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Short-Term TSLA Price Movements - 2015

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A WAG, just like about 99% of what we all post here.. My WAG is just more conservative than yours.:wink:. If we hit $500+ next year I will buy you dinner..See you are located in NY/NY. I will make the drive up.

Share price has gone absolutely nowhere in the last 22 months, oscillating between 180 during bearish sentiment and 280 during bullish sentiment. So for TSLA to reach 300 or high 200s at some point in 2016 would not signal a "great" year, but rather simply maintaining the status quo of going nowhere.

That may turn out to be the case, but I don't see it. There are too many catalysts coming up that will cause TSLA to break one way or the other, up or down.(I'm betting up)

First you want to examine why share price has remained stagnant for almost 2 years now, significantly lagging other high beta names and the Nasdaq as a whole. There are 2 reasons.

1. Model X delay. It is no coincidence that the 2 year delay in Model X launch just so happens to put a lid on stock price for the same time period. A delay in Model X means an accumulation of costs relating to developing and launching the X, which means cash burn, which means a delay in profitability and a balance sheet that doesn't look too hot. Much of this is the crux of the short thesis. And while we all knew that the X was coming eventually, share price cannot appreciate while the risks seemed to pile up in the here and now.

2. TSLA was overvalued. Elon said it himself. While there may have been plenty of true buyers at $30, $40, even $50 or $60, the path from $70 to $200+ was pure short covering. In fact, it was a short carousel of covering, which drives the price up, then new shorts piling on because it was overvalued, then forced to cover at even higher prices because the old shorts couldn't take it anymore. It was shorts covering into shorts. While for longs that circus ride might have been enjoyable, the forced buying did make TSLA overvalued. Just like forced selling from a hedge fund blowing up would create undervalue in an equity, the forced buying from the shorts blowing up created overvalue.

Now two things can happen once something gets overvalued. It can crash back down to earth, or it can pause, consolidate, and wait for the fundamentals to catch up. While the shorts currently in TSLA all seem to be focused on the former, the latter is exactly what is happening today. Not only has the last 2 years allowed fundamentals to catch up, brilliantly, Elon has used the short squeeze and overvaluation to raise tons of capital at minimal dilution, and turned that capital into assets that will create future value. It is the height of irony that the over-valuation of TSLA that is the reason why so many shorts got into TSLA was caused by shorts to begin with, and those same shorts covering and driving the price so high is what will fund Tesla's future expansion in order to grow into its valuation. That is damn near a greek tragedy if I wasn't actually long.

So we have established why TSLA has gone nowhere. Now, looking at the development of those same two factors, it is why I believe we will go SOMEwhere in 2016. The model X that has been so delayed is finally coming online, and development costs for it should go down dramatically now that it is finished. That means a reduction of cash burn, the balance sheet turning around, and near term risks abating. The overvaluation has had time to consolidate and work itself out. Remember, when TSLA was first rocketing up in share price there was no Supercharger network, no Gigafactory, no Tesla energy, no Autopilot. Heck, there wasn't even dual wheel drive. Those concepts did not even exist yet. Longs may be frustrated thinking why hasn't TSLA gone anywhere in the meantime while all those things have added value. In reality, those are the things that kept the share price up and allowed TSLA to grow into its valuation without a more significant pullback after the initial overvaluation. Again, while I agree with some shorts that INITIALLY from 100 to 200+ TSLA was overvalued caused by forced buying, after the past 22 months of consolidation, it no longer is. In fact, to call TSLA overvalued today is a gross misunderstanding by the bears of how the stock market operates. Overvalued and undervalued assets do not last for 2 years at the same price point. The markets are too smart for that. The market is only irrational and can misprice things in the short run, either from exuberance/depression of sentiment, or from forced liquidation. But that lasts days to weeks. Not years. So for bears to call TSLA overvalued today is a juvenile outlook of the market mechanism. After 22 months of 200+ share price, it is not overvaluation, it is price discovery.

With that said, with TSLA catching up to its own valuation, and with the Model X coming online, I expect 2016 to be the next leg up for TSLA. So after all that my point is this, if the next leg up truly is coming, do you really think we will stop at $300?
 
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+1000 Jesselivenomore!
That is exactly why I have increased my long term holdings by 50% in the last month. The price has stayed about the same for over a year, but Tesla has continued to grow/expand without any real competition from others. Buying the stock around 220 a year ago was more of a risk because we didn't know how many of the plans they had would come to fruition. Now we have a clearer picture, all looks good to me, which means TSLA is growing into its valuation just like you said.
 
