventually chopped in to fund the house deposit and I’ve been riding around in bangers every since, not out of financial constraint but purely because I like the idea of having a cheap runaround so it’s natural to feel the buttocks clench at the idea of having to suck up 50 big ones. What do most of the folk on here do as I can appreciate there’s a variety of incomes & variables at play.

4. Common issues - nothing is perfect and it’s a case of having a car you’re happy with quirks to suit your tastes, but what issues do the M3 show? Are they just minor annoyances or do they stop your day dead in its tracks?

5. What next? - I can appreciate a lot of owners here are coming to the end of the relationship with their current Tesla and I’m curious to see what they’d consider next, another Tesla? A different brand EV? Back to dinosaur juice?

 

[Tony Hoyle]

1. Tesla service swings between excellent and terrible.. in general their staff are great, but parts shortages are a big pain point. You'll most likely be fine, though.

2. You charge at home and don't think about it even for 5 minutes. If you're on a trip, have a cup of tea.. its good to break journeys every 2-3 hours anyway.

3. Up to you.. my plan is always biggest cash up front I can make and pcp/hp the rest at the lowest interest rate I can, paying off as much monthly as I can reasonably afford (clears the debt faster, so if you want to trade in within a couple a years you have more equity for a deposit on the next car). It's all down to how you handle your finances and how likely you are to update before the debt is cleared.

 

[kitenski]

flip the charging worry on its head, if you get a 7kwh home charger you can fill up the car every night without having to visit the petrol station.

 

[Durzel]

1. Forums are a lightning rod for complaints. You're not really going to hear about people saying "yeah my car has been perfect", because it's not really a conversation. That being said - it sounds like you're sorted in terms of service convenience, should the worst happen.
   
   
2. This really depends on your mileage. If you do loads of miles, then you're going to be charging regularly (obviously) so the extra time it takes to charge will necessarily have to factor in to the thought process. That being said Tesla have the supercharging network and assuming you are in a reasonable proximity of them then you don't really have much to worry about on this front. If you're doing a typical (i.e. most people) amount of mileage then I think it's a non-issue. I would say that having a home charger makes a massive difference - just being able to plug in and go in your house and do whatever you'd normally do always beats being away from home, even at a supercharger.
   
   
3. Hard to answer this one. What I would say is that I would not rely on second hand prices being artificially high indefinitely. At the same time I do wonder about whether the craziness of the stock markets will persist into 2022, there are voices talking about how its unsustainable. If you think you can make the capital work better elsewhere, then leasing or PCP makes sense. There's no perfect answer to that I don't think.
   
   
4. The biggest complaint I have about the car is that there are basic things that should work a lot better, particularly given it's a car made by the tech company. Auto headlights and auto wipers are atrocious for a car at this price level. Depending on how much you drive this could be quite frustrating. I would also say that the autopilot side of things is impressive, but it hasn't really moved (in my opinion) in the last 2 years at least. People blame UNECE etc but I think ultimately Tesla doesn't particularly care about developing features for non-US markets, or nowhere near as much.
   
   
5. With all of the faults and quirks Tesla is still the EV brand. I wouldn't have another car, but that might easily change as the competitors get better, particularly into 2022. I feel like Tesla are resting on their laurels somewhat, and other marques who are getting serious about EVs now are bringing stuff to market which is built better, with features you've come to rely on that just work, etc. They are still pretty much stuck in the old school ICE "options and servicing" model, but that might change with time.

Hope this helps!

 

[qwickshot]

Just bare in mind your posting on what for the most part is an owners forum and have some level of personal investment, you should treat responses with some healthy scepticism. But to answer your questions:

1) All reports I have seen is that made in China cars are far better than those older cars made in the USA. I have a made in China car and was delivered in December and other than a couple of light scratches which I think the delivery cleaners put in it and Tesla polished out, there was nothing wrong with it and it seems very well built. My experience getting the scratch fixed was very good but your mileage may vary.

Some cars have been missing USB ports but Tesla are fixing that. Compare that to BMW who are deleting significant features and charging you the same price. Ignore anyone spouting panel gaps.

2) I went from having an ICE with a 600 mile fuel tank to a standard range car. Absolutely no concerns or regrets on that front. Setting off with a car topped up to full every day, why worry?

