Signature Angst

[gg_got_a_tesla]

I feel for you Sig guys; I really do. Tesla could have done (and still can do) better. Free service for the next 8 years (really $4,800 with ranger service) would please practically everyone as service's essential for the car anyway. No doubt that's missed revenue upfront - no guarantees as some Sigs may opt for pay-as-you-go - but, looking at it differently, the cost of the perk is really spread over 8 years/100k miles.

I wonder though if the vocal Sig folks here on TMC echo the thoughts of the rest of the 1,200 North American Sigs or if the rest are blissfully unaware or just contented. Can't tell how the Europe Sig reservations are trending too to predict how the X would do on the Sig front.

Despite being a champion of Tesla (the two S reservations that I've helped sell to family and friends have now been delivered!), I'd seriously advise anyone who asks me about making an X reservation to avoid the Sig queue, however impatient they might be.

 

[dsm363]

Anything they do (free service) they will have to do for the Sig Model X as well so I'm sure they are taking that into account. I like the engraved plaque idea for the car. Something personalized but not expensive for Tesla to produce.

 

[walla2]

The Signature premium may not have been worth it but it was voluntary in the end. You may have been pushed back by going to the production line but if you determined it simply wasn't worth it to finalize on a Signature model, it still was an option to go back to the production line and save the money. You determined that you'd rather have the Signature model, pay the extra money, and not risk the delay of being put at the end of the line possibly.

You assume alot dsm363. I had no risk of being bumped back to the end of the production line or even far down the line. I had a Signature reservation (that I wanted to get early) and a production reservation of P1407. I had $45,000 tied up with the company. I at one point was going to get a Signature and a production car but after fumbling so much on the first, I cancelled my production reservation when I was at the end of my finalize window. At that point, it was too late to move down, or I would have forfeit $10,000 which was more than the Sig premium. I did not have the option to go back to production without an additional loss over the premium. I voluntarily committed my funds to get the car earlier and Tesla sold the Signature to me with that idea. They fell way behind and failed to deliver on the only reason I upgraded. Tesla did find time to build other people's cars with production reservation numbers in the 2000's that were delivered before my Signature, just not time for mine.

In the end, Tesla lost a sell because of poor communication and missed windows. When I cancelled my other car, they called me back and told me they wanted me back . . . didn't even realize I was a Signature customer that already had a car "in the works." I would not define this as white glove customer service.

 

[dsm363]

You assume alot dsm363. I had no risk of being bumped back to the end of the production line or even far down the line. I had a Signature reservation (that I wanted to get early) and a production reservation of P1407. I had $45,000 tied up with the company. I at one point was going to get a Signature and a production car but after fumbling so much on the first, I cancelled my production reservation when I was at the end of my finalize window. At that point, it was too late to move down, or I would have forfeit $10,000 which was more than the Sig premium. I did not have the option to go back to production without an additional loss over the premium. I voluntarily committed my funds to get the car earlier and Tesla sold the Signature to me with that idea. They fell way behind and failed to deliver on the only reason I upgraded. Tesla did find time to build other people's cars with production reservation numbers in the 2000's that were delivered before my Signature, just not time for mine.

In the end, Tesla lost a sell because of poor communication and missed windows. When I cancelled my other car, they called me back and told me they wanted me back . . . didn't even realize I was a Signature customer that already had a car "in the works." I would not define this as white glove customer service.

If your point is the ramp-up didn't go perfectly or that there were communication issues, I don't think anyone would argue with you. Reservation numbers don't mean delivery sequence. That was well defined before you locked down your Sig model. They said they would deliver Sigs first then 85 kWh packs before 60s and 40s (now canceled) and that standard suspension and the multi coat red would follow in spring. A few Sigs had production issues and had to go back through production and others had trouble getting shipped. So someone with a loaded 85 kWh car and a 2000 reservation number would get their car from P1 who decided to get a 60 or 40 kWh car. Fair? Maybe not but that's how they decided to roll things out and it was announced before you locked in. Yes, some things have changed along the way but that basic sequence has been the same since before people had to finalize. And if you were an early production reservation holder who opted for local pickup vs someone how was taking delivery in Hawaii (I understand they had multiple issues with getting car on the boat) then that makes for a big delivery gap.

What would have been your solution? Should Tesla have halted all deliveries until every single Signature customer got their car regardless of delivery location? This would be the ideal but that would mean storing cars in the factory (and keeping them plugged in) waiting for every last Sig to be delivered. I realize your delivery didn't go smoothly but I'm not sure what solution you would prefer other than an exact delivery sequence based on date ordered.