Tesla has lost several key execs to Sonnenbatterie in recent weeks. I doubt they would have left if nothing interesting was coming up at their new employer.

From your linked article:

Like Schröder, who is now Sonnenbatterie’s managing director, a number of the Tesla defectors are former Sonnenbatterie staff. Jonas Rabe, for example, has rejoined Sonnenbatterie as marketing manager after being Tesla’s sole marketer in Germany. Previously, Rabe had led sales and public relations at Sonnenbatterie before moving to Tesla in March 2014.

So people went from Sonnenbatterie to Tesla and then back to Sonnenbatterie.
 
Share price has gone absolutely nowhere in the last 22 months, oscillating between 180 during bearish sentiment and 280 during bullish sentiment. So for TSLA to reach 300 or high 200s at some point in 2016 would not signal a "great" year, but rather simply maintaining the status quo of going nowhere.

That may turn out to be the case, but I don't see it. There are too many catalysts coming up that will cause TSLA to break one way or the other, up or down.(I'm betting up)

First you want to examine why share price has remained stagnant for almost 2 years now, significantly lagging other high beta names and the Nasdaq as a whole. There are 2 reasons.

1. Model X delay. It is no coincidence that the 2 year delay in Model X launch just so happens to put a lid on stock price for the same time period. A delay in Model X means an accumulation of costs relating to developing and launching the X, which means cash burn, which means a delay in profitability and a balance sheet that doesn't look too hot. Much of this is the crux of the short thesis. And while we all knew that the X was coming eventually, share price cannot appreciate while the risks seemed to pile up in the here and now.

2. TSLA was overvalued. Elon said it himself. While there may have been plenty of true buyers at $30, $40, even $50 or $60, the path from $70 to $200+ was pure short covering. In fact, it was a short carousel of covering, which drives the price up, then new shorts piling on because it was overvalued, then forced to cover at even higher prices because the old shorts couldn't take it anymore. It was shorts covering into shorts. While for longs that circus ride might have been enjoyable, the forced buying did make TSLA overvalued. Just like forced selling from a hedge fund blowing up would create undervalue in an equity, the forced buying from the shorts blowing up created overvalue.

Now two things can happen once something gets overvalued. It can crash back down to earth, or it can pause, consolidate, and wait for the fundamentals to catch up. While the shorts currently in TSLA all seem to be focused on the former, the latter is exactly what is happening today. Not only has the last 2 years allowed fundamentals to catch up, brilliantly, Elon has used the short squeeze and overvaluation to raise tons of capital at minimal dilution, and turned that capital into assets that will create future value. It is the height of irony that the over-valuation of TSLA that is the reason why so many shorts got into TSLA was caused by shorts to begin with, and those same shorts covering and driving the price so high is what will fund Tesla's future expansion in order to grow into its valuation. That is damn near a greek tragedy if I wasn't actually long.

So we have established why TSLA has gone nowhere. Now, looking at the development of those same two factors, it is why I believe we will go SOMEwhere in 2016. The model X that has been so delayed is finally coming online, and development costs for it should go down dramatically now that it is finished. That means a reduction of cash burn, the balance sheet turning around, and near term risks abating. The overvaluation has had time to consolidate and work itself out. Remember, when TSLA was first rocketing up in share price there was no Supercharger network, no Gigafactory, no Tesla energy, no Autopilot. Heck, there wasn't even dual wheel drive. Those concepts did not even exist yet. Longs may be frustrated thinking why hasn't TSLA gone anywhere in the meantime while all those things have added value. In reality, those are the things that kept the share price up and allowed TSLA to grow into its valuation without a more significant pullback after the initial overvaluation. Again, while I agree with some shorts that INITIALLY from 100 to 200+ TSLA was overvalued caused by forced buying, after the past 22 months of consolidation, it no longer is. In fact, to call TSLA overvalued today is a gross misunderstanding by the bears of how the stock market operates. Overvalued and undervalued assets do not last for 2 years at the same price point. The markets are too smart for that. The market is only irrational and can misprice things in the short run, either from exuberance/depression of sentiment, or from forced liquidation. But that lasts days to weeks. Not years. So for bears to call TSLA overvalued today is a juvenile outlook of the market mechanism. After 22 months of 200+ share price, it is not overvaluation, it is price discovery.

With that said, with TSLA catching up to its own valuation, and with the Model X coming online, I expect 2016 to be the next leg up for TSLA. So after all that my point is this, if the next leg up truly is coming, do you really think we will stop at $300?

