Should Model S have a solar panel?

[dsm363]

Are you searcher by any chance from Tesla forums?

I admire your enthusiasm but you have to understand where others are coming from too. We too can dream up wonderful uses of future technologies but this is the wrong thread for that. This is about putting solar panels that exist today in a Model S today.

 

[derekt75]

you might have missed that i talked about future BEVs and PV technologies. Assuming what if......then...... what could be......
Reading carefully is equally important. :wink:
It wasnt my intention to piss people off. Sorry about that.

Oh I'm not pissed off. Sorry if you got that impression. I should use more smileys. :smile:

It's just that while "what if" sorts of things can be interesting, they're not as useful to me. If you can assume anything, you can get any result. If you assume that you can find solar panels that can convert 50% of the incident solar radiation to electricity and that you can cover your entire car with them for not too much money, then yeah, it's probably a good idea. I've got no problems with dreams as long as they're identified as dreams.

Given the current state and expected near-term future of PV technology, solar panels don't make sense on a Model S. I think that's the point of many of us in this thread.

If you want to start off by assuming that your dreams are true (50% efficient inexpensive panels), well then yeah, you can get any result you want. Dreams can be useful. But for every 1 dream that pans out, 100 fizzle out.

 

[EVFest]

This is about putting solar panels that exist today in a Model S today.

Sure - and at some point in the future when the 50% Efficient Solar Panels are available, flexible, and handy - you can get something of value from this small area. Gizmag suggests that time might not be so far in the future - "Four-junction, four-terminal stacked solar cell hits 43.9 percent efficiency" But - if you have a situation that only needs a mile or two a day - current panels could offer some value, and Panasonic Cells just announced their HIT Panels at something like 25.6% Efficient, a long way from the usual 12-14% Levels from a few decades back!

 

[JRP3]

With today's PV technology, a reasonably priced solar panel on the roof of a Model S will not affect driving habits. For $5k, you could generate a handful of miles (6?) in the summer. For $5k, you could generate nearly 10 kWh in the summer on a fixed roof angled toward the sun.

I do lack the imagination to understand why the former would be better.

With apologies for being repetitive, allow me to stimulate your imagination. The panels on the car eliminate any vampire drain and enable a car to be parked indefinitely, say at an airport, while gaining range instead of losing it. The panels at home are worthless in that case. They are also worthless on my home, in the woods. And a solar panel option would be the only option you can choose, other than aero rims, that will actually provide you with any additional range. For example the pano roof option reduces range when open, and by increasing cooling or heating loads in extreme temperatures.
So no, solar panels on the car are not the most optimal use of solar panels on a cost per kWh basis, but I'd argue that they could be the most optimal use of your money when choosing options for the car.

 

[EarlyAdopter]

With apologies for being repetitive, allow me to stimulate your imagination. The panels on the car eliminate any vampire drain and enable a car to be parked indefinitely, say at an airport, while gaining range instead of losing it. The panels at home are worthless in that case. They are also worthless on my home, in the woods. And a solar panel option would be the only option you can choose, other than aero rims, that will actually provide you with any additional range. For example the pano roof option reduces range when open, and by increasing cooling or heating loads in extreme temperatures.
So no, solar panels on the car are not the most optimal use of solar panels on a cost per kWh basis, but I'd argue that they could be the most optimal use of your money when choosing options for the car.

The pano roof also reduces range a tiny bit by weighing more than the standard aluminum roof.

Which brings up another point to consider when working out the break even point for solar panels on a Model S - energy loss from hauling XXlbs of extra weight in panels around all of the time in return for energy gain from the panels some of the time. Any gain you calculate out of the panels has to be reduced by the impact of the extra weight. Could be small, but so are the gains from car solar.

 

[dsm363]

I could see it being an option someday. Add a few miles whole parked outside at work for example. They have many other things to work on for the Model S first though.

 

[JRP3]

Weight is less of a concern in long distance steady state driving, where aero is the main factor, and thin film solar should weigh less than a pano roof, and not significantly more than the standard roof.

 

[brianman]

The title of the thread is "Should Model S have a solar panel". Assuming we want to keep it that broad...

Suppose security was not a concern. Perhaps a contraption that comes out the sunroof and unfolds a flower-like array of 40 panels might provide an interesting amount of power generation/capture.

 

[JRP3]

That sounds like a rather expensive, complex, and possibly heavy, contraption.

 

[rlang59]

That sounds like a rather expensive, complex, and possibly heavy, contraption.

I bet it would look cool when it is opening.

 

[roblab]

The pano roof also reduces range a tiny bit by weighing more than the standard aluminum roof.

For that matter, *I* weigh more than the pano roof. Many of us, if we were all that worried about the energy cost of hauling around extra weight, might get a lot more serious about a diet. :smile:

 

[evme]

I don't think it will be worth it from a cost or efficiency point of view any time this decade.

And to power fully on solar you probably would need one of these:

 

[EarlyAdopter]

For that matter, *I* weigh more than the pano roof. Many of us, if we were all that worried about the energy cost of hauling around extra weight, might get a lot more serious about a diet. :smile:

Ha!

We jest, but drivers starving themselves has become a real problem in F1 racing.
Adrian Sutil: lighter Formula 1 drivers blocking weight rule change - F1 news - AUTOSPORT.com
F1 Driver Jean-Éric Vergne Was Hospitalized After Starving Himself
F1 drivers dangerously losing weight to improve performance - Autoblog

When every pound counts and you've shaved off all you can from the car...