 

[Doug_G]

Just curious, does anyone have a clue how many SS reservations got the $10k discount? It seems to me there are several classes of Sig owners - friends & family (akin to Founders), SS, SS with $10k discount, early Sig reservations, late Sig reservations and last minute Sig reservations. Tesla can't really have separate perks for all the different subclasses of Sig owners. It has to be one uniform solution.

This was quite the moving target. I had a Roadster, but I wasn't able to get friends or family on the "friends and family" list because they had quietly changed the policy on that to "owners only". I wasn't able to get the $10k discount, which they had quietly discontinued just before I reserved my S. (I know of one Canadian who got the discount after complaining - he was able to prove that a few Americans got the discount after he reserved). Signature wasn't available to Canadians when I made my reservation, so Tesla offered every Canadian who had already ordered a Model S the opportunity to upgrade to Signature without increasing their deposit, as long as they responded within 48 hours. THAT was the one program I was able to take advantage of. On the other hand, our Sig premium was significantly higher than for Americans.

Signature was a much bigger benefit for someone who got on the list at the last minute. He would have gotten a huge boost up the queue.

 

[Eberhard]

you are happy, you got your signature already. we in europe will get possession of ours not before july. that means, we gave for 1 year longer a credit to tesla at full risk but we get compensations only for being ask to buy packets which should be part of the evolution process improving the car by removing problems and hassles found. where is the compensation for the interest we gave up in favor for Tesla? nada!

 

[walla2]

Reservation numbers don't mean delivery sequence. That was well defined before you locked down your Sig model.

This is false. The only cars delivered when I finalized were the Founders' cars. The whole reservation number does not equal delivery sequence thing didn't become clear for quite a while later. That too was a failure and remains one.

What would have been your solution? Should Tesla have halted all deliveries until every single Signature customer got their car regardless of delivery location?

I don't think they should have held up deliveries, but the situation of getting a slightly better than beta car late at a higher cost was my issue. Others have other issues but back to my original point, I do not recommend the Sig line because they won't promise or in some cases even attempt to deliver the car early and there will likely be unfinished design issues/upgrades that production buyers will get for free. They should have done better. They didn't. It is unlikely Tesla will be ready to do better by the Sig X, and they make no verbal or written promises except that they have the right to change everything and deliver on their terms. Sadly, this operating mentality makes me wonder if dealerships would be better but that creates a separate set of problems.

In the end, the solution to my problem has remained elusive. I requested an explanation, apology, or both. For a reason unknown to me, Tesla doesn't seem to be interested in doing that. If they did, I probably wouldn't care as much anymore and could move on. If they told me my car was damaged and had to be rebuilt, great. I would understand that. I wouldn't be able to make some of the arguments against the Sig line. I do not see what is so hard about being honest that they messed up my order and missed multiple opportunities to get the situation under control.

 

[PatP]

you are happy, you got your signature already. we in europe will get possession of ours not before july. that means, we gave for 1 year longer a credit to tesla at full risk but we get compensations only for being ask to buy packets which should be part of the evolution process improving the car by removing problems and hassles found. where is the compensation for the interest we gave up in favor for Tesla? nada!

But you'll get a better car with more options like performance plus or cold weather

 

[Joel]

Anything they do (free service) they will have to do for the Sig Model X as well so I'm sure they are taking that into account. I like the engraved plaque idea for the car. Something personalized but not expensive for Tesla to produce.

This not necessarily true. The Model X pricing has not been announced. Accordingly, there is no known Model X premium. Therefore, Tesla would not have to backtrack on any prepaid options.

My position on this matter is: Signature owners paid more money for equivalent general production cars (with the exception of the limited red paint and white leather). I left "early delivery" out of this discusion because some cars (my father being one) received their cars literally 24-48 hours before general production cars. I understand what you mean by "free service." However, it is more accuarte to phrase it as "prepaid service." I would like the discussion to center on were that premium went or where it is going. To suggest Signature owners are receiving anything for free is incorrect. If Signature owners are to receive anything in the future, we prepaid for it. It was not or will not be free.

But, I agree with you DSM363, this is a slippery slope, and Tesla will not recognize our prepayment retroactively. Honestly (unfortunatly?), I do not expect Tesla to address this issue. However, if Tesla were to do something, I would recommend the Signature premium (again, previously paid funds) be applied to service and/or the coming data plan.

 

[dsm363]

The Sigs do have more leather on the interior so that is one very small physical difference. The price difference was known prior to finalizing so people knew there were spending more for basically the same car. By 'free service' I meant Tesla would pay for the first 4 years of service ($1,900) or refund that amount for those that already bought it. Someone else suggested this as one solution.

