-
Want to remove ads? Register an account and login to see fewer ads, and become a Supporting Member to remove almost all ads.
-
Tesla's Supercharger Team was recently laid off. We discuss what this means for the company on today's TMC Podcast streaming live at 1PM PDT. You can watch on X or on YouTube where you can participate in the live chat.
- Status
Mississippi electric co-ops ask regulators for rehearing on net metering | Utility Dive
This utility arguement is literally word for word the same exact arguement the Anne Marie cuneo, the author of the new Nevada net metering scheme, stated on the PBS show last week as justification for 2.6c/kWh payment to rooftop solar customers.
This just gets crazier by the second. I love how the more and more information comes out, the more and more Nevada regulators are influenced and working in the interest of nv energy. It is so much so, that even nv energy is trying temper their enthusiasm to keep the con acceptable.
Literally, watch the ralston show with Marie cuneo on then read this article... Literally word for word like an actor memorized a script...
This utility arguement is literally word for word the same exact arguement the Anne Marie cuneo, the author of the new Nevada net metering scheme, stated on the PBS show last week as justification for 2.6c/kWh payment to rooftop solar customers.
This just gets crazier by the second. I love how the more and more information comes out, the more and more Nevada regulators are influenced and working in the interest of nv energy. It is so much so, that even nv energy is trying temper their enthusiasm to keep the con acceptable.
Literally, watch the ralston show with Marie cuneo on then read this article... Literally word for word like an actor memorized a script...
NV Energy Announces Net Metering Grandfathering Proposal -- LAS VEGAS, Jan. 25, 2016 /PRNewswire/ --
NV Energy gives into grandfathering. This is a pretty big victory for SolarCity.
This should help with sales and financing elsewhere as expectation of grandfathering is proven to be sound.
Stock price didn't react in a big way though. I'm puzzled. Maybe we will see some action tomorrow in regular trading hours?
NV Energy gives into grandfathering. This is a pretty big victory for SolarCity.
This should help with sales and financing elsewhere as expectation of grandfathering is proven to be sound.
Stock price didn't react in a big way though. I'm puzzled. Maybe we will see some action tomorrow in regular trading hours?
New York City Proposes First-Ever Mandatory Solar Deployment for City Worcester LLP
NYC to make mandatory that 4,000 municipal buildings go rooftop solar. Looks like we should see a big commercial order come into Solarcity from this.
New York state as a whole has just enacted orders for large distributed solar deployment across the state... Just makes what is happening in Nevada look even worse for NV Energy and Sandavol.
Today's price action is more focused on the big California decision on Thursday. If California PUC final decision goes with recommendation, then he combination of FERC Supreme Court decision along with the grandfathering momentum(which implies national grandfathering nationwide secure by prescedent) will have a positive tailwind on stock price.
Clearly, the momentum is shifting(once again) and will really be moving after this week and most likely continue after feb. 8th when Nevada PUC changed course on grandfathering due to NV Energy influence. (However Nevada net metering decision will face massive legal challenges on every front for the remainder of the year, far from over...)
add:
Here's a thought... What happens if Mark Ruffalo wins an Academy Award next month? In front of hundreds of millions of viewers globally, what do you think he might say in an acceptance speech about renewable energy and rooftop solar of the people?? If he wins, it will be very interesting what global headlines he'll make with what he could say...
NYC to make mandatory that 4,000 municipal buildings go rooftop solar. Looks like we should see a big commercial order come into Solarcity from this.
New York state as a whole has just enacted orders for large distributed solar deployment across the state... Just makes what is happening in Nevada look even worse for NV Energy and Sandavol.
Today's price action is more focused on the big California decision on Thursday. If California PUC final decision goes with recommendation, then he combination of FERC Supreme Court decision along with the grandfathering momentum(which implies national grandfathering nationwide secure by prescedent) will have a positive tailwind on stock price.
Clearly, the momentum is shifting(once again) and will really be moving after this week and most likely continue after feb. 8th when Nevada PUC changed course on grandfathering due to NV Energy influence. (However Nevada net metering decision will face massive legal challenges on every front for the remainder of the year, far from over...)
add:
Here's a thought... What happens if Mark Ruffalo wins an Academy Award next month? In front of hundreds of millions of viewers globally, what do you think he might say in an acceptance speech about renewable energy and rooftop solar of the people?? If he wins, it will be very interesting what global headlines he'll make with what he could say...
Last edited:
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
If I understand this correctly, the debate is:
Utilities: "You solar people are getting a free ride on the electricity distribution network if we pay full retail for your excess generation"
Home Solar operators: "Utilities are getting a lot of benefits from our home solar in the form of avoided costs: less transmission waste, less stress on existing transmission infrastructure, less need for increased buildout as demand increases, less regulatory burden on pollution mitigation requirements."
I am fairly new to this debate, but through the links I did find one consulting report prepared for the Mississippi PSC that found Net Metering to be a net economic benefit to the state:
http://www.synapse-energy.com/sites/default/files/Net Metering in Mississippi.pdf
I haven't gotten to read the entire report, but it does show the other side of the story that wasn't reflected in the interview with Ms. Cuneo in Nevada.
yeah, Nevada PUC commissioned an independent NEM study, signed off on by utiltiies, solar, and regulators as the legitimate study of record on net metering in Nevada, stated net metering is a benefit to all rate payers as is... This is the only official study on record for which to evaluate NEM and this current PUC didn't even use it. They plugged in unvetted assumptions that were not apart of the independent report analysis and rather used the NV Energy's point as opposed to the only legal study on NEM to determine the current net metering scheme. And I reiterate, this study was signed off on and accepted by NV Energy and previous PUC commission.
