Smaller and Lighter wheels make you faster, more efficient, and offer better road hazard protection.

[mpgxsvcd]

It is important to understand what impact heating the battery has and at what speeds that impact occurs at.

I have seen as much as a 30 KW(40 HP) difference between my car’s max output in Track Mode with a warm battery vs. Sport Mode with an optimized battery. However, that output difference is negligible up to about 40 mph. After 40 mph the difference is fairly constant up to about 120 mph.

Now with a cold battery and a low SOC I have seen a potential difference of almost 90 HP.

Please note that just driving the car around might get the battery to 30-35 C. Optimal performance doesn’t occur till about 53 C. You can’t reach optimal performance without preconditioning the car.

A lot of people have treated driving the car aggressively as the same thing as preconditioning. That isn’t remotely close to the same thing. Yes, it can heat the brakes and motors to high temps but I have never seen it come close to heating the battery to preconditioning temps.

The highest battery inlet temp I have seen is 59 C when fast charging with the CCS adapter.

 

[FirstInTown]

It is important to understand what impact heating the battery has and at

The highest battery inlet temp I have seen is 59 C when fast charging with the CCS Adapter.

View attachment 863111View attachment 863110View attachment 863109

I just bought the CCS Adapter for my MX. I hope the high Temps aren't worse for the battery than Super Charging. Is it true this CCS temp is higher than Temps you see with Superb Charging? Sorry to get off subject.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I just bought the CCS Adapter for my MX. I hope the high Temps aren't worse for the battery than Super Charging. Is it true this CCS temp is higher than Temps you see with Superb Charging? Sorry to get off subject.

That is the highest I have seen. However, the next highest is about 57 C when Supercharging so it isn’t that much more. I don’t know how much heat affects battery longevity.

 

[SantaCruzOMB]

I really hoped the performance gains we're greater but a 0.1 second 1/4 mile improvement is equivalent to adding 13hp. That's $231 for 1hp for an entry set of 18's and tires.

Engine Horsepower Calculator

This free engine horsepower calculator estimates vehicle engine horsepower using two different methods: the elapsed time method and the trap-speed method.

www.calculator.net

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I really hoped the performance gains we're greater but a 0.1 second 1/4 mile improvement is equivalent to adding 13hp. That's $231 for 1hp for an entry set of 18's and tires.

Engine Horsepower Calculator

This free engine horsepower calculator estimates vehicle engine horsepower using two different methods: the elapsed time method and the trap-speed method.

www.calculator.net

It is kind of pointless to think about it in terms of horsepower. Either .1 seconds is worth it to you or it isn’t. You won’t necessarily feel .1 seconds but it absolutely can make a difference at the track.

I beat a modified TrackHawk and a modified Audi S7. Without the wheels I might not have won those races. It was worth it to me but maybe not someone else.

You also have to factor in that the wheels and tires do way more than just help acceleration. They help with road hazards. They can last longer. They also help with efficiency.

 

[tm1v2]

I really hoped the performance gains we're greater but a 0.1 second 1/4 mile improvement is equivalent to adding 13hp. That's $231 for 1hp for an entry set of 18's and tires.

Engine Horsepower Calculator

This free engine horsepower calculator estimates vehicle engine horsepower using two different methods: the elapsed time method and the trap-speed method.

www.calculator.net

@SantaCruzOMB Check the cost savings from 18" vs 20" tires, such as 245/45R18 vs 245/35R20 for a width-for-width comparison. Basic 18" wheels will pay for themselves after a few sets of tires.

Plus all the other benefits @mpgxsvcd listed. 235/35 or even 245/35 is not enough sidewall to protect cast Tesla wheels when the road gets rough. Guess how I know...

 

[BigNick]

You also have to factor in that the wheels and tires do way more than just help acceleration. They help with road hazards. They can last longer. They also help with efficiency.

Check the cost savings from 18" vs 20" tires, such as 245/45R18 vs 245/35R20 for a width-for-width comparison. Basic 18" wheels will pay for themselves after a few sets of tires.

These are the reasons I plan to downsize to 18s after using up the original Pirelli 20-inchers.

