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There is no SEC investigation. WSJ was lied to by a short seller.

Sorry. not even close to true. In this sort of alleged 10b5 case the only thing to investigate is to interview and review documents from the issuer itself. How else do they conduct any investigation? Read these forums? Read seeking alpha? Ask stockholders "Don't you wish you knew about the car crash sooner?" No. The only way to investigate this sort of allegation is to contact the issuer. What did they know, when did they know it.

Tesla has gone on record saying that they haven't been contacted. So then they likely have to disclose if they ever are contacted about this. They haven't done so. The SEC wouldn't be sitting on their hands this long.

Therefore I think it now looks like there is no SEC investigation and the WSJ was lied to and didn't fact check their source and probably got taken by a now squeezed short seller.

If the SEC is investigating anything, it is likely investigating attempted (but laughably unsuccessful) market manipulation by the short-seller who made a complaint to the SEC and tried to get the WSJ to publish that as an investigation.


You may not like it, but this is how the SEC (and government) works. I've represented issuers that have had SEC investigations hanging over them for YEARS. If you think that a week or two is too long for the SEC to wait before moving forward, or making public disclosure of what they are looking at, then you have a different experience in dealing with the SEC than I have.

I am no special pleader for the SEC. I think that like many government agencies, they are not worth the money and time they take up. They tend to be politicized and, for lack of a better word, arbitrary. If they exit to protect investors and ensure fair financial markets, they do a very poor job. I would be happy to see them prevented from going on fishing expeditions and witch hunts (they do it all the time).

With all that said, they exist, they're not going away, they're only getting more powerful and this is how they work. And Elon Musk should know better than to taunt them, as that only makes things worse. And as much as many people want to impose their own definitions of materiality on this situation, or confuse damages with materiality, the law is pretty clear on the definition of materiality and the fact that the incident may lead to a curtailment of the functionality of AP or even new government regulations on AP like activities is pretty clear evidence of materiality. Not damages, not certainty, not facts, just materiality.

I will go out on a limb here and predict that the next time Tesla has a filing that includes a Risk Factors section, there will be revised disclosure that focuses more on the risks of AP and regulation of AP.

There's nothing more I can say, as a securities law practitioner, on what has happened, so this will be my last post on the topic.
 
You may not like it, but this is how the SEC (and government) works. I've represented issuers that have had SEC investigations hanging over them for YEARS. If you think that a week or two is too long for the SEC to wait before moving forward, or making public disclosure of what they are looking at, then you have a different experience in dealing with the SEC than I have.

I am no special pleader for the SEC. I think that like many government agencies, they are not worth the money and time they take up. They tend to be politicized and, for lack of a better word, arbitrary. If they exit to protect investors and ensure fair financial markets, they do a very poor job. I would be happy to see them prevented from going on fishing expeditions and witch hunts (they do it all the time).

With all that said, they exist, they're not going away, they're only getting more powerful and this is how they work. And Elon Musk should know better than to taunt them, as that only makes things worse. And as much as many people want to impose their own definitions of materiality on this situation, or confuse damages with materiality, the law is pretty clear on the definition of materiality and the fact that the incident may lead to a curtailment of the functionality of AP or even new government regulations on AP like activities is pretty clear evidence of materiality. Not damages, not certainty, not facts, just materiality.

I will go out on a limb here and predict that the next time Tesla has a filing that includes a Risk Factors section, there will be revised disclosure that focuses more on the risks of AP and regulation of AP.

There's nothing more I can say, as a securities law practitioner, on what has happened, so this will be my last post on the topic.

sure investigations can take a long time. But there has to be some kind of Investigation. in this kind of case the only thing to investigate would involve contacting the issuer. They haven't contacted the issuer. So there is no investigation . there is nothing else to investigate except to contact the issuer.
 
There are plenty of things that the SEC can do as part of the investigation without contacting Tesla. The SEC can be fact checking and investigating the timeline of events based on Tesla's disclosures and public statements since the accident.

If the investigation is ongoing, eventually the SEC will need to contact Tesla but it is not unreasonable for the SEC to want to gather information first without tipping off the subjects of their investigation to avoid witness and evidence tampering if violations did occur.

On the flip side, it's also not unreasonable to assume that the SEC leaked information of an investigation to the press as a warning shot to Tesla and Elon Musk even though they have no plans to pursue a serious investigation.

The fact that Tesla hasn't been contacted yet does not mean they're not under investigation. They could be and simply just don't know about it yet.

My biggest question on this whole timeline of events publicized to date is still why it took Tesla almost two weeks, and a day after their offering closed, to send their engineers out to Florida to download the logs for the car. Was this a conscious decision for plausible deniability on the severity of the accident to push it off and avoid negatively affecting their offering? The timing is awfully convenient for Tesla.
 
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My understanding is:
May 7th accident
May 18th data log collection from wreck
May 18 and 19th stock offer
May 31st analysis complete, determined AP involved.

