Knightshade
Well-Known Member
What "regulators" do you imagine control how your car moves on someones private property?
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Smart summon liability?
- Thread starter PhantomX
- Start date
What "regulators" do you imagine control how your car moves on someones private property?
Whether the car is autonomous or not, the owner will always be responsible. If the car rolled into a wall, owner is responsible. If you have a dog and it runs down the street then bites someone, owner is responsible.if something is your property and it damages something, the owner is responsible.
Garlan Garner
Banned
Not for me.
The primary insurance owner is the responsible party...not the owner.
So...obviously a dog and a car are handled differently.
I can lend my car to my neighbor, and if he hits someone then they may sue him and he might go to jail for the crime, however my insurance will have to pay for damages ( medical or material ).
Same holds true for summon according to my insurance company.
NHTSA... If the car has features it determines are defective/unsafe, they'll require a recall.
Also, this feature is about parking lots/structures. People parking in lots and structures generally don't the property they are parking on.
If unmanned, remotely summonsed, Teslas get a reputation for crashing into pedestrians, shopping carts, other cars, or things like landscaping (or even if they just start clogging up the flow of vehicles in the lot or alarming other drivers), how long do you think it will be before lot/structure owners start banning the use of summons on their property?
lunitiks
Cool James & Black Teacher
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Nope.
NHTSA has "voluntary guidelines" for self-driving tech- no actual regulations though.
Automated Driving Systems
(and they certainly don't determine what you can do on private property)
Sure. But you didn't say defective- you said an accident.
Cars with drivers in em run over kids all the time in accidents- nobody recalls the car over it though. And a car with 360 cameras and ultrasonic sensors is far less likely to run over said kid than a human driver.
Nor would they need to.
The fact it's private property means laws governing operating of a vehicle on a public road do not apply. WHO the private owner is doesn't make any difference to that.
QUOTE="Economite, post: 3434877, member: 55821"]
If unmanned, remotely summonsed, Teslas get a reputation for crashing into pedestrians, shopping carts, other cars, or things like landscaping (or even if they just start clogging up the flow of vehicles in the lot or alarming other drivers), how long do you think it will be before lot/structure owners start banning the use of summons on their property?[/QUOTE]
And that they'd be perfectly in their rights to do.
But I think you're now inventing imaginary problems we have no evidence of.
Yes, Tesla clearly states that the driver of the car (which in this case is the person using the phone app and holding their finger on the Advanced Summon button) is responsible for the car. If it hits something while moving under Summon, they are responsible.
Summon is not for use on public roads. I suspect the car checks it’s GPS location against the map database and determines whether or not it is on a public road and then whether or not it will allow Summon to be used.
Agreed, all this talk about “regulators” stepping in and stopping Summon from being used doesn’t make much sense. Said “regulators” have jurisdiction over public roads, not private property like parking lots.
Of course private property owners who have parking lots can post signs saying “Use of Tesla Summon prohibited” on their property and they would be within their rights to do so, as far as I know.
Advance Summon appears to have limited utility, and I would use it with great caution and only while you can see the car. In fact, I likely won’t use it at all as I prefer to walk. Standing and watching my Tesla slowly approach me might be entertaining the first time, but boring the second.
I have used Summon to get my car out of a parking space when an adjacent car has parked so close to my driver’s door that I can’t get in. That is an excellent use of Summon, in my opinion.
True.
Not so sure that is true. Please provide a source to support your assertion.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
Teslas own data shows cars on autopilot have accidents far less often than with humans driving.
No reason to think driving 5 mph in a parking lot would break from the pattern seen doing 75 on interstates, especially since the sonic sensors particularly are much more useful at low speed than high.
The data Tesla has released says nothing about how often they “run over kids” in parking lots which is I believe what you were discussing. So we can’t compare a Tesla on Summon in a parking lot to other cars driven by humans in parking lots (and I’m not aware of “kid” fatality data in parking lots).
My point is, you are speculating without supporting data. It’s okay to speculate, just acknowledged it.
I agree with you that probably there are no instances of Tesla’s on Summon in a parking lot hitting a kid. But how many miles have Teslas driven in parking lots while on Summon? A very low number. So you can’t compare that to the number of miles all other cars have been driven by humans in parking lots.
An automation feature that causes a level of accidents/injuries that NHTSA considers to be inappropriate will be considered defective by them.
You're assuming that the summons will work well. I doubt that assumption.
And if the feature is causing accidents, NHTSA is unlikely to care that Tesla has tried to limit its use to private property.
Knightshade
Well-Known Member
I'm not "assuming" so much as taking what little data we DO have on teslas automated accident rate being much lower than humans, and then applying that data to a situation where the car should have a much easier time since it's operating at speeds 5-10 times slower.
The conclusion that gets us may prove incorrect, but I think what facts we do have suggest otherwise pretty solidly.
No, it discusses how often the automated systems fail at speeds 5-10 times higher than parking lots, where the sensors are less useful and accurate than they would be in parking lots. See above on that point.
RyanDe
Member
You have to read through the marketing. Remember back when they said AP could do X and Y and then you got it and it could do x and y instead? Well, the same thing with ES. Can it find you in a parking lot? Sure, if it's an empty parking lot and you're within line of site and your car and your phone has perfect GPS and LTE access. But, that's not the case often so, it will fail most of the time or worse cause accidents.
I want it to work but I know it won't work they way I need it to in order to feel comfortable using it. I've made my peace, it's a parlor trick and probably always will be.
I want it to work but I know it won't work they way I need it to in order to feel comfortable using it. I've made my peace, it's a parlor trick and probably always will be.
chronopc
Active Member
The owner of the car will definitely be liable. Whether or not Tesla is also liable is the real question.
^^^ This.
And if Tesla is claiming that the feature is designed to be activated by car owners who are outside of the line-of-sight of their car, I can't imagine that the parents of the first kid killed by this feature won't be suing Tesla.
chronopc
Active Member
I completely agree. As much as I would like the feature, the potential liability for Tesla is so high, I don't see how they could release it.
RyanDe
Member
Unlike summon which used BT probably so you had to be close this uses LTE so you can be further away it's only software that is limiting. But, this means there is nothing stopping someone from starting it while they are in line or walking to the car etc which is where the trouble will start.
Honestly, I don't think it's a danger but it's SLOW as f*ck and is stupid so I see a lot of people getting pissed at Tesla owners because of this.
Honestly, I don't think it's a danger but it's SLOW as f*ck and is stupid so I see a lot of people getting pissed at Tesla owners because of this.
RyanDe
Member
This is the problem, they will release it it will just suck...so, why bother? Just like autopark and summon now they're cool on paper and to maybe show off but are not actually practical for normal people to use.
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