I'm still up in the air over which specific 18s to get, maybe Titan-7 T-S5 or TSportline TS-S (the ones that resemble the original Model S Arachnid wheels). The TSportline package deals are admittedly an easier way to go but TSportline's wheels are flow formed vs Titan-7's fully forged.

Considering I still haven't hit 2000 miles after 10 months, I have time to decide.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

These are the reasons I plan to downsize to 18s after using up the original Pirelli 20-inchers.

I'm still up in the air over which specific 18s to get, maybe Titan-7 T-S5 or TSportline TS-S (the ones that resemble the original Model S Arachnid wheels). The TSportline package deals are admittedly an easier way to go but TSportline's wheels are flow formed vs Titan-7's fully forged.

Considering I still haven't hit 2000 miles after 10 months, I have time to decide.

If you have less than 2,000 miles on the original wheels and they are in great shape then pull them off and either sell them immediately or keep them for when you trade the car in. Those original wheels and especially the low mileage tires have real value. However, once you put a lot of miles on those tires or damage the wheels they will lose value dramatically.

The Titan 7 wheels seem like a great deal. However, they always appear to be out of stock and how much is it going to cost to get the 4 wheels, 4 tires, and 4 TPMS sensors with shipping and mounting/balancing? Every time I added up the entire cost of buying those items separately it always came to a total that was MUCH higher than the T Sportline package price especially with their 10% discount and the free shipping deal I got.

The Titan wheels weigh 3.2 lbs less than the T Sportline wheels even though the dimensions are similar. So how important are those 3.2 lbs?

Going from the 32 lb 20” wheels to 22 lb T Sportline wheels reduces rotational inertia by an estimated 80%. Going to the Titan wheels decreases that rotational inertia by an estimated 110%.

So yes the 3 lb lighter wheels makes a difference but it isn’t anywhere near what going from the Uberturbine wheels to the T Sportline wheels is. That extra 30% might get you an extra .03 seconds or less. That may not be worth the extra money.

For the price and ease of getting the plug and play wheels and tires shipped quickly I really couldn’t find a better value than the T Sportline wheels.

Here is Engineering Explained’s video on this. He explains it perfectly.

 

[tm1v2]

To me, the bigger advantage of forged wheels in this application is their extra strength, not the marginally lower weight. That extra strength is not so critical with 18" on this car - it would be really useful for the stock 20" size! - but I think it's a real benefit nonetheless.

Depends what you drive on of course. The roads where I am can crack stock Tesla wheels (that Model S wheel I posted), tear apart metal under the car (happened to a Model S loaner last year), knock endlinks loose (just happened recently on the M3P), etc. And that's just the paved roads. We also drive on long gravel and dirt driveways regularly. Having forged Titan7 wheels gives me a little extra peace of mind that they'll take the beating.

Of course anything can break, and if your forged wheels break they'll cost extra to replace, so there is that to consider.

Honestly though pick the wheels that'll make you happiest when you walk up to your car!

 

[BigNick]

As for keeping the original Uberturbines pristine to sell them, it’s already too late. A small piece of road debris, stone or something got one on the 100-mile drive home from the Devon SC. No curb rash or scraping but the paint is chipped. Could probably be touched up.

 

[blower]

I have yet to see any evidence that this is software limited. If I did a 0-60 mph run down a steep hill I believe I could exceed 1G in my car. There are people on Dragy who have exceeded 1G and no they aren’t the guy that tries to pass his electric Harley off as a Model 3.

I just did a drag test, starting from stop on a significant downhill slope. Surprisingly, there really does look to be a 1g acceleration limit...

Best 0-60 I've ever got of course, but you would expect better considering it was a fair downhill slope. My SOC was 70% so I maybe could have gone faster but this really was downhill, and the acceleration graph looks like it is bumping off a 1g internal limit.

I'll have to do another test at some point with higher SOC but I can't see it making much difference, if you saw the extent of the slope I accelerated down - you'd laugh!

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I just did a drag test, starting from stop on a significant downhill slope. Surprisingly, there really does look to be a 1g acceleration limit...

