Software Update 2018.21.9 75bdbc11

[croman]

We can also count on the lawyers to get us what we bought if Tesla fails to deliver on the FSD dream bought by many!
Too soon for that class action, however I think an EAP CA is loooooong overdue and no $288 doesn't cover it, because
they still have not delivered 1 EAP feature 1.5 years later!

Yea, paltry sum. Class actions are useless because only class counsel gets $$$. We just get scraps. I think, though, that Tesla is very vulnerable on EAP to individual consumer fraud actions in certain states. The issue is, even for me, its not worth the time to go after them. Especially if they actually start rolling it out. In IL I have a 3 year Statute of Limitations and I've been biding my time but if Tesla does deliver it, I'm really not inclined to fight. I'll take the $288 and enjoy my EAP. I'm not happy but I'm also not going to waste my $350/hr on a $5k feature (though I could probably draft the complaint and e-file it in 3-4 hours, I bet Tesla doesn't even fight it, it still isn't worth my time to go to the 2 hearings and prove up).

And as time passes, I probably will turn my attention to FSD but if they actually start on that in August, yes it will be 2 years late, but again, not worth my time over a $3k expense.

This is how corporations, along with mandatory arbitration, still walk over consumers and get away with it. Now SCOTUS says you can't even have class action arbs anymore, so individuals have to split an $800/hr arb fee to get some measure of justice? What a joke.

I think once the Baby Boomers go maybe the nation can figure out a 21st century path instead of being mired in the 20th century garbage.

Back to the regularly scheduled "you're holding it wrong" discussion.

 

[GMan324]

I honestly am having a lot of difficulty parsing what you wrote here into anything that makes sense. I'm sorry, it's probably my stupidity.

If I apply torque as if I were steering the car, that would be sensed. But the point of autopilot is to not steer the car. I am talking about having two hands passively on the wheel. The system does not detect this. I am not making this up, I own a HW2.5 Model S. It does not detect both hands on the wheel passively in anything like a comfortable position, unless you're on a pretty curvy road -- when the wheel turns more than a few degrees you end up applying torque, but this doesn't help on long highway stretches. One hand on the wheel is the only viable option for long straight highways.

I completely disagree. I find that using AP with two hands on the wheel in the 10 and 2 position, I almost never get any warning to hold the wheel. As AP steers is senses the resistance from the weight of the hands. The idea that they cancel each other out is a farce, because it is not calculating the weight balance on each side of the wheel. It is just looking for a little resistance. With one hand on the side of the wheel, I rarely get any warnings. With one hand lightly holding on the bottom of the wheel, I get the warnings from time to time, but this is easily solved by applying a little resistance as it steers.

People complaining about holding the wheel are not using AP as designed. I just completed a 2,000 mile trip using AP almost entirely and this just isn't an issue if you are paying attention to the road and using it as designed. I found that when I got the warnings, I had let my attention to the road lapse and it was a good reminder.

 

[rnortman]

And as time passes, I probably will turn my attention to FSD but if they actually start on that in August, yes it will be 2 years late, but again, not worth my time over a $3k expense.

Is it not possible to make the case that it's more than just $5k + $3k, because the availability of this feature is a critical selling point for the vehicle? I honestly would not have my Model S if EAP was not available. EAP was not worth $5k to me, it was worth $45k (roughly the difference between my Model S and the car I would have bought if the Model S did not have EAP offered.)

 

[rnortman]

I completely disagree. I find that using AP with two hands on the wheel in the 10 and 2 position, I almost never get any warning to hold the wheel. As AP steers is senses the resistance from the weight of the hands. The idea that they cancel each other out is a farce, because it is not calculating the weight balance on each side of the wheel. It is just looking for a little resistance. With one hand on the side of the wheel, I rarely get any warnings. With one hand lightly holding on the bottom of the wheel, I get the warnings from time to time, but this is easily solved by applying a little resistance as it steers.

People complaining about holding the wheel are not using AP as designed.

I'm sorry, but you are either wrong or your Tesla is way better than mine. If I keep my hands at 10 and 2 without actively turning the wheel I get the nags. There are plenty of youtube videos that also show this. Maybe Tesla needs to fix all of our steering wheels?

On the other hand (ahem), when you say "With one hand on the side of the wheel, I rarely get any warnings", this I agree with 100%. This is the entire problem: two hands = nag fail, one hand = you must be totally alert, good to go.