Please correct if any error.

An important date that is missing is when Tesla even learned it was a fatality. The cell antenna likely came off with the roof so the car wouldn't have reported an accident. I don't think first responders call the car mfrs when they find cars in an accident. When did Tesla even first learn of the accident, and then when did it learn that auto pilot was even on or not? Probably didn't learn that autopilot was engaged until their tech downloaded the data log from the car on the 18th at the very earliest.

There are plenty of things that the SEC can do as part of the investigation without contacting Tesla. The SEC can be fact checking and investigating the timeline of events based on Tesla's disclosures and public statements since the accident.

On the flip side, it's also not unreasonable to assume that the SEC leaked information of an investigation to the press as a warning shot to Tesla and Elon Musk even though they have no plans to pursue a serious investigation.

The fact that Tesla hasn't been contacted yet does not mean they're not under investigation. They could be and simply just don't know about it yet.

My biggest question on this whole timeline of events publicized to date is still why it took Tesla almost two weeks, and a day after their offering closed, to send their engineers out to Florida to download the logs for the car. Was this a conscious decision for plausible deniability on the severity of the accident to push it off and avoid negatively affecting their offering? The timing is awfully convenient for Tesla.

"warning shot" ? What is that even supposed to mean? Is the gov't agency involved in 19th century longship warfare -- Master and Commander style?

The only factual investigation that is relevant is what did Tesla know and when did they know it. You can't learn that unless you contact them.
 
What I am inferring from Eclectic and a few other posts is that, Koch brothers and other influential old fossil fuel related industry heavy weights, can and will absolutely use SEC to shut Tesla down. This 'shot across the bow' is technically from those who want to see Tesla close shop.

SEC is just one of the tools they have in their hands. NTSB is another. WSJ, LAT and NYT is another. Not one of them will bring down Tesla on their own, but death by thousand cuts.

That is what I see happening here. High level of scrutiny for things that won't even be on the radar for other manufacturers. Blown up charges. Trumped up charges.

Coming up next: IRS audit on Elon's finances. Is Tesla using child labor in Ghana's copper mines?
 
What I am inferring from Eclectic and a few other posts is that, Koch brothers and other influential old fossil fuel related industry heavy weights, can and will absolutely use SEC to shut Tesla down. This 'shot across the bow' is technically from those who want to see Tesla close shop.

SEC is just one of the tools they have in their hands. NTSB is another. WSJ, LAT and NYT is another. Not one of them will bring down Tesla on their own, but death by thousand cuts.

That is what I see happening here. High level of scrutiny for things that won't even be on the radar for other manufacturers. Blown up charges. Trumped up charges.

Coming up next: IRS audit on Elon's finances. Is Tesla using child labor in Ghana's copper mines?
@Eclectic was just speculating that it was *possible* the SEC was reacting to Elon's statements minimizing the various filing processes such as "boilerplate" and other off hand statements he made. You're taking that mean there is some grand conspiracy going on here. There isn't.
 
What I am inferring from Eclectic and a few other posts is that, Koch brothers and other influential old fossil fuel related industry heavy weights, can and will absolutely use SEC to shut Tesla down. This 'shot across the bow' is technically from those who want to see Tesla close shop.

SEC is just one of the tools they have in their hands. NTSB is another. WSJ, LAT and NYT is another. Not one of them will bring down Tesla on their own, but death by thousand cuts.

That is what I see happening here. High level of scrutiny for things that won't even be on the radar for other manufacturers. Blown up charges. Trumped up charges.

Coming up next: IRS audit on Elon's finances. Is Tesla using child labor in Ghana's copper mines?

If by "inferring" you mean "totally imagining in my irrational delusion" then yes I agree.
 
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@Eclectic was just speculating that it was *possible* the SEC was reacting to Elon's statements minimizing the various filing processes such as "boilerplate" and other off hand statements he made. You're taking that mean there is some grand conspiracy going on here. There isn't.

Ok, let's go with the 'just speculating' :rolleyes: then and keep the same nonchalant attitude - to be fair - and also say mkjayakumar was also 'just speculating'. Now we can all be friends.
 
You may not like it, but this is how the SEC (and government) works. I've represented issuers that have had SEC investigations hanging over them for YEARS. If you think that a week or two is too long for the SEC to wait before moving forward, or making public disclosure of what they are looking at, then you have a different experience in dealing with the SEC than I have.

I am no special pleader for the SEC. I think that like many government agencies, they are not worth the money and time they take up. They tend to be politicized and, for lack of a better word, arbitrary. If they exit to protect investors and ensure fair financial markets, they do a very poor job. I would be happy to see them prevented from going on fishing expeditions and witch hunts (they do it all the time).

With all that said, they exist, they're not going away, they're only getting more powerful and this is how they work. And Elon Musk should know better than to taunt them, as that only makes things worse. And as much as many people want to impose their own definitions of materiality on this situation, or confuse damages with materiality, the law is pretty clear on the definition of materiality and the fact that the incident may lead to a curtailment of the functionality of AP or even new government regulations on AP like activities is pretty clear evidence of materiality. Not damages, not certainty, not facts, just materiality.