View attachment 864325

Best 0-60 I've ever got of course, but you would expect better considering it was a fair downhill slope. My SOC was 70% so I maybe could have gone faster but this really was downhill, and the acceleration graph looks like it is bumping off a 1g internal limit.

I'll have to do another test at some point with higher SOC but I can't see it making much difference, if you saw the extent of the slope I accelerated down - you'd laugh!

Sorry, but looking at that graph and concluding that there is a 1 G limit isn’t reasonable. First, you acknowledge your car wasn’t anywhere close to optimal performance. Battery temperature and battery state of charge matter even below 60 mph.

Here is how big a difference in 0-60 mph I have seen just going from 432 KW “Max Discharge” to 459 KW.

432 KW “Max Discharge”

459 KW “Max Discharge”

Do that same test with a 459+ KW “Max Discharge” value. My guess is that it will be WAY faster. If it isn’t way faster after that test then perhaps that will demonstrate it is limited in some way.

Look how similar my graphs look for the first half. However, it drops off massively at the end for the car with the lower “max discharge” value.

Your graph is showing an even greater drop off and a MUCH higher acceleration for the first half. The slope is helping your car a lot there where max acceleration occurs.

Your example really isn’t a fair test. The car needs to be at its full potential to draw any reasonable conclusions.

It seems like everyone underestimates how significant optimizing both the battery temps and the battery State of Charge is. The difference is MASSIVE when you optimize both of those things.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I just did a drag test, starting from stop on a significant downhill slope. Surprisingly, there really does look to be a 1g acceleration limit...

View attachment 864325

Best 0-60 I've ever got of course, but you would expect better considering it was a fair downhill slope. My SOC was 70% so I maybe could have gone faster but this really was downhill, and the acceleration graph looks like it is bumping off a 1g internal limit.

I'll have to do another test at some point with higher SOC but I can't see it making much difference, if you saw the extent of the slope I accelerated down - you'd laugh!

It is important to note that you can achieve that same time without going down that steep hill and without exceeding 1G of acceleration. This is downhill but not nearly as much as Dragy indicates. This is a valid -.99% downhill former NHRA track.

I honestly don’t think it is software limited. Reducing weight and reducing rotational inertia will reduce those times and at least one car has shown it can go well under 3.0 seconds once you do that.

 

[smithrukami]

There has been a lot of debate about what effects smaller and lighter wheels have on the Model 3 Performance. I am here to end that debate.

Stock the Model 3 Performance now comes with 20" UberTurbine wheels with 235/35/20 Pirelli PZ4 tires. Those wheels weigh 32 lbs and the combined wheel, tire, TPMS sensor, and hub cap weighed 56 lbs on my bathroom scale when I weighed them.

100% stock I was able to get my ¼ mile times all the way down to 11.43 @ 117+ mph and my best 0-60 mph was 3.23 seconds without the 1 foot rollout subtracted and 3.04 with the rollout subtracted. I was able to do a 25 mile loop around our 60 mph beltway at an average speed of 59.9 mph and an efficiency of 254 wh/mi. I didn't have any damage to my rims but I had to be extremely careful going over any potholes.

View attachment 825415View attachment 825403View attachment 825408

Once I switched to the T Sportline 18" TS5 wheels(45.8 lbs wheels, tires, and TPMS Sensors) and 235/45/18 Michelin PS4S tires I was able to consistently run 11.32 @ 121 mph 1/4 mile times on the same track and my best 0-60 mph time dropped to 3.11 without subtracting rollout and 2.94 with the rollout subtracted.

View attachment 825417View attachment 825410

I even did an exact 1:1 comparison test at the Galot race track with the 20" Uberturbine wheels and the 18" T Sportline wheels being the only significant variable that changed. There I was about .08 seconds faster for 0-60 mph through the 1/8 and 1/4 mile. However, my absolute best 1/4 mile time is now an 11.271 @ 121.79 mph when I was able to optimize everything at the Rockingham Dragstrip. My only weight reduction was the 40 lbs I dropped by going with the lighter wheels and tires.

