I find it interesting there are so many incredibly negative opponents to the loss of stalks, but almost no-one has actually driven the car yet. I'm reserving judgement until I've had a chance to actually drive a car without them. I suspect using the indicator buttons on the wheel will become second nature very quickly.
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So… Highland is out…
- Thread starter boombap
- Start date
Pagemakers
Active Member
I find it interesting that people think there won’t be 3rd party solutions for stalks. Just like there were for yokes. And if Tesla finds that sales are hurting due to stalkless, they can always add them back in as well.
Probably because it’s extremely hard to say that this is ever going to be an improvement. As humans we generally don’t like change but will eventually learn it and start to praise it if it’s a genuine improvement.
The issue here is it isn’t an improvement. I don’t think anyone has ever said the interior of a car is ruined by a couple of stalks hidden mostly behind a steering wheel. This is a change in the same vain as the yolk, it’s a bad idea but Elon pushes these on us all sometimes.
I read a story where Elon didn’t like it when his Twitter data centre team told him it would take 6 months minimum to move equipment to another DC. He apparently turned up the following day saying he could have it done in 2 weeks and just started switching stuff off and ripping it out of the DC. He’s mostly a very smart man in my opinion but he also doesn’t listen to reason sometimes when he gets it in his head he wants something his way.
The cost saving here is minimal, it’ll impact sales and I expect them to reverse this decision. It’ll take a slow down in sales to occur after the people that don’t care have finished buying because it’s an improved model. So maybe 1 - 2 years before they’ll come back would be my guess.
You’re posting in the uk subforum and we modify cars a lot less than Americans, if at all.
I think there’s also the view that we shouldn’t need to, 3rd party solutions are always a bodge
As for the yolk, the solution wasn’t necessarily a 3rd party one, you can buy a regular steering wheel from Tesla.
I apply the test I always ask, if BMW or Mercedes had done this would you be defending them so strongly or would you be calling them out for the crazy decision?
Zilla91
Active Member
Indeed, not going to be cheap. Then you’ve the fact that a good amount of people lease via salary sacrifice so the car isn’t technically there’s to modify and certainly cannot let the insurance know.
You just shouldn’t have to modify a car for something like this.
Dasher
Member
In my view, this is also a reduction in the safety of the car. It is not just that it may be possible to learn to indicate based on one of two closely placed buttons in a random orientation, but an urgent wiper wash or headlamp flash could be required. Both of these take no thought at the moment, but I doubt that will be the case with mobile buttons. Like many people, I drive my partner's car and others, and sometimes they drive mine. Having a significantly different placement for controls which are sometimes used urgently is always a problem. I remember the confusion when wiper stalks were on the right in some cars and on the left in others.
Since the Model 3 is rightly regarded as a very safe car, it seems perverse to reduce that safety level.
Doudeau
Member
I’m amazed to keep spotting Teslas without parking sensors on the road as I wouldn’t contemplate buying one. I’ve seen a fair few of those with what looks like parking damage too 
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Unless they come back or vision improves to compensate then I wouldn’t even try to see if one without a stalk was acceptable to me. Shame as the improvements in the highland look good.
. Unless they come back or vision improves to compensate then I wouldn’t even try to see if one without a stalk was acceptable to me. Shame as the improvements in the highland look good.
MrBadger
Badger out
Maybe because we have driven cars with similar controls but for less critical functions and know what a clusterfuck they are when the steering is not optimally positioned.
(Edit - originally quoted wrong post as phone was wrong way around
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WannabeOwner
Well-Known Member
My surprise is that they didn't get enough data from stalkless MS / MX sales to have already given them the answer before it became fait accomplis for the Highland
Not suite the same, but plenty of after market stuff that people add. Decent boot mats, PPF or other paint protection compounds, light bars, etc. ... could perhaps make the argument for those too - let alone different wheels, tinted windows, puddle lights, go-faster-stripes et al.
Personally I'd be quite happy to add 3rd party stalks if that was my only gripe and I found I didn't get on with the wheel-buttons (which I'm figuring I won't, but I aint tried them yet, to know)
I find the door handles a nuisance - every time someone new wants to get into the car I have to explain how to use them, and New York taxis have a sticker on the side with instructions. Totally unnecessary, other streamlined options are available.
They aren’t selling as many Model S / X as they wanted but there’s a few factors also at play there. It was mostly only available in the US until recently where I think it’s less of an issue, European sales are likely still people prepared to overlook it for what is about the fastest car you can get and certainly for a very reasonable price. I mean Ferrari have tried this and they still sell those Ferrari’s, it’s just a specialist limited run product and not mass market.