I will go out on a limb here and predict that the next time Tesla has a filing that includes a Risk Factors section, there will be revised disclosure that focuses more on the risks of AP and regulation of AP.

There's nothing more I can say, as a securities law practitioner, on what has happened, so this will be my last post on the topic.

How is that SEC investigation going for you? Has the WSJ given any updates from their great source? Has Tesla disclosed the investigation in their filings?

Oh I guess not. Looks like the WSJ was reporting a lie from a short seller as a fact.
 
How is that SEC investigation going for you? Has the WSJ given any updates from their great source? Has Tesla disclosed the investigation in their filings?

Oh I guess not. Looks like the WSJ was reporting a lie from a short seller as a fact.
I've worked with them several times it can take a long, long time or they can just drop it. It will be interesting to see what if anything is in Tesla's next 10-k filing though. @Eclectic never said he had inside sources that I recall did he?

Here's their latest filings:
SEC Filings | Tesla Motors
 
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What I am inferring from Eclectic and a few other posts is that, Koch brothers and other influential old fossil fuel related industry heavy weights, can and will absolutely use SEC to shut Tesla down. This 'shot across the bow' is technically from those who want to see Tesla close shop.

SEC is just one of the tools they have in their hands. NTSB is another. WSJ, LAT and NYT is another. Not one of them will bring down Tesla on their own, but death by thousand cuts.

That is what I see happening here. High level of scrutiny for things that won't even be on the radar for other manufacturers. Blown up charges. Trumped up charges.

Coming up next: IRS audit on Elon's finances. Is Tesla using child labor in Ghana's copper mines?

Actually, I think NTSB/NHTSA investigations will help Tesla in the end by bringing facts to light while squashing all the speculation and rumors happily posted and re-posted by online media.

Setting up autonomous vehicles guidelines/standards/test and even more clarity and regulations is another way government can help Tesla and others. Recent Self Driving Regulations is a good start.
 
Actually, I think NTSB/NHTSA investigations will help Tesla in the end by bringing facts to light while squashing all the speculation and rumors happily posted and re-posted by online media.

Setting up autonomous vehicles guidelines/standards/test and even more clarity and regulations is another way government can help Tesla and others. Recent Self Driving Regulations is a good start.
This is about something different. All of the financial news outlets reported that the SEC was looking into whether Tesla should have disclosed the fatal crash in Florida in their stock offering filings around the same time. Elon didn't think it was material.
 
This is about something different. All of the financial news outlets reported that the SEC was looking into whether Tesla should have disclosed the fatal crash in Florida in their stock offering filings around the same time. Elon didn't think it was material.

That happened in July if I recall correctly, has there been any updates? Anyhow, I was just replying to @mkjayakumar who listed NTSB and government as one of Tesla's foes which I don't think is the case.
 
You may not like it, but this is how the SEC (and government) works. I've represented issuers that have had SEC investigations hanging over them for YEARS. If you think that a week or two is too long for the SEC to wait before moving forward, or making public disclosure of what they are looking at, then you have a different experience in dealing with the SEC than I have.

I am no special pleader for the SEC. I think that like many government agencies, they are not worth the money and time they take up. They tend to be politicized and, for lack of a better word, arbitrary. If they exit to protect investors and ensure fair financial markets, they do a very poor job. I would be happy to see them prevented from going on fishing expeditions and witch hunts (they do it all the time).

With all that said, they exist, they're not going away, they're only getting more powerful and this is how they work. And Elon Musk should know better than to taunt them, as that only makes things worse. And as much as many people want to impose their own definitions of materiality on this situation, or confuse damages with materiality, the law is pretty clear on the definition of materiality and the fact that the incident may lead to a curtailment of the functionality of AP or even new government regulations on AP like activities is pretty clear evidence of materiality. Not damages, not certainty, not facts, just materiality.

I will go out on a limb here and predict that the next time Tesla has a filing that includes a Risk Factors section, there will be revised disclosure that focuses more on the risks of AP and regulation of AP.

There's nothing more I can say, as a securities law practitioner, on what has happened, so this will be my last post on the topic.


Any update on your sec investigation? And how are you calculating that damage claim?

I wonder if the source for this lie is also the source the (again wsj) new article on solarcity....
 
Any update on your sec investigation? And how are you calculating that damage claim?

I wonder if the source for this lie is also the source the (again wsj) new article on solarcity....
You are very uninformed on how the process works. It could take years very the SEC to publish their findings if any. I had one that was open for 4 years on a very minor matter.
BTW, it looks like @Eclectic may have been right on the Rak Factors section this round and I think/hope Elon has learned his lesson wrt the SEC and the NHTSA regulators.

I haven't read the Solar City article yet so I'll hold comment for a couple of days.