 

[boonedocks]

My last car before buying in to the Tesla family of cars, 3rd now, was a 2009 BMW ActiveHybrid7L I could rest my arm on the door elbow bolster and have two fingers on the wheel and steer that car with less effort than 2018.21.9 requires to satisfy the new nag that I am holding the wheel. Some of you that claim "we are using AP incorrectly" are completely missing the point. It should not require any more force or resistance to the steering of the car than it actually takes to steer the car without AP engaged. This new update on long hauls of straight and gentle turns on the expressway has completely botched that.

 

[Kevin Bohacz]

Does anyone else feel like Regen braking is weaker now with 21.9 than previously? My Regen braking is set to "Standard" but now feels weaker and also no longer goes to -50kW on the power meter but only goes to about -40-45kW (RWD single motor s60).

I got 21.9 a few days ago and the regen definitely feels weaker, especially when at slow speed before a stop.

 

[d21mike]

I honestly am having a lot of difficulty parsing what you wrote here into anything that makes sense. I'm sorry, it's probably my stupidity.

If I apply torque as if I were steering the car, that would be sensed. But the point of autopilot is to not steer the car. I am talking about having two hands passively on the wheel. The system does not detect this. I am not making this up, I own a HW2.5 Model S. It does not detect both hands on the wheel passively in anything like a comfortable position, unless you're on a pretty curvy road -- when the wheel turns more than a few degrees you end up applying torque, but this doesn't help on long highway stretches. One hand on the wheel is the only viable option for long straight highways.

Not the person you replied to but here is my input. There is absolutely no reason you can not use 2 hands on the wheel if that is more comfortable or makes you feel more safe. All the person was saying is that you still have to apply a "tiny" amount of torque (not sure if torque is best word but better then others) in either direction of the wheel. Even on a complete straight highway. I think what some would say it may be easier and just as safe for "them" to only use 1 hand to apply the torque but the torque is exactly the same. I mostly use 1 hand on either 4/5 or 7/8 but sometimes I use both hands on 4 and 7 just because of comfort. But in either of these 3 cases and I have zero nags and I really do not even think about it much. I change hand positions for comfort. BTW... For the most part my hands are in the same position even if not on AP and I am driving myself. I have never use the 10/2 hand position (in normal driving) since taking my driving test at 15 1/2 years old.

 

[MorrisonHiker]

I'm sorry, but you are either wrong or your Tesla is way better than mine. If I keep my hands at 10 and 2 without actively turning the wheel I get the nags. There are plenty of youtube videos that also show this. Maybe Tesla needs to fix all of our steering wheels?

On the other hand (ahem), when you say "With one hand on the side of the wheel, I rarely get any warnings", this I agree with 100%. This is the entire problem: two hands = nag fail, one hand = you must be totally alert, good to go.

I've put about 5000 miles on my S on 2018.12 and 2018.14.2 over the past few months. Typically I will use both hands if there's lots of traffic but when out on the wide-open interstate in northeastern Colorado or western Nebraska, I was able to drive with one hand and rarely received any nags in those 5000 miles.

I installed 2018.21.9 on Monday and have only driven 30 miles with it so far. I didn't use it much the first day but in the 10 or 15 miles that I've tried using AP I have noticed very frequent nags while using both hands. Also it is annoying that pressing the accelerator causes the "Hold steering wheel" message to show up. I hadn't noticed it before but I'm noticing it now and I AM HOLDING THE STEERING WHEEL! It was so annoying this morning that I turned it off after only a few miles.

 

[Zorg]

Back to the regularly scheduled "you're holding it wrong" discussion.

Are we still talking about cars?

 

[d21mike]

I'm sorry, but you are either wrong or your Tesla is way better than mine. If I keep my hands at 10 and 2 without actively turning the wheel I get the nags. There are plenty of youtube videos that also show this. Maybe Tesla needs to fix all of our steering wheels?

On the other hand (ahem), when you say "With one hand on the side of the wheel, I rarely get any warnings", this I agree with 100%. This is the entire problem: two hands = nag fail, one hand = you must be totally alert, good to go.

I just replied to your other post but let me add a bit here.