3) I did a big down payment and took the Tesla loan. Have you looked at the RWD? It’s plenty fast enough and the real world difference in range between the long and the standard is only about 30-40 miles but it’s £7k more expensive. The RWD is very much the one to go for these days unless you really want the extra speed or really need those extra 30-40 miles. Just bare in mind, the average daily mileage in the U.K. is actually significantly less than 30 miles. Outside the speed, extra range, some led fog lights, and a couple of extra speakers, the cars are pretty much the same. RWD range is 200-250, LR is 230-290 (worst winter, best summer on a long run).

4) speaks windows, delivery scratches and missing missing USB ports. The cars under warranty and get fixed so not much to worry about there.

With the car itself there is:
The auto lights are poor, the headlights themselves are great, just the auto high beam function isn’t very good at all and I tend to do it manually on the stalk.
The auto wipers can be a little inconsistent and don’t deal with very light mist very well but otherwise I find them fine.
The ride is firm, great for cornering at speed but I’d test drive the car if that may be an issue for you. My other car is an MX-5 which is also firm.
FSD is pointless don’t but it.

5) probably another Tesla if the status quo is maintained but who knows what the future will bring. I’m not brand loyal at all.

 

[Xdama]

Hi all!

Im currently in the market for a new car, my faithful old diesel Peugeot is starting to show its age with random faults and the garage bills are starting to add up.

Naturally I’d consider a second hand car to get best value but with the market the way it is at the moment cars that are around 3 years old are fetching the same if not more than a brand spanker which leaves you wondering why not just go new? Obviously there’s the supply issues but cars are starting to creep through and yet the second hand market is stubbornly not moving!

So one of the cars shortlisted is the Tesla Model 3 Long Range, purely as I’m curious about EV life and know that in the next decade we’ll all have to grab that bull by the horns. As Tesla is a company that appears to go against the grain with other car manufacturers, I’ve got a few questions:

1. Customer after sales service - you only need to type Tesla in to Google and you’ll see some ‘horror stories’ (same as any car brand) such as cars turning up with missing parts, spare parts being a nightmare to source or simply issues that mean the car needs Tesla to fix it. Is this a common theme or a case of the loudest getting heard the most? I’m fortunate to have a Service Centre right around the corner (Chester) which I’m guessing gives me a desk to bang my fist on if the car decides to not play as it should?

2. Lifestyle change - the biggest ‘scare’ from the outside looking in on EV life is knowing you can’t just refuel by spending 5 minutes at a fuel pump and need to factor in charging accordingly. I’ll be coming from 15 years of fossil fuel cars/bikes which isn’t as long as plenty of the folk on here but it’s nice to know what praise and teething problems people had making the ‘switch’.

3. Own? Lease? PCP? - there’s no denying that £50k for a car is a LOT of money, the most expensive car I owned was a £20k Focus RS 10 years ago but that was eventually chopped in to fund the house deposit and I’ve been riding around in bangers every since, not out of financial constraint but purely because I like the idea of having a cheap runaround so it’s natural to feel the buttocks clench at the idea of having to suck up 50 big ones. What do most of the folk on here do as I can appreciate there’s a variety of incomes & variables at play.

4. Common issues - nothing is perfect and it’s a case of having a car you’re happy with quirks to suit your tastes, but what issues do the M3 show? Are they just minor annoyances or do they stop your day dead in its tracks?

5. What next? - I can appreciate a lot of owners here are coming to the end of the relationship with their current Tesla and I’m curious to see what they’d consider next, another Tesla? A different brand EV? Back to dinosaur juice?

I’m a recent convert to the 3LR (just over a month). I had BMW diesels prior to this but ridiculous servicing program (5 times in 6months) left me feeling I’d had enough.
My wife has had a Kona E for 12mths though so I sort of had an insight into EV life beforehand.
I don’t know about aftersales service (not had to use that yet) so my pros & cons below:-
Pros
Cheaper to run (even with energy prices rising)
No road tax (as yet)
Seriously quick
Build quality not BMW but certainly VW (imo)
Luggage capacity surprisingly good (after a 630GT)
Very quick to warm the cabin compared to ICE cars. You can even preheat using the app. So no de icing the screen.
Surprisingly comfortable I expected a harsh ride but on 18” wheels it’s fine.