The early delivery could be significant. Someone who may have been P8,000 could come in on the tail end of the Sig list. For Sig 1,000 vs P1,000, the difference could be almost nothing depending on which model was ordered.

 

[Joel]

The Sigs do have more leather on the interior so that is one very small physical difference. The price difference was known prior to finalizing so people knew there were spending more for basically the same car. By 'free service' I meant Tesla would pay for the first 4 years of service ($1,900) or refund that amount for those that already bought it. Someone else suggested this as one solution.

The early delivery could be significant. Someone who may have been P8,000 could come in on the tail end of the Sig list. For Sig 1,000 vs P1,000, the difference could be almost nothing depending on which model was ordered.

I see. I did not know about the leather. You learn something new every day :smile:

 

[brianman]

I see. I did not know about the leather. You learn something new every day :smile:

I've mostly paged this out, but my recollection is that the "additional leather" benefit of the "Sig vs. Production" does not translate to the "Sig Perf vs. Production Perf" comparison.

No, I'm not suggesting a "Sig Perf Angst" thread. Just making note of the detail for completeness.

 

[unclfuzzy]

echoing the "wish I hadn't read this thread and re-kindled the sig premium angst" sentiment. The gym bag is nice. haven't used it tho. I definitely don't want any personalized badging. I don't know how long I intend to keep the car, but I certainly don't want to think about my name popping up on the screen or emblazoned in the frunk for the next owner. +1 for including service, but I'm with the folks who are assuming it's basically a donation to Tesla.

 

[huntjo]

I never even got a gym bag

 

[Joel]

I never even got a gym bag

If it's any consolation, my family has three Signatures (myself, brother, and father). We received 1 gym bag (my brother and father were disappointed).

 

[dflye]

At least for me, the benefits of being a Sig owner are practically non-existent compared with the additional expense. Minor badging tweaks, various minor interior / exterior changes, some that seem to randomly drop off the production line (whether one is a sig or not!), a few extremely minor perks like a gym bag... the notion of getting the car earlier certainly didn't pan out for me on the east coast.

So, while I'm glad to have helped out Tesla financially as they ramped up production, it really was a case of over-sell and under-deliver as far as I'm concerned. Avoid like the plague for future models, at least if the future mimics the past.

 

[spentan]

Hmm, I've got a RHD Signature S Reservation, and when I did the maths, considering all the stuff which was included on the Sig, If you were to get all those extras (Tech Package, Sound, Twin Chargers, 21in wheels, Multi-Coat Sig Red Paint, etc etc), it basically worked out to about 2-3k more for the signature (which is why I upgraded my standard reservation).

I am hoping that the RHD Sigs will have all the bugs ironed out, I think most are happy with their cars now. I don't know if I'd bother with the Performance Plus personally, hmm,

 

[Psullivan]

I think many of us bought Sigs for many reasons. I really wanted the Sig red for one. I also felt strongly about supporting the company and technology too. I put my money where my mouth was in the deposit and buying the stock. I too wish there were a few more perks for taking the financial risk early on with the Sig. I hope there will be more in the future. As others have mentioned maybe we could get some perks in the service area or with upgrades. I would actually like to see Sig owners get a reserved parking spot or two at the Tesla stores in the malls. (That probably won't play well with the production owners, sorry guys). I was recently at the Santana Row store in San Jose needing a charge. The place was full with new cars. The store staff said the owners hadn't checked in with them. (As a side note it would be a nice courtesy when owners park at the mall in the Tesla spots that they check in with the store in case some of us road trippers need a charge. At least leave your phone number). In San Diego where we live we leave our FOB just in case someone needs power.) For me the jury is still out if the Sig was fully worth it but I did get my car in November and still have the "grin".

 

[Blurry_Eyed]

Psullivan, If you jot down the VIN of the cars that are plugged in, you can give them to the people in the Tesla store and they can try to contact the respective owners by phone since their numbers are in the Tesla system. I've received a couple calls from the Bellevue store when they have needed me to move my car so they could access the chargers there. May not work all the time if someone doesn't have a cell phone number input in the Tesla system, but worth a shot if you really need a charge and all the spots are blocked with owners cars.

 

[Trnsl8r]

Psullivan, If you jot down the VIN of the cars that are plugged in, you can give them to the people in the Tesla store and they can try to contact the respective owners by phone since their numbers are in the Tesla system. I've received a couple calls from the Bellevue store when they have needed me to move my car so they could access the chargers there. May not work all the time if someone doesn't have a cell phone number input in the Tesla system, but worth a shot if you really need a charge and all the spots are blocked with owners cars.

Not to stray too far off topic, but Santana Row could really do well with a sign or two in the parking area, letting owners know what's what... If you make your bed...