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Sensationalistic titles with no content/censorship

Discussion in 'Site Feedback' started by ModelS1079, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    #61 FlasherZ, Jan 8, 2013
    Last edited: Jan 8, 2013
    Okay. Let's wait for ModelS1079 to post his situation.

    I hope that anyone who reads this thread understands the gravity of the situation regarding an explosion, a fire, and a Tesla. We wouldn't have this conversation -- and would be waiting for an update -- if this weren't a potential life-safety issue. If this were ModelS1079's post that "my radio wouldn't tune any stations, not really a good thing when trying to show your neighbors your Tesla", and the post were moderated, I wouldn't have had such a strong reaction.

    I'm sorry if my motives were misinterpreted by the volunteer moderators who give plenty of time to make this a good place for us to post regarding our fantastic devices. I do not apologize for my rather strong opinion that transparency is much better than censorship, under any circumstances, and I do not stand down from my position. Change the titles, reorganize threads, temporarily put them in a special section for low-content / high speculation threads, but don't suppress content unless it is an obvious violation or attack.

    I do see I am in the minority and I understand moderators believe they should censor those types of things. My experience leads me to believe otherwise. Perhaps I'm trying too hard to convince you of the need for transparency, but as I am in the minority here, I will do as the minority in a Supreme Court decision do: I respectfully dissent.

    Moderators: happy new year, and thank you for what you do in keeping this community within a box.
     
  2. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    FlasherZ, time to let this go I believe. I expressed my concern too, above, that the post might have been moderated over a potentially serious issue. I'm completely satisfied that it was moderated for very legit reasons. As a moderator of PriusChat for over 9 years and having gone through the sort of exponential growth spirt TMC is experiencing on more than one occasion there, I can fully appreciate the work these guys are doing and the challenges of doing it well.

    Keep in mind...
    1)This is not a democracy. We can share our ideas and concerns about how the site is run, but the ultimate decisions are in the hands of the moderators and the invisible site owner.

    2)while many of their decisions might not seem right on the surface, there's often background info or reasons for doing so. It's prudent to be wary and to make sure the site doesn't fall into the trap of being a puppet of Tesla, I would lean heavily toward giving the mods the benefit of the doubt. PriusChat has connections (non-fiduciary) with Toyota as do the moderators individually...it's a fine line to walk. The posts by George, the surreptitious contacts from Tesla to members who've posted about issues here, and even the recent "top menu" puzzles suggest a similar relationship here...caution is warranted, but not accusations.

    3)the mods will make mistakes, forgive them, it's a tough job; don't assume malice or intentionally covering up. There are lots of ways to handle different problems and this forum's personality is evolving.


    Evan, Via Tapatalk
     
  3. efusco

    efusco Moderator - Model S & X forums

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    Looks like your mea culpa came as I was typing....


    Evan, Via Tapatalk
     
  4. doug

    doug Administrator / Head Moderator

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    I came to this late, but I just want to point out that there was no actual info to censor. The content of the post was essentially "Gotta run but will share the story ASAP. Yes the car is fine." The decision was made to hold that post until the OP came back with actual info, which I think is perfectly reasonable.

    As a moderator, many things come down to a judgement call. Members may not always agree with those decisions, but it is what it is.
     
  5. Dave EV

    Dave EV Active Member

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    Seems like everyone is missing FlasherZ's point.

    1. He's only trying to provide feedback on moderation.
    2. He feels that the moderation in this instance could have been handled better.

    There is some grey-area here since most of the "content" ended up in the subject of the post, but when moving the post, that content could have been moved to the body during moderation keeping all the content intact.

    Had that been done instead, all this hoopla could have been avoided. Perhaps the moderators could take that under consideration the next time a similar situation arises.
     
  6. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    He went far beyond simply saying the moderation could have been done better.

    Actually, this started because ModelS1079 made a one sentence 'See Recharging thread for little story about my explosion and house fire last night. Not the waybtomimpress your neighbors with our new Tesla.' after the post with 'Explosion and fire!' in the title was put in moderation because it had no content. Nothing was lost with the move.
     
  7. Krugerrand

    Krugerrand Well-Known Member

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    Not sure how his point could have been missed after SEVEN pages of being repeated over and over and over again. Right now I've a vision of a pitbull gnawing on someone's arm - just because it's there - while in the hand is a perfectly good piece of grade A beef. *yawn*
     
  8. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    I completely agree. In the interest of (hopefully) letting the fire die down, I'm starting a separate post in the Site Feedback forum with a suggestion.

    Mods - Please feel free to move the post here if you prefer. Whatever keeps the drama minimal is best, IMO.
     
  9. brianman

    brianman Burrito Founder

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    Suggestion: "Open moderation" for established forum members

    I understand the need to block posting entirely for brand new members (few or zero posts) as a countermeasure to bots and spammers. I appreciate the filtering the mods undertake on this front to make for a better forum. Thank you. This post is not about such moderation.


    For "troubling posts" by non-new members...