Cons
Insurance in UK is expensive
The auto wipers are not very good
Adaptive cruise control (TACC) imo is not very good (disclaimer- I don’t like adaptive cruise on any car)
Tesla like to change the screen layout when updating. So controls move & hide lol
Dipping wing mirrors when reversing dip too far so useless.
Tyres don’t protrude the rims so easy to damage alloys. Other cars fit tyres with rim protection as standard.

I lease mine through my business because 1% BIK this yr raising to 2% next year.
Will I stay with Tesla at the end, probably not. I think at the end of my lease there will be better EV’s out there with more range, less updating/changing controls & better garage networks.
The main selling points for me were superchargers, range/4wd, availability. As we already had an EV we also already had a 7kW charger at home. I mainly charge there or at work, supercharger is nice if on a trip. I never have just stopped for 5min splash n dash with ICE cars. I find on a trip pull up plug in at SC go for a pee, get coffee, bite to eat maybe, check emails/text etc …. Car is charged. It really doesn’t make that much difference to me personally.
I also considered MachE ext range (put off by top range only RWD), Kia EV6 not enough range, Polestar 2 - no dealers near me, BMW i4 - previous experience with BMW service regime, RWD to get decent range, based on an ICE car so has transmission tunnel still. All the above also had 4-5 months minimum lead time too whereas the Tesla was just over a month.

 

[Dilly]

I have a 2020 3LR. There have been improvements since my model but I’ll happily stick with “old design”
It’s an “interesting“ car to drive, software updates change the car quite a bit over time. I’ve just received the most up to date version so I’m right up there with newer models.
if you can home charge, it makes life very easy. Range anxiety is not usually something Tesla owners suffer.
I’ve had no major issues. There are a couple of minor things that will wait until a service centre opens locally this year.
It’s my second EV since 2018. Don’t miss ICE one bit. No high fuel costs, no road tax, no car keys, warm as toast car sorted from my phone. There’s much to love.

 

[Jason71]

Just bare in mind your posting on what for the most part is an owners forum and have some level of personal investment, you should treat responses with some healthy scepticism. But to answer your questions:

I try not to be a grammar Nazi because I don't want to be "that guy" and also because I'm mildly dyslexic myself so it would generally be a bit of a pot kettle situation.
But having said all that I have to do this one as a public service. The expression you are looking for here is "bear in mind".
"bare in mind" means something completely different.
Could be worse though. I had an email from a customer service person a couple of weeks ago asking "bare with me" and she didn't even offer to buy me dinner!

 

[Drew57]

As you can see from my profile, I'm local to you and have been driving a Model 3 LR for nearly two years.

1. The nearest SC when I ordered was Stockport and I received excellent support, especially from Daly (Sales) and Sue (Tech) , Both are now at the Chester SC and on the two occasions I have needed assistance they have been equally helpful. As for parts availability, my parked car was damaged by a third party vehicle in a carpark & a replacement door was supplied to the repairer within 5 working days so I couldn't find fault.

2. Coming from a traditional vehicle it does take a while to adjust from being able to quickly refuel anywhere. However when you experience it, an EV is a far simpler proposition, it can be charged when it sits unused at home which for many of us is more than enough for the following day. If and when more is needed on a journey, the Supercharger network is convenient, reliable and fast.

3. I purchased outright so will leave this for others who have used alternative payment methods.

4. I actually expected quality issues when I ordered but in fact (as with many other satisfied owners) my US built 2020 car was basically perfect from new and still is. One 15 minute Ranger visit when new and a replacement eSim at Stockport are the only issues I've faced, both handled promptly and professionally. The more recent Chinese Model 3s have an even better reputation for consistent quality.

5. I've test driven a few other EVs and am still likely to swap over to another Tesla, probably a Model Y LR. Nothing I have seen yet has the charging and driving efficiency which ultimately results in lower running costs or the driving experience of a Tesla. Like it or not, there is always the anticipation of what the next software update will bring, good or bad and overall much of that experience has improved during my ownership.

For anyone considering a Tesla, there are many positives but it's also worth mentioning that their corporate attitude can often leave a lot to be desired and many of us face varying degrees of frustration. The positives (for me) do far outweigh the negatives though.