Thanks for the information. Simple answer: I expect it to top out in 2016 at closer to $300 than $500+. and I will buy dinner in NYC if it tops $500 in 2016.

edit: And I agree with the information you provided. I just think the 'leg up' will be 'about' a 50% SP increase, not 100+%. I hope you are right and I am wrong. I will retire if we hit $500+ in 2016 and be very happy to buy you dinner.

I don't see $500 options available but if you are correct you will make a fortune buying J17 490s for about $1.50 a piece.
 
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Credit Suisse reiterated an Outperform rating and $325 price target.

StreetInsider.com digest of the Credit Suisse note:

Credit Suisse analyst Dan Galves reiterated an Outperform rating and $325 price target on Tesla Motors (NASDAQ: TSLA), saying fourth quarter guidance looks achievable and they still see a reasonable path to $4 EPS in 2016.

Galves said the debate on the stock centers around short term issues, namely Model X production ramp and Q4 volume. They expect both of theses issues to be addressed in a positive way by early January when the company discloses Q4 volumes, which will allowing the Street to re-focus on the long-term story.
Galves sees 17k units in Q4 as achievable. "Our estimates are based on 15k orders in Q3, 1k incremental sales in Denmark (due to year-end tax changes), and 1k incremental sales in UK," Galves said.

The analyst also said an Model X ramp is imminent. ": Early X consumers (in the VIN 400-800 range) are beginning to be contacted about December delivery and Monday's release of full Model X specs / pricing indicates that production ramp is in sight," he said.

Overall, Galves sees 2016 as a much cleaner year, which enables operating leverage. "The biggest future catalyst we see is Tesla generating significantly higher earnings and reducing the cash burn," he said. "From $2.30 annualized loss in 3Q15, we estimate 36k incremental Model X units will drive $7 of incremental EPS. This, plus better Model S margin, offset by lower-than-consensus SG&A / R&D growth means that $4 EPS (vs consensus $1.86) and a reduction in fullyear FCF burn to ~$500MM is achievable…although we think even hitting consensus numbers in 2016 would be a substantial catalyst."
 
Competition for Tesla Energy :biggrin:?:
Sonnenbatterie Launches Solar-Plus-Storage Storage System for $10,645 | Greentech Media
Sonnenbatterie, the battery company that recently poached Tesla’s top German team, is announcing an all-in-one residential PV and storage system for €9,999 ($10,645).

The price, being unveiled in a Berlin press conference today, includes a 2 kilowatt-hour eco 2 Sonnenbatterie battery, a German-made PV panel, an inverter, an intelligent control system and 19 percent sales tax (called value added tax or VAT in Europe).

<snip>
Another Tesla killer lol :) ?!
 
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Am I missing something here?

Tesla appears to be $1,000 Euro more after VAT, install, and other details but 7kw Tesla vs 2kw Sonnenbatterie? How is that competition? Did I read too fast?

- - - Updated - - -

WOW!

For the first time in weeks my Jan 16 calls went green!

Yippee!

- - - Updated - - -

Tesla Motors Inc. (TSLA) should be able to meet its fourth-quarter volume guidance and reach $4 in earnings per share in 2016, despite short-term problems from its low Model X production, according to Credit Suisse analysts. The analysts say Tesla should be able to reach 17,000 units in the fourth quarter, as the early Model X customers are being contacted about receiving cars in December. In 2016, the analysts say Tesla should bring in much higher earnings, with Model X cars adding $7 in incremental earnings per share. The analysts kept their outperform rating and $325 price target. Shares of Tesla have gained 4% in the past month compared to the S&P 500's gain of 1%
 
Am I missing something here?

Tesla appears to be $1,000 Euro more after VAT, install, and other details but 7kw Tesla vs 2kw Sonnenbatterie? How is that competition? Did I read too fast?

The article also has it wrong, the €3,612 PowerWall price including VAT should be the end consumer price, not the wholesale price. In the end, the entire value proposition of the Sonnenbatterie solution is going to be based on whether or not it can actually achieve 10,000 cycles, which must be based on restricting the usable kWh. Sony's own datasheets point to 2,000 cycles at 80% degradation, so the truth is still murky. We actually don't have enough information on useable kWh as well as real lifecycle to understand the value between the systems. Their inverter, however, doesn't seem to compare well to SolarEdge's existing string inverters, much less the new HD-Wave line.

Note that the demand for solar energy storage batteries is tremendous and both companies can sell out their entire production capability. The market is so vast as we hit these price points that it is hard to see a zero sum game yet.
 
Am I missing something here?