Of course you have to turn the wheel. That is what we call "resistance" or "torque". I.E. Turning the wheel "against" AS. But the key is that it is very little needed to accomplish this. Using 1 hand with "weight" is simply another way of do it.
"without actively turning"

 

[SucreTease]

I am not getting pain in my arms from using increased pressure to grip the wheel; I am getting pain in my arms from "hovering" them gently on the wheel in case I need to take over control, but not gripping the wheel and steering, compared to normal driving where you grip the wheel with normal pressure and actually steering the vehicle.

Then why not just hold the steering wheel normally--just like "normal driving where you grip the wheel with normal pressure"? There is nothing that requires you have to "hover" them. If you hold the wheel normally, but don't resist the car's attempts to steer, you should be fine.

Now one might ask, what is the point of Autopilot if I have to hold the wheel the same way I normally would? The best answer to that that I have heard on these forums is: "I watch Autopilot, and Autopilot watches me." After all, neither of you is perfect or "incapable of error", in the words of HAL. Use it as a support system. Autosteer relieves you of the burden of maintaining lane position, just as TACC relieves you of the burden of maintaining your speed. Then, when you are looking at that curious thing off the side of the road, or changing the music source, you won't find yourself drifting out of your lane.

 

[d21mike]

Are we still talking about cars?

A couple of people already posted this earlier but I will post again.

Elon tweeted this: I think the information and warning messages have not been clear with how you should hold the wheel to satisfy the nag warning. Sounds like they will try to simply clarify it. Based on this thread. Good luck with that.......

Will be adjusting screen alert to clarify that we mean “slight up or downward force on the wheel”, not really “hold the wheel”

 

[BozieBeMe2]

I just replied to your other post but let me add a bit here.

Of course you have to turn the wheel. That is what we call "resistance" or "torque". I.E. Turning the wheel "against" AS. But the key is that it is very little needed to accomplish this. Using 1 hand with "weight" is simply another way of do it.
"without actively turning"

It is a simple system. It measure the amount of amp load needed to turn the rack. If you are laying a hand on the steering wheel, the systems either sees an assist in that direction or a resistance against that rack movement.
Simple electrical load measurement.
As for me, I keep a hand on the wheel because I have experienced the car making direction decisions that were obviously - Wrong!
The time needed to get a hand on things was rather short and if I have a hand on things, I can feel it when the car decides to act up and I can "Nip it in the Bud".

 

[Jonas_man]

Didnt find yet but here's the release notes for AP1 cars

 

[Tim-in-CA]

Is anyone noticing that the EQ settings go only to 8? I thought that this was fixed a few FWs ago? I have premium audio on a 18 MS75D

 

[MP3Mike]

Is anyone noticing that the EQ settings go only to 8? I thought that this was fixed a few FWs ago? I have premium audio on a 18 MS75D

Do you have a MCU2 car? (Built after March.) If so, the MCU2 cars only go to 8db, and don't have the Dolby audio option. (MCU2 has an "Immersive sound" option instead of Dolby.)

 

[Mmmilen]

I'm not a "special beta participant." Just got the update over the air. I just went out for a drive and couldn't get the highway exit slowdown to work. But I did take a video of the adjacent lane stuff if people are interested:

Adjacent lanes working, but no blind spot detection??? I.e. you see the car in the adjacent lane only when it LEAVES your blind spot and comes in front of the car (in front of the front camera)?!

 

[rnortman]

Adjacent lanes working, but no blind spot detection??? I.e. you see the car in the adjacent lane only when it LEAVES your blind spot and comes in front of the car (in front of the front camera)?!

That's the idea. It shows you cars only once they are slightly in front of you, where they're already in clear view of your carbon-based pan/tilt cameras.

 

[Hood7]

Is anyone noticing that the EQ settings go only to 8? I thought that this was fixed a few FWs ago? I have premium audio on a 18 MS75D

I upgraded to 2018.21.9 from 2018.18, and this update returned my EQ range to +/-12 (I have the UHFS on a early 2018 S (pre-MCU2)). Also seemed to improve the sound a bit, especially with volume from the rear (but the rear volume is still lacking...almost no point in having all those speakers back there).

 

[GlmnAlyAirCar]

I got 21.9 a few days ago and the regen definitely feels weaker, especially when at slow speed before a stop.

Considering regen has been reduced in every update since 2013, I'm surprised there is any regen left at all!