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Should EVs Make Artificial Sounds at Low Speeds?
- Thread starter Brent
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- Electric Vehicles
I wonder if the ripple from the DC-DC converter would be enough for it to pick up on and in a suitable range. It doesn't vary with speed, though so you'd only get one engine note.
brucet999
Active Member
As much as I think it's really not necessary, I will say that I've both driven a LEAF and listened as one has driven by, and I don't find the sound offensive in general. On rare occasions, I've driven somewhere remote and really quiet, and there the lack of any propulsion sound is really quite enjoyable. Just gliding along with the windows open really is nice, so this noisemaker would interfere with that enjoyment.
However, in most of my day-to-day driving, it would make either no difference at all, or perhaps be occasionally helpful with pedestrians. So, am I really worked up over it? Not really.
What I would really like to see Tesla do, though, is to add the Volt-style pedestrian alert that was mentioned above (and that was invented for the EV-1, by the way). There are definitely occasions where a gentle alert would be most welcome.
What I most object to about this rule is its wrongheaded limitation to EVs and hybrids. It reminds me very much of a dispute that Larry Ellison had with San Jose Airport some years ago. The airport had a noise ordinance which said that airplanes over a certain weight were not allowed to land late at night. This ordinance was written under the assumption that heavy airplanes are naturally louder. Ellison's (completely valid) complaint was that his business jet, being a modern design, was actually quieter than lighter but older aircraft that were allowed to land after the curfew.
This EV requirement is the same sort of thing. It assumes that all EVs and hybrids are quiet, and all ICEs are not, but that's factually false. If there's really a safety issue from quiet cars, then fine, let's solve that issue. But let's do it in a way that actually works.
However, in most of my day-to-day driving, it would make either no difference at all, or perhaps be occasionally helpful with pedestrians. So, am I really worked up over it? Not really.
What I would really like to see Tesla do, though, is to add the Volt-style pedestrian alert that was mentioned above (and that was invented for the EV-1, by the way). There are definitely occasions where a gentle alert would be most welcome.
What I most object to about this rule is its wrongheaded limitation to EVs and hybrids. It reminds me very much of a dispute that Larry Ellison had with San Jose Airport some years ago. The airport had a noise ordinance which said that airplanes over a certain weight were not allowed to land late at night. This ordinance was written under the assumption that heavy airplanes are naturally louder. Ellison's (completely valid) complaint was that his business jet, being a modern design, was actually quieter than lighter but older aircraft that were allowed to land after the curfew.
This EV requirement is the same sort of thing. It assumes that all EVs and hybrids are quiet, and all ICEs are not, but that's factually false. If there's really a safety issue from quiet cars, then fine, let's solve that issue. But let's do it in a way that actually works.
brucet999
Active Member
Your outrage notwithstanding, disabling the noisemaker would place you in legal and liability jeopardy in the event that you were to run over someone who stepped off the curb as you made a right turn or walked into your path in a parking lot/garage. Chances are that your insurance company could refuse to cover you if they were to discover that you disabled the noisemaker.
With that in mind, the value of all Model S vehicles manufactured prior to the noisemaker hardware addition might have just gone up.
BMW is already ahead of the game on that one.
Btw, Elon has commented on this before but I can't recall where. He said something like, to the best of my recollection: if mandated, they would approach it by making a sound that only comes on when necessary, is projected toward where it needs to be, and isn't annoying.
- Disconnect speaker.
- Remove speaker from vehicle.
- Connect test leads to speaker.
- Apply 12V DC to speaker. Chant "Out, out, magic smoke" repeatedly up to 10 times. If successful, go to step 7
- If unable to coax magic smoke out of its lair with 10 repetitions, disconnect 12V from speaker.
- Increase voltage and repeat chant until successful.
- Re-install smoke-free speaker.
- Reconnect speaker.
Removing the speaker from the vehicle is recommended, as sometimes release of magic smoke is accompanied by flames, especially at higher voltage levels.
"Oh, my noisemaker wasn't working? Oh well, what a shame, officer. If only they weren't wearing headphones and looked before crossing the street.":wink:
We aren't.
The rule is now final, I believe. This means that 30% of a manufacturer's autos must be produced with it by Sept. 1, 2016 - note it's *not* 2015. 60% adoption by 9/17, 90% by 9/18, and full adoption by 9/19. The wording in the rule is a bit confusing, because the full compliance date is September of the calendar year that begins after 3 years after the rule becomes final. So final rule 4/2015, three years is 4/2018, next calendar year begins 1/2019, and full compliance required by 9/2019. Backtrack, 90% required 9/2018, 60% 9/2017, and 30% 9/2016.
From the rule itself:
- - - Updated - - -
It's no longer a proposed rule, it appears to be final this month, although I can't find any record of the specific FMVSS publication. It will be FMVSS 141, apparently, but it isn't listed (yet) at http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/rules/import/FMVSS/
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William13
Active Member
I just lost two hours of my life reading over this rule. Someone at Tesla will need to spend weeks reading and months designing and testing the new noise maker. It will cost Tesla. It will cost a lot more than the government estimated. but that is the government for you.
30% of Tesla vehicles built between September 2015 and September 2016 will need to be equipped. Of course only ones for the USA are affected.
The prohibition to modify the noise maker does not have any teeth and does not apply to end users as far as I can tell. I can tell you how to modify/disable but can't modify the car for you. Tesla can't do either but could post repair instructions and specifications for the noise maker that end users could access.
There is no section specifying broadcast dispersion characteristics that Elon was referring to in his remarks about minimizing the noise.
30% of Tesla vehicles built between September 2015 and September 2016 will need to be equipped. Of course only ones for the USA are affected.
The prohibition to modify the noise maker does not have any teeth and does not apply to end users as far as I can tell. I can tell you how to modify/disable but can't modify the car for you. Tesla can't do either but could post repair instructions and specifications for the noise maker that end users could access.
There is no section specifying broadcast dispersion characteristics that Elon was referring to in his remarks about minimizing the noise.
breser
AutoPilot Nostradamus
I don't think it's been published in the Federal Record yet. That needs to happen. But the final rule notation means that it's going to happen. I'd presume that the publication will include the definitive answer as to the phase in timeframes.
But I don't believe there's much that can happen at this point to change the regulation. They've done most of the process required for the regulation to take effect, only thing left is the publication.
But I don't believe there's much that can happen at this point to change the regulation. They've done most of the process required for the regulation to take effect, only thing left is the publication.
As I noted above, this is incorrect. 30% of cars made after September 1, 2016; 60% after 9/1/17; 90% after 9/1/18; and 100% after 9/1/19 must have them. See post #121.
Ok how about this. The new cars have ultrasonic sensors that are supposed to be good for up to eight feet, if detects anyone moving it then makes sound?
Optional to have it say please get away from my car!!!
Of course one of the Sci-Fi books I read had the saying if you did something dumb. "Think of it as evolution in action!!!".
Optional to have it say please get away from my car!!!
Of course one of the Sci-Fi books I read had the saying if you did something dumb. "Think of it as evolution in action!!!".
Mercury
Member
Gads, this is horrible. Maybe they'll get to publishing the official phase-in schedule right after Ow, My Balls is done.
doctorwho
Active Member
Perhaps the robot from Lost in Space screeching "Danger Will Robinson" at 130dBThere is a similar rule going through the EU at the moment (link) and it also gives special treatment to EVs and hybrids.
IMO it must also become illegal for pedestrians to use the phone or wear headphones whilst near a road. People who are hard of hearing are also at risk. To mitigate these immense risks, EVs and hybrids should be fitted with police sirens, emitting a minimum of 120 decibels at speeds < 30mph...