 

[Mrklaw]

you could also consider the RWD which still had a decent range and quite a bit less expensive? Although still a lot.

 

[AutomaticMan]

I don’t have my Tesla yet, but I’ve had other EVs and even without the Supercharger network the transition from ICE isn’t that hard. As lots of people have said, you plug in when you get home in the evening and it is charged up for you by the morning. Easy. No more realising you need to fill the car up when you’re on your way to work and already late for your first meeting.

And on a longer trip, after a 3+ hour drive aren’t you ready to stretch your legs and go to the toilet anyway? Just plug in while you do.

 

[Filbert1884]

Hi all!

Im currently in the market for a new car, my faithful old diesel Peugeot is starting to show its age with random faults and the garage bills are starting to add up.

Naturally I’d consider a second hand car to get best value but with the market the way it is at the moment cars that are around 3 years old are fetching the same if not more than a brand spanker which leaves you wondering why not just go new? Obviously there’s the supply issues but cars are starting to creep through and yet the second hand market is stubbornly not moving!

So one of the cars shortlisted is the Tesla Model 3 Long Range, purely as I’m curious about EV life and know that in the next decade we’ll all have to grab that bull by the horns. As Tesla is a company that appears to go against the grain with other car manufacturers, I’ve got a few questions:

1. Customer after sales service - you only need to type Tesla in to Google and you’ll see some ‘horror stories’ (same as any car brand) such as cars turning up with missing parts, spare parts being a nightmare to source or simply issues that mean the car needs Tesla to fix it. Is this a common theme or a case of the loudest getting heard the most? I’m fortunate to have a Service Centre right around the corner (Chester) which I’m guessing gives me a desk to bang my fist on if the car decides to not play as it should?

2. Lifestyle change - the biggest ‘scare’ from the outside looking in on EV life is knowing you can’t just refuel by spending 5 minutes at a fuel pump and need to factor in charging accordingly. I’ll be coming from 15 years of fossil fuel cars/bikes which isn’t as long as plenty of the folk on here but it’s nice to know what praise and teething problems people had making the ‘switch’.

3. Own? Lease? PCP? - there’s no denying that £50k for a car is a LOT of money, the most expensive car I owned was a £20k Focus RS 10 years ago but that was eventually chopped in to fund the house deposit and I’ve been riding around in bangers every since, not out of financial constraint but purely because I like the idea of having a cheap runaround so it’s natural to feel the buttocks clench at the idea of having to suck up 50 big ones. What do most of the folk on here do as I can appreciate there’s a variety of incomes & variables at play.

4. Common issues - nothing is perfect and it’s a case of having a car you’re happy with quirks to suit your tastes, but what issues do the M3 show? Are they just minor annoyances or do they stop your day dead in its tracks?

5. What next? - I can appreciate a lot of owners here are coming to the end of the relationship with their current Tesla and I’m curious to see what they’d consider next, another Tesla? A different brand EV? Back to dinosaur juice?

You've had some pretty decent detailed answers here so I will take a different approach.

I've had BMWs for the last 19 years, with a RR Evoque and a Volvo XC60 chucked in there as second family cars too.

I've had my 3LR (leased) for 1 month now, and on the whole love it!

Test drive one, and if you're anything like me, you'll know if it's the car for you within a minute or two.

Personally I wouldn't fork out £50k for a car unless I had at least 250k of liquid assets (cash), makes little financial sense when that cash could be invested elsewhere....

The thing I was told several years ago, when I used to always buy my cars outright.... if you were going to buy a house, and you knew 100% that in 3 years time it would be worth less than what you paid for it, would you but the house or rent it? I've not bought a car outright since. But it's a personal choice.

As for charging vs refuelling, unless you regularly drive 100+ miles a day, every day it really isn't an issue, and even if you do, with Tesla's supercharger network and public charging, it's a non-issue.

Good luck!

 

[gangzoom]

I can appreciate a lot of owners here are coming to the end of the relationship with their current Tesla and I’m curious to see what they’d consider next, another Tesla? A different brand EV? Back to dinosaur juice?

Coming to the end??!!

This was one of the first time I saw a Model S in the metal some 7 years ago...

than some 12 months later I was luckily enough to visit the first SC site at Space X/Tesla design studios thanks to a forum member...