    Suggestion:
    1. Create a sub-forum titled "Under evaluation" or "Drama queen" or whatever.
    2. For "established" forum members, whenever posts need to be moderated for content or tone move them to the the sub-forum from #1.
    3. (Optional) Only allow "established" forum members to read the sub-forum from #1.
    4. (Optional) Add voodoo to the posts or the sub-forum to foil external search engines from scavenging these posts (and caching them).

    As a starting point, I'll pick a number and say that a member with 50 posts that has managed to not get banned qualifies as "established member".
     
  10. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    This is a good way to handle these situations rather than hiding content.

    Obviously even if an established member throws an outright attack (FlasherZ is a nincompoop!) it should be subject to immediate moderation by hiding...

    A post that needs more information before it is deemed of value can go there with a mod note as such.

    Perfectly reasonable suggestion. Supports transparency.
     
  11. Johan

    Johan Funds for M3 secured. Contingent on wife aproval.

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    I dont' really know yet what to make of this whole thing, but I'm making a post here anyway so that I can later edit this post and insert my opinion, or make one more post somewhere else with that opinion.

    - - - Updated - - -

    See how redundant that was? Same with the OP. Well done mods. Will be interesting to hear what the actual story was, if there was one worthy of hearing.
     
  12. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    OMG. That was great, Johan.
     
  13. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    Time for a group hug? :biggrin:
     
  14. Al Sherman

    Al Sherman It's about THIS car.

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    I still think the group hug was a good idea.
     
  15. NigelM

    NigelM Recovering Member

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    While worthy of consideration, one has to take into account why posts are put into moderation. Here's a non-exclusive list of the most common reasons:


    1. Spam -do you really want to see those?
    2. Advertising- ditto.
    3. Rude, fighting posts - Kinda defeats the object if 90% of members can see what was written.
    4. Bad language - ditto.
    5. Silly, waste of time clutter - invariably gets moved to Off-Topic so is visible anyway.

    In other words, for 90% of the members they would see this constant stream of junk and not react to any of the fighting stuff. BTW, fighting talk and rudeness is usually dealt with via PM and the OP (who has usually cooled by then) either changes their post or thanks us with a request to delete it. Moderation allows us to deal with these things diplomatically.

    On very rare occasions someone posts something incredibly inflammatory., shouts "FIRE!" In a crowded theatre, and even established members have been known to fly off the handle in their reactions. I'll admit to seeing posts where even I've said WTH? But then gotten context and realized there was no panic after all.
     
  16. dsm363

    dsm363 Roadster + Sig Model S

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    As long as the amount of time of the group hung is in moderation:smile:

    - - - Updated - - -

    Exactly. Do we want a thought experiment and open up the forum completely for awhile with no moderation/censorship and see how people like it? I left the official Tesla forums for exactly this reason. It turned into a free for all with perpetual motion posts again and again and spam for 20 threads in a row each day in the general forum. That's definitely one way to do it and something that would turn people away from this site in a flash.
     
  17. JakeP

    JakeP S P4996 / X P6028

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    Johan for the win...thanks so much for that post, it was nice to have a laugh after reading seven pages of heated exchange between folks whose contributions and individual opinions I highly respect, which made me very uneasy!
     
  18. FlasherZ

    FlasherZ Sig Model S + Sig Model X + Model 3 Resv

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    There are no arguments about reorganizing threads, splitting, combining, spam, etc., and you all do a great job at that. Please let that soak in... it seems to be the reason for defensiveness, even in this thread.

    It is when something related to the board's primary focus (Tesla) gets hidden, especially when it is a life safety potential, that is at issue. Even if it seems to be way off base, daylight will resolve it.

    I was legitimately concerned, and if you can't understand why then perhaps you should reach out to me.
     
  19. bonnie

    bonnie Oil is for sissies.

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    I think the perceived defensiveness is that after repeatedly saying 'there was no content', the response continues to be 'let me decide that for myself' which implies distrust. Moderation includes removing nonsense posts. In this case, because the OP is a respected poster, we put the post into moderation and tried contacting the OP (like we always do). Please let that soak in ... you seem to think some information was censored and people are saying it was not (including forum members who saw the post and requested it go into moderation).

    For the record, since this has been said a few times - I have not felt attacked nor have I felt the need to defend. I've been trying to explain that this situation is not what you've made it out to be, not one where information was withheld that you'd like to know. I've repeatedly said there was no information. So have other mods, so have forum members who saw the post.

    Posts are very rarely deleted without the OP's permission. And not when it is an established member.

    I'm officially disengaging since it seems to be that we are talking past each other. You're sure that many of the mods are just being defensive, I honestly can't figure out what you think we hid.
     
  20. Doug_G

    Doug_G Lead Moderator

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    #80 Doug_G, Jan 9, 2013
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 9, 2013
    The moderators have put quite a bit of thought into their policies and how they execute them. Feedback is welcome but this is getting to be a broken record.
     

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