But back on topic, all I'm saying is when factoring "at what point would it be economical to add solar panels" you have to include the added weight.

 

[evme]

But back on topic, all I'm saying is when factoring "at what point would it be economical to add solar panels" you have to include the added weight.

When solar paint becomes commercial viable.

 

[GSP]

I think this would be a useful option when PV technology will allow about 1,000 W from the area that can fit on the Model S roof, without optimum orientation to the sun.

Best left to the aftermarket however, Tesla needs to concentrate elsewhere.

GSP

PS. Checking the first solar panel that comes up on google, it would take about six 40" X 60" panels at about $300 each. Hard to fit on a car roof.

 

[JRP3]

I agree, I don't think a solar panel will help sell any more cars so certainly not a priority.

 

[Kitt]

BEVs need to get lighter in general. I think for the future it would be possible by using more CFk that a car like a golf could weigh 500kg.
i hope that with the advent of the EC manufacturers will make cars lighter again. Concentrating more on driving properties.
Here a first good example for a BEV design. It uses only 50 parts for the chassis instead of 300 like for a normal ICE are used.
http://www.gizmag.com/ineco-ev-less-than-ton/29414/

 

[Rheazombi]

You would be better off filling the trunk with panels and a fold-out truss to hold them. You park the car, deploy the array, and charge all day. That might actually produce some usable amount of power.

I actually quite like this idea, lol.
...
Sorry to necromance a year old thread, but I've always liked the idea of solar integrated with an EV.

I know the thread is mostly very negative toward the idea of solar panels, but I would love it.
I live in an apt with no covered parking and no access to a plug, it would be a nice, easy way for me to counteract vampire drain. I would only need the panels to provide maybe 5-10 miles a day and I'd be happy as a clam.

I've also been in a situation where I had to leave my ICE car in an airport for 6 months due to traveling abroad (yes, it needed a new 12V battery afterwards). There is literally nothing I could do, now that I have a Tesla. I simply can't go on a trip like that now that I have to babysit my car. You people in your nice houses with driveways/garages and your lovely solar panels!

I understand the thread is also mostly about if it's possible TODAY, but I couldn't find any other threads on TMC discussing it in any other broad sense, so this might as well be the thread to talk about hypotheticals as well.

I see this an an option that people could choose, like autopilot, fancy rims, dual chargers, etc. For many people, those things are a waste of money, and for others they are essential. Thus, many people would see no point in paying $2000-5000 for a solar roof, but I WOULD. It would have to have a certain level of ability though, I don't think Fisker's roof would be worth it for me if 200 miles a year is true. Again, my threshold would be 5-10 miles a day.

Fantasy time:
* Best option: Translucent cells that go beneath the pano glass and run along the entire pano, and down the rear window as well. Since my side windows are also tinted, maybe those could be translucent solar cells instead of tint as well. This would be a nice amount of surface area, IMO.
* Good option: Would also settle for non-translucent cells that are an option INSTEAD of a pano roof. Not see through, look like regular panels, only cover the same area that a standard roof would. Seamless, non-raised integration.
* Comedy option: I would even appreciate a ridiculous fold out solar canopy that pops out of the frunk/trunk/roof. The aesthetics would be ridiculous though and you couldn't park next to anyone. This option would be awesome in an apocalypse scenario though! I just want to see some crazy prepper guy make this as a proof of concept. I'm sure he could sell a few.

* All options should actually top off the main battery and not just power some dinky fan/help the 12V.
* All options should cost maybe $2500-5000. The lower/higher cost should be directly related to how advanced and efficient the cells are, not just cus the expensive one was marked way up.

I'm aware any of these options would involve some serious R&D, and I know Tesla is already overwhelmed by the task of integrating an AUX jack so I wont hold my breath, but it would be pretty awesome.

 

[Johan]

* Comedy option: I would even appreciate a ridiculous fold out solar canopy that pops out of the frunk/trunk/roof. The aesthetics would be ridiculous though and you couldn't park next to anyone. This option would be awesome in an apocalypse scenario though! I just want to see some crazy prepper guy make this as a proof of concept. I'm sure he could sell a few.

Whaddayoumean comedy? You didn't get that option for your Roadster???

Lotus Mobile - Portable Solar Charging System - Electric Cars Report

Edit: Sorry, didn't see the link posted earlier in the thread.

 

[Rheazombi]

Whaddayoumean comedy? You didn't get that option for your Roadster???

View attachment 77049

Lotus Mobile - Portable Solar Charging System - Electric Cars Report

That image is inherently hilarious. What I don't get about that thing is... where does it go when it's folded up? It's not something you can take with you, therefore, I don't get why it needs to fold up at all. In any case, the Model S has much more room to hide foldable panels than the Roadster. No need for some wacky pole either!

On a more serious note: The trunk well (under the floor in the back) is a really nice size and I can imagine fitting a dozen or so panels in there. Some nice system that integrates the panels together, with a way to charge the battery directly, with the panels maybe propped up on foldable c-stands and you could power the car if you ever ran out of juice in the middle of nowhere! (Yes, this is slightly absurd, but I believe it is possible with TODAY'S technology)