We've had our Tesla for coming up to 5 years in March, honestly its been the MOST UNRELIABLE car we have ever owned by a country mile......But you probably wouldn't be surprised if I also told you its the BEST CAR I have ever owned by many a country mile. The Tesla is now pretty much part of the family, I cannot see us selling it for a long long time yet. Sadly we currently don't have the available funds to get a 3/Y to run along side the X, but for us the only car I would replace our Tesla with is another one.

 

[roblab]

Dipping wing mirrors when reversing dip too far so useless.

You do know you can adjust the "dip" on the mirrors, don't you? It's part of the set up. Different drivers need the mirrors adjusted differently, and just because it's part of the back-up function doesn't mean you can't adjust it. Spend a few minutes and play with it.

 

[Xdama]

Along with working out other functions lol. As I said in another post, I have yet to sit in the car and properly play with it. Unfortunately the collection day got put back so I literally picked it up, loaded it up and went for my 2 weeks away for work. Not much time 8n the car, 12-14hrs a day offshore doesn’t give much time to play afterwards. Then the wonderfull update which moved a load of things around so, plus trying to sell/buy a house, now offshore for 2weeks solid, car left in a car park. In the 5 weeks I’ve had it, I think I’ve actually been in it for less than 20hrs, which is unheard of for me
Thanks for the heads up though

 

[nunp]

It has been reported the MIC models are better built but in my experience they are still pretty poor - doors do not align, boot lid also and front wing is off. So check exterior carefully - interior on the other had was perfect. Maybe I’ve been unlucky but I’m now on my 3rd service appointment in 4 weeks of ownership. Still really love the car - just - all depends how they sort my issues.

Charging at home will mean you can mostly avoid any range anxiety - the LR has one of the longest range in any EV. I’ve leased my LR.

 

[roadcred]

I am on my 3rd M3 about to change to an MY.
For 40 years I previously had big Jags, big BMWs RRs and my wife had Smaller BMWs and volvos.
Yes the "quality " in a big BMW is better but dont you pay for it! Also servicing 6 times a year has become an expensive joke. Depreciation I have suffered over those 40 years probably exceeds £250k!
On 1 M3P- , and 2 M3LR s I have incurred next to zero depreciation. Also only service costs have been my seasonal change in and out of winter wheels which I need to travel in EU in winter. The 3 cars I have had are the 3 fastest in terms of acceleration, cheapest in terms of running and repairs that I have ever had! Yes the Freemont vehicles are VW or BMW3 quality inside but both my current M3LR from China and the Model Y from China that I drove on Sunday are in a different place as regards build quality.
Iwould sincerely recommend buying an M£ or MY cash or loan...not lease as you want to benefit from the lack of depreciation when you sell it!

 

[Rooster6655]

I think the negative stories shouldn’t really be ignored as it does give an insight of things that can go wrong.

My experience of customer service has been generally poor but has improved over the last year with issues being resolved in a week.

The main problem with taking your car in is now the lack of loaner cars and it being replaced with Uber credit which is fine if you live in the big city that has good coverage, I waited almost an hour recently.

Software bugs/issues, basically if there are any software issues nobody can do anything about it and seems support doesn’t get anyway with it.

Charging is a non issue if you have a home charger.

Driving experience is the best.

 

[Filbert1884]

BTW, I don't have a home charger, and charge via 3 pin plug, and range still isn't an issue, as it's rare that I need to do 100+ miles 2 days in a row. A 10 hour overnight charge will replenish around 70-80 miles of real world range.

 

[94jdh]

Having now covered over 40k miles, charging hasn't been a problem until this last weekend. A visit to Whitby on a relatively cold day left me with only 31% charge (usually return home without charge).
On returning to the car 4 hours later this was down to 28%. My options were Scotch Corner with 1% on arrival (too risky) or Bridlington (Genie point 50kWh). Arrived at Bridlington with 7% and fast charger out of action. Luckily, 7kWh charger working and sat there until I could get enough distance to Beverly ( 3 charging options) - then sat on a 50kWh charger until enough to get home.
A journey that would normally be 2 hours ended up being 4.5 hours - in hindsight should have used one on the way up ( non supercharger as nearest would have been scotch Corner).