Model 3 and Y when they change that play to a completely different segment. It’s a mass market car and I think regular folks will be far less forgiving.
These are mere speculations.
I am not in the stalk or no stalk camp. But I don’t think it is that hard to indicate without the stalk. Yes, I haven’t driven it, so I can’t comment on whether this is an improvement over stalks or not and I don’t agree with the view of @GeorgeSymonds and few others that this is definitely not an improvement over stalks. But when a group of people constantly saying how dangerous it is to take the eye off the road, I am slightly concerned - not finger pointing at anyone but if you are a Tesla owner the car does to an extent make you take the eye off the road many times because of the way we interact with the car. And a slight gaze from the corner of our eyes on the steering wheel while near the round about isn’t going to increase the accident rate dramatically and that is my humble opinion. The switches are marked visually with a reasonable distance where you can quickly figure out which one to press even if it is upside down. And there is some tactile feedback on top of that.
Before Tesla started allowing the option for the round wheel vs yoke, there was 3rd party solutions as shown below.
Model S / X Plaid & Long Range Yoke Replacement 360 Hand Upholstered Steering Wheel
This product only fits 2021 - 2023 Tesla Model S / X without a center horn. Our Tesla Model S / X 360 Yoke Replacement Steering Wheel employs the factory Model S / X Yoke design with the addition of a top section for those looking for a traditional full 360 steering wheel. Starting with an...
tsportline.com
Can these companies not ship to UK? Not sure about govt approval.
Isn’t car wow referenced in that X post, based in UK?
I am simply stating there will be 3rd party options. Wether I think stalks should be in the car or not is irrelevant. If I buy the car and don’t like the stalkless, I buy the add on. Not ideal but not the end of the world either.
And as others have stated, if it starts affecting sales, Tesla could always add it back as an option.
A BMW/Mercedes purchase decision for me would not be based on the stalks if there will be an option to add them later either by the company or 3rd party. A lease is a different story though. I wouldn’t want to buy that add on for a car I didn’t own. But I never lease.
I don’t agree with many decisions Tesla makes. They shouldn’t remove options until their replacement is working better. Like vision parking vs USS, auto wipers. But those are things that can’t be corrected with other solutions. Stalks and yoke are things that could be. I’d “prefer” Tesla have the option for stalks like they do yokes now. Covers both camps.
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It's not easy though is it?
When it is upside down, the left indicator (which normally points left and on the bottom) will be pointing right and on the top? So do you cross your arms whilst steering to keep your thumb on the correct button at the risk of the airbag going off on your arm in an accident, or do you feed the wheel then have to work out which button means what, by the time you might be part the point of indicating?
I don't think anybody is suggesting people won't get used to it, but it is also unnecessarily thought burden.
Next time you're driving pretend you have the buttons to press instead and make not of how many times they wheel isn't straight when you need to indicate. Having the buttons be fixed and the wheel move around them, or having indicators as triggers on the back of the wheel would both be better solutions.
Do you think it’ll be easier to indicator with buttons on a moving steering wheel or with stalks?
If you agree that stalks do make more sense, what is the rationale for removing them and downgrading the experience? Other than saving Tesla a few dollars, can you think of a good reason that benefits the buyer of the car?
I understand you think that you can get used to them. I can think of a few people where complicating a car and the things they have to think about while steering just isn’t a good idea.
There’s a good chance that Tesla reverses course on this like they did for the yoke if sales suffer.
And yes, to buy the stalk 3rd party option for a lease would be unwise unless the price is reasonable and easy to remove.
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I have quite often adjusted the volume or muted the stereo with the wheel upside down. Obviously that doesn't have the same level of urgency as indicating, but it just takes some spatial awareness. I'm sure some would find it more difficult that others.
I'll certainly pay a bit more attention next time I'm driving, to see where the wheel is when needing to indicate. The only time I can think of that the wheel may be more than a quarter turn away from straight (buttons a the top or bottom) would be quite a small roundabout, which seems to be the most complained about scenario. In almost any other situation you would be indicating in advance of a maneuver when the wheel is straight, or at least close enough to it that your hands would be in the right position.
Some if not most of the points seem subjective in this video, with the reviewers liking everything. Personally, I think the Highland front end looks more like many other newer sedans. I think the ‘23 has more personality.
Probably the most important thing for me is the ride quality, on which they reported mixed results. But I do think they are sincere in thinking the new car is better, and it probably is.
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