JRP3
Hyperactive Member
It need not power the car endlessly, just replace a portion of daily miles. I average less than 20 miles a day which means a significant portion of my driving could come from on board solar even with today's panels.
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I calculated for Germany. Assuming you drive 60km/day. Charging your car every weekend 2 full sun periods a 5kw peak PV could supply you for 6 months in the middle of the year 100%, but 50% the other darker months. 75% in total assuming you charge it every weekend ofr the whole sunlight period.
A 5 kw PV brings 5000-5800 kwh/year(west germany). Driving 10,000km/year means 2,1MWh for a Tesla, 1,5MWh for Model E perhaps. :love:
Apropos batteries. Here the latest scientific progress in nano silicon anodes for Li ion cells. :love:
A 5 kw PV brings 5000-5800 kwh/year(west germany). Driving 10,000km/year means 2,1MWh for a Tesla, 1,5MWh for Model E perhaps. :love:
Apropos batteries. Here the latest scientific progress in nano silicon anodes for Li ion cells. :love:
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HEy you BEV freaks.
Just wanted to share my new thoughts on solar PV for BEV in future.
Since on a BEV you have only 4m² of surface the best PV panels to put onto it woud be multi-jnuction solar cells in combination ultrathin meta-material lenses for concentrated PV
Only flaw i s PV cell use Indium, but you would only need 4m² and those layers are 500nm thick. So no worry about that even if one day 100million cars get produced anually.
So that way you could really expect to have real 2kw peak power in summer. Future BEV will weigh only half of Models S.
Lucky if you have a non shaded parking lot. :love:
Just wanted to share my new thoughts on solar PV for BEV in future.
Since on a BEV you have only 4m² of surface the best PV panels to put onto it woud be multi-jnuction solar cells in combination ultrathin meta-material lenses for concentrated PV
Only flaw i s PV cell use Indium, but you would only need 4m² and those layers are 500nm thick. So no worry about that even if one day 100million cars get produced anually.
So that way you could really expect to have real 2kw peak power in summer. Future BEV will weigh only half of Models S.
Lucky if you have a non shaded parking lot. :love:
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The question I have is: why?
Why would you mount one on your car when you can mount one on your roof at home?
The fixed one can probably generate more power for less cost and therefore saves more CO2 emissions per dollar than the mobile one.
If you have a car-mounted one you can add an extra 1% to your range and you don't need to plug your car in when you go on a 4 month long vacation, but these seem like rather minor benefits compared to the improved kWh per dollar ratio of a fixed solution.
Why would you mount one on your car when you can mount one on your roof at home?
The fixed one can probably generate more power for less cost and therefore saves more CO2 emissions per dollar than the mobile one.
If you have a car-mounted one you can add an extra 1% to your range and you don't need to plug your car in when you go on a 4 month long vacation, but these seem like rather minor benefits compared to the improved kWh per dollar ratio of a fixed solution.
If i could provide 2KW of PV on my car (50%efficiency,4m²) and i let it stand for 10h in the full bright sun and my car weighs only a ton i could drive 200kms(10kwh/100km)! I could travel whereever i want to without depending on a plug for the life of the battery/PV.
I could make an awesome roadtrip around the world.
Dont think in dollars, think about the value of such a car.
Imagine a self driving self sustained speaking BEV connected to the web giving you electricity also for VR or making coffee.
It searches on its own the best place to charge sun much like a horse that goes eating grass drinking water at a stop.
Its basically alive, a ****in robot.
I could make an awesome roadtrip around the world.
Dont think in dollars, think about the value of such a car.
Imagine a self driving self sustained speaking BEV connected to the web giving you electricity also for VR or making coffee.
It searches on its own the best place to charge sun much like a horse that goes eating grass drinking water at a stop.
Its basically alive, a ****in robot.
So you would only drive at night then if you had to let your car sit in the sun in ideal circumstances for 10 hours a day? The Model S weighs 4,600lbs too. Where would the 4m^2 square panel go with a pano roof? How good would it look? I think you are going off into areas that are beyond simply a solar panel on a Model S.
This is not the optimum use of solar panels compared to putting them on your roof, I agree. But, like Kitt says, have some imagination. John Peterson keeps telling us that electric cars are not the optimum use of batteries. Stop-start systems and electric-assist bicycles are. He is right, but we do not live solely to use batteries in an optimum manner. Same for lots of other things, including solar cells.
Think what having another charging option would do for you. Not everyone would want it, but it could be a great thing for others. This is somewhat analogous to the dual charger option. Dual chargers are not needed for overnight charging, and supercharging can take care of most trips. But, for some owners, dual chargers can be very nice to have every now and then.