View attachment 825405View attachment 825406View attachment 825407View attachment 825427

My efficiency with the 18" T Sportline wheels was 227 wh/mi on the 25 mile loop with a 59.8 mph average speed. That was 27 wh/mi better than I could achieve on the 20" UberHeavy wheels. That would equate to about 37 more miles of range(~12%) on a full battery charge.

View attachment 825409

Here is a video below explaining all of the things I have done to make my car so much faster. My next video will go over the changes that improved my efficiency.

I paid just over $3000 for the wheels, tires, and TPMS sensors. While the performance improvements alone wouldn't be worth that much when you factor in the efficiency and durability improvements then it starts to make more sense.

The most important thing to remember is that going to a lighter 20" or perhaps even 19" wheel won't necessarily show these kinds of improvements. You really need to go all the way down to the 18" wheel size to decrease rotational inertia significantly. That also gives you the best protection against potholes as well.

All believable but the bottom line is in my opinion the sport line rims look crappy because they’re aftermarket; so for the times you get to show off racing against somebody versus all the other times the car looks cool it’s not worth the trade off in my opinion. Most people don’t realize one second better off your time is about one car length over the next guy SO I’d rather be one car length slower with nice looking wheels.

If speed is really your game save for a Plaid.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Most people don’t realize one second better off your time is about one car length over the next guy SO I’d rather be one car length slower with nice looking wheels.

If speed is really your game save for a Plaid.

A full second difference is almost 50 feet difference 0-60 mph. You couldn’t be more wrong unless you are driving around in a 50 foot car that does 0-60 mph in about 3 seconds.

 

[EVolv3d]

I did rolling dynos for every run so I could track how the car was performing throughout the runs.

View attachment 825473


View attachment 863111

Thanks for sharing all of the data! I'm also obsessed with data analysis

I did my final Dragy testing today on my stock wheels/tires before swapping to the new setup in the coming weeks. I'd love to see my 0-60 drop by a tenth to 3.10 or below. I know I can't top the Dragy leaderboard without weight reduction (ie lightweight battery, removing backseat, etc.). Maybe I'll have my wife do the testing for me

0-60 mph: 3.20s
0-60 mph (1-ft rollout): 3.01s
0-100 mph: 7.99s
1/8-mile: 7.28s @ 96.69 mph

I stopped after 100 mph, but the run was on track for a 1/4 mile time of ~11.40-11.42 @ 117.x mph.

Details via SMT (ScanMyTesla):
92% SoC
48C battery cell temp mid
452kW max discharge power
55F ambient temp
42psi tire pressure

Below is a dyno plot that I constructed using the SMT logging & Virtual Dyno app. I tune a lot of EFI cars and this app is typically pretty accurate as long as you have good data log on flat road and account for the weight, wheel/tire size, gearing, etc. The results are actually pretty close to the MYP dyno that MPP had shared.

 

[mpgxsvcd]

Thanks for sharing all of the data! I'm also obsessed with data analysis

I did my final Dragy testing today on my stock wheels/tires before swapping to the new setup in the coming weeks. I'd love to see my 0-60 drop by a tenth to 3.10 or below. I know I can't top the Dragy leaderboard without weight reduction (ie lightweight battery, removing backseat, etc.). Maybe I'll have my wife do the testing for me

View attachment 875323 View attachment 875324

0-60 mph: 3.20s
0-60 mph (1-ft rollout): 3.01s
0-100 mph: 7.99s
1/8-mile: 7.28s @ 96.69 mph

I stopped after 100 mph, but the run was on track for a 1/4 mile time of ~11.40-11.42 @ 117.x mph.

Details via SMT (ScanMyTesla):
92% SoC
48C battery cell temp mid
452kW max discharge power
55F ambient temp
42psi tire pressure

Below is a dyno plot that I constructed using the SMT logging & Virtual Dyno app. I tune a lot of EFI cars and this app is typically pretty accurate as long as you have good data log on flat road and account for the weight, wheel/tire size, gearing, etc. The results are actually pretty close to the MYP dyno that MPP had shared.