Tesla appears to be $1,000 Euro more after VAT, install, and other details but 7kw Tesla vs 2kw Sonnenbatterie? How is that competition? Did I read too fast?

No. For just the 2kWh battery and control software, Sonnebatterie is the same price as Tesla (3615EUR), but the latter has 7kWh. To me the big differentiator is here

article said:
Sonnenbatterie’s control system tracks solar output, home electricity usage patterns, energy prices and weather forecasts in order to charge and discharge the battery in a way that optimizes the financial return for the homeowner.

To maximize the financial benefit an end user has depends on the intelligence of the system to store energy in and release from the batteries at the appropriate times. Powerwall seems to be just the battery with little added functionality to actually integrate with a home PV system (it also doesn't include an inverter or DC coupling). It remains to be seen if it has above described control software and if so, how it's quality stacks up against Sonnenbatterie.

Another thing the article mentions is a tie in with a specific German incentive where users of the system can share their stored energy and profit from even lower electricity costs. But that's only for the full system which makes it harder to compare in features.

The article also has it wrong, the €3,612 PowerWall price including VAT should be the end consumer price, not the wholesale price.

Incorrect, the European websites of Tesla specifically says EUR 3615 is wholesale price, not retail. For example the German page says

Tesla website said:
Groβhandelspreis inklusive Mehrwertsteue
 
The article also has it wrong, the €3,612 PowerWall price including VAT should be the end consumer price, not the wholesale price. In the end, the entire value proposition of the Sonnenbatterie solution is going to be based on whether or not it can actually achieve 10,000 cycles, which must be based on restricting the usable kWh. Sony's own datasheets point to 2,000 cycles at 80% degradation, so the truth is still murky. We actually don't have enough information on useable kWh as well as real lifecycle to understand the value between the systems. Their inverter, however, doesn't seem to compare well to SolarEdge's existing string inverters, much less the new HD-Wave line.

Note that the demand for solar energy storage batteries is tremendous and both companies can sell out their entire production capability. The market is so vast as we hit these price points that it is hard to see a zero sum game yet.

For reference, that puts it at: $3826.55.

So from the article:
Customers wishing to buy just the battery and control software to attach to an existing PV system will be able to do so for a starting price of €3,599 ($3,830), including VAT

So we have roughly the same price point, but missing 5kWh of batteries. Look at me... I'm shaking in my boots over this "devastating blow" to Tesla. :rolleyes:

But as you point out, they will very likely sell out on their product just as much as Tesla since there is such a large demand and not near enough supply to satisfy the market. So for now everyone is likely to make money! We will see how things pan out longer term though. If competition can't bring down their prices then eventually Tesla will start to encroach on their market share.
 
The article also has it wrong, the €3,612 PowerWall price including VAT should be the end consumer price, not the wholesale price. In the end, the entire value proposition of the Sonnenbatterie solution is going to be based on whether or not it can actually achieve 10,000 cycles, which must be based on restricting the usable kWh. Sony's own datasheets point to 2,000 cycles at 80% degradation, so the truth is still murky. We actually don't have enough information on useable kWh as well as real lifecycle to understand the value between the systems. Their inverter, however, doesn't seem to compare well to SolarEdge's existing string inverters, much less the new HD-Wave line.

Note that the demand for solar energy storage batteries is tremendous and both companies can sell out their entire production capability. The market is so vast as we hit these price points that it is hard to see a zero sum game yet.

The concept of 10,000 life cycles is really overrated. For a home battery supplied by solar, this is just 1 cycle per day. So it takes over 27 years to use up the battery. That should be compared to buying a Powerwall today an replacing it in 10 to 15 years. The replacement battery will be just a fraction of the cost of the first one and alot smaller, ligher and higher performance. Moreover, if discount price 10 to 15 years, the present value of that replacement is quite trivial. So on a present value basis one 10k cycle battery is like to be much more expensive than a 4k cycle Powerwall with replacement(s) over the next 30 years. Ten years from now a homeowner is going to feel kinda stupid with monstrously large 2 kWh battery that will keep taking up space for the next 17 years. Simply put a 10k cycle home battery will become obsolete long before it dies. It's like buying a PC on the 1980s with the intent of continuing to use it past 2010.


Of course there are some utility applications where a battery might get cycled 5 or more times per day, and in such situations a 10k life cycle could provide excellent financial return within 6 years. Until battery technologies are very mature, I don't see the value of using a battery beyond 10 years of use. Even in cars, most folks will want to upgrade their batteries for better performance in 10 years if the rest of the car is sound.
 
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