Also, 1.4 kW 120V charging is not so hot, but can be helpful in some situations. It is good to have the option. If you could automatically have 1.4 kW charging whenever the car is in the sun, it could be very handy.
GSP
Think what having another charging option would do for you. Not everyone would want it, but it could be a great thing for others. This is somewhat analogous to the dual charger option. Dual chargers are not needed for overnight charging, and supercharging can take care of most trips. But, for some owners, dual chargers can be very nice to have every now and then.
Also, 1.4 kW 120V charging is not so hot, but can be helpful in some situations. It is good to have the option. If you could automatically have 1.4 kW charging whenever the car is in the sun, it could be very handy.
GSP
Well the topic of this thread is 'Should Model S have a solar panel'. Should we moved your comments to its own off topic thread about future technologies and 50% efficient solar panels?
While it would be nice you'd have to have it cheap enough, efficient enough and make it look good for people to accept. You're probably better off taking that money and putting it on your house as said or building out the Supercharging network or hotel charging network instead.
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
JRP3
Hyperactive Member
Elon has not yet put a solar panel on a Tesla, maybe you should chastise him as well for lack of vision
A 4 wheeled bicycle with a plastic body is not really a "car".
A 4 wheeled bicycle with a plastic body is not really a "car".
You're not taking account of the fact that the solar panels need to be aimed at the sun to achieve full output. A car is unlikely to provide such a platform. At best the panels will on average be facing straight up. There goes 30% of your power even at high noon.
The problem here isn't lack of imagination; it's not facing up to reality. Solar panels on a car is a marginal application at best. You would be better of filling the trunk with panels and a fold-out truss to hold them. You park the car, deploy the array, and charge all day. That might actually produce some usable amount of power.
The problem here isn't lack of imagination; it's not facing up to reality. Solar panels on a car is a marginal application at best. You would be better of filling the trunk with panels and a fold-out truss to hold them. You park the car, deploy the array, and charge all day. That might actually produce some usable amount of power.
The tiny one on the Leaf spoiler is a gimmick for sure. On the other hand a flexible PV-cell covered hood+roof on the S would be able to provide enough power to combat the "vampire drain" when the car is parked on the sun. Sure not much, but I do not see the cost would be so high compared to the price of the vehicle.
NigelM
Recovering Member
Note the title of the thread. Given that, most participants will naturally be discussing the topic in the context of Model S.
Now, if you want to open a wider discussion about "if I wanted to create a solar powered car using some inspiration and perhaps parts from Model S" that might be an interesting thread. But getting upset or annoyed because people stay on-topic seems silly.
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Doug, I think you may be on to something...
A "portable, sun-powered tanning bed transport" might be an interesting kickstarter project to appeal to the crisp skin crowd. You just need a cart, panels, mirrors, a motor, and a willing tester. Right?
For those that have to go even farther distances, they could tan during a hyperloop journey.
I can fantasize about a lot.
I am an engineer, however, and I therefore consider dollars when evaluating a lot of fantastic possibilities.
With today's PV technology, a reasonably priced solar panel on the roof of a Model S will not affect driving habits. For $5k, you could generate a handful of miles (6?) in the summer. For $5k, you could generate nearly 10 kWh in the summer on a fixed roof angled toward the sun.
I do lack the imagination to understand why the former would be better.
I don't think that Elon would be disappointed in this attitude, either. It seems to me that Elon has done a very good job in pointing out how current technologies can be put together to create something incredibly useful. I don't think that Elon has really created dramatic improvements in any particular core technology. He hasn't invented a new battery chemistry, rocket fuel, or photovoltaic material. His magic is in a sensible combination of core technologies (e.g., how to wire up a bunch of Panasonic batteries into a kickass vehicle) rather than any breakthroughs in physics or chemistry.
In fact, I think he's been harshly critical of those that are expecting a miracle to happen in new technology. You might be able to imagine nuclear fusion providing cheap energy to electrolyze water into fuel cell fuel, but the technology isn't here today and Elon is calling them fool cells. You might be able to imagine a supercapacitor that has a large energy density, but the technology isn't here and Elon is investing heavily in a Li-ion gigafactory. The technology to generate a meaningful amount of power on your car's roof at a reasonable cost isn't here today, and Elon isn't going to waste his company's money by investing in something that simply doesn't make sense without some technology breakthrough.
Imagination is important, but a dose of realism is important as well.
my $0.02,
Derek
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