View attachment 875317

View attachment 875322

Good stuff. Changing the wheels and tires should help.

I am finally going to test interior weight reduction this weekend. I will remove 144 lbs from the interior and the Frunk this weekend when I do the last Test and Tune of the season. My goal is to get a 3.09 or better 0-60 mph without subtracting rollout and an 11.25 @ 122 mph 1/4 mile time. It may not be possible with the cooler temperatures now but I am still going to try anyway.

 

[EVolv3d]

I am finally going to test interior weight reduction this weekend. I will remove 144 lbs from the interior and the Frunk this weekend when I do the last Test and Tune of the season. My goal is to get a 3.09 or better 0-60 mph without subtracting rollout and an 11.25 @ 122 mph 1/4 mile time. It may not be possible with the cooler temperatures now but I am still going to try anyway.

I look forward to seeing the new leader on the Dragy leaderboard! The 3.07s 0-60mph record has been held for over a year now by EVNV.

88% SOC
19" Forged 20lb wheels
235/40/19 PS4S tires
Removed backseat
Lightweight "jockey" driver

They had previously ran a 3.28s 0-60 at 87% SOC, stock Uberturbine wheels/tires & 170lb driver.

I'd love to see you smash all of the records. My predictions/goals for you:

0-60mph: ~3.05s
1/8 mile: ~7.15s
1/4 mile: < 11.25s (the fastest I've seen is 11.218 @ 120.63 mph)

All that's left at this point is to remove the passenger seat, a lightweight battery to save another ~20lbs, lighter brake rotors to reduce some more rotational mass, and find a lighter ~100lb driver I think a ~2.99s 0-60mph is possible, but it just depends on if someone is willing to strip there car to get there. An 11.19 1/4 mile time may be possible with enough weight reduction. After that, we would need a tuning solution or software update.

 

[EVolv3d]

View attachment 863111

I was looking at your charts and doing some analysis of my own and noticed an interesting trend. It does appear that Tesla may limiting the initial launch (~0-10mph range). It hits the "1.0G limit" that many mention and acceleration rapidly drops. You can actually see the rear motor torque output drop in this range, despite sufficient battery power. It looks like Tesla may be dropping the battery amps and/or phase amps here. They then ramp the battery current up progressively from there. It doesn't appear to be a battery limitation as it's clearly capable of more amps. The front motor doesn't appear to experience this dip.

Drop in rear motor torque, but not front motor:

Drop in battery current (amps):

 

[mpgxsvcd]

I look forward to seeing the new leader on the Dragy leaderboard! The 3.07s 0-60mph record has been held for over a year now by EVNV.

88% SOC
19" Forged 20lb wheels
235/40/19 PS4S tires
Removed backseat
Lightweight "jockey" driver

They had previously ran a 3.28s 0-60 at 87% SOC, stock Uberturbine wheels/tires & 170lb driver.

I'd love to see you smash all of the records. My predictions/goals for you:

0-60mph: ~3.05s
1/8 mile: ~7.15s
1/4 mile: < 11.25s (the fastest I've seen is 11.218 @ 120.63 mph)

All that's left at this point is to remove the passenger seat, a lightweight battery to save another ~20lbs, lighter brake rotors to reduce some more rotational mass, and find a lighter ~100lb driver I think a ~2.99s 0-60mph is possible, but it just depends on if someone is willing to strip there car to get there. An 11.19 1/4 mile time may be possible with enough weight reduction. After that, we would need a tuning solution or software update.

Passenger seat comes out tomorrow night. I still need to pick my daughter up from school in it tomorrow so it needs to stay in the car until then. It will be down 144 lbs with all of the seats out.

I doubt I can hit those numbers but who knows. I am 6’4” and about 195 lbs. My daughter who is 90 lbs asked if she could drive it at the track? I told her she needs to get her license first then we will talk. It would get the record for sure with her driving.

I am planning on “cutting weight” while the car is charging. I will get a pretty swift run in at the track before my first launch. That should get me down below 190 lbs.

I think they have the scales open at the track again. I will weigh it before the first run with me in it. I think it will be 4,173 lbs with me in it.