The Nevada PUC actions completely disregarded the only official record on the subject and went with a something completely "off grid."
It's mind boggling thst they thought they could get away with it. NV Energy's action with respect to grandfathering are an attempt to placate and distract from the actual core issue of additional charges and degradation of 1:1 net metering (to below current whole sale rates) that the actual independent study says is a net benefit to all rate payers in Nevada.
Looks to me net metering is framing the debate in a way that is confusing and far from optimal. It's a very crude way to express power production and delivery economically. It's great that battles over this are getting won but I'd love to also see a push into developing a system that has more refined ways to optimize via market mechanisms.
In other news, ENOC is up 70% on the Supreme Court decision.
In other news, ENOC is up 70% on the Supreme Court decision.
jhm
Well-Known Member
I would not say that batteries make net metering moot, it simply increases the number of responses to changes in net metering. Defensively, batteries gives solar customers an option to unfairly low feed-in tariffs. If my utility only pays 2c, then I'm going to retain my energy in batteries. Progressively, batteries open up energy aggregation opportunities to create even more value for solar customer, non-solar ratepayers and the utility. There are triple wins that can be even better than net energy metering. So let's be clear, the gutting of net metering is a loss for both solar and non-solar ratepayers. It is only a wind for the utility that adds costs to all ratepayers.
The societal problem with inducing solar customers to retain power to avoid low feed-in tariffs is the absurdity of charging batteries at a time when energy demand is highest. Thus, when my neighbor most needs my surplus power, I am financially incentivized to hoard this power. This deprives all ratepayers a significant benefit when need is greatest. So NV Energy has effectively gutted the social benefit of distributed solar. So non-solar ratepayers are made to pay even more for power by this bad policy.
The way ahead is to recognize that the value of surplus power to all ratepayers varies through out the day. Now that SCOTUS has upheld FERC Order 745, we need to push for feed-in tariffs and DR mechanisms applying to batteries are in fact tied to real time wholesale prices. That is DR programs are now allowed to apply wholesale prices when they are high to retail customers. Demand response should be inclusive of feed-in tariffs from both solar and batteries. This would properly reward solar and battery owners for delivering power when it is most needed. So would drive down wholesale prices for all ratepayer and utilities. This is the triple win. Specifically the extraordinary of cost of peak power generation will be driven down. Not only is this a savings for all ratepayers and utilities (so long as their business model is not premised on profiting from peak generation), but there is likely a GHG abatement benefit for the planet. Offsetting use of gas and oil peakers with solar and batteries is definitely a win for the environment. So it's a quadruple win. I believe such a system can be superior to NEM if well constructed.
So in the present climate, utilities attack NEM out of fear. They simply want to halt the advance of rooftop solar. This leads to bad policy. When stakeholders are ready to work out solutions that leverage new technologies that create triple and quadruple wins, then we can set aside NEM. This is what NEM 2.0 should be about, but we've got to get past protectionism.
Grandfathering just means that existing customers (who are already committed and in a sense paid) don't change. The stock price reflects the future, not the past.
Without grandfathering, Solar City's business faces much greater risk. Investors will have now more certainty in future, particularly those purchasing Asset Backed Securities meaning that Solar City's bond interest rates can continue to be reasonable, whereas they would need to be far higher if a precedent for no grandfathering were to be set and upheld.
http://www.streetinsider.com/dr/news.php?id=11245624
Solar city closes new loan. If someone finds an article with more details let me know please
Solar city closes new loan. If someone finds an article with more details let me know please
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
They gave up grandfathering so that they could keep their wildly unfair net metering rates which are essentially a tax on solar that will make it far less attractive to potential rooftop solar customers. As has been mentioned a bunch of times, this is a delaying ploy to set solar back a year or so and let NV Energy get their new natural gas plant online while they can still somewhat justify it's existence.
Why on Earth the people of Nevada would want to sink $1B into a new natural gas peaker plant when they could just install nearly a half gigawatt of rooftop solar capacity for the same cost is beyond me. They just don't understand the costs and prices of everything I guess.
Thanks, looks like it's 3.5 percent + libor, seems like a pretty good rate. How does this compare to other corporate debt
This is all asset-backed and short term debt, which is somewhat ok. From what I understand the ABS deals with the longer maturities of underlying cashflows. The ABS pricing went somewhat bad in the recent issue (the yield is a bit higher, the maturity a bit lower), I will look up the details. But this stuff is hard to compare as prospectus are not released to public on these. So the deals can be materially different.
The real issue is with the non-asset-backed corporate debt. AFAIK, SolarCity issued two bonds ever. One is announced in Oct 13 with a maturity date of Nov 18. That has an indicative yield of 14% now. The other is announced in Sep 14 with a maturity date of Nov 19. That has an indicative yield of high 15% now. Note, both of these have convertible options. I believe if you subtract the option value, the yields are even higher.
So my read is that SolarCity is effectively locked out of capital markets for non-asset-backed financing.
If you track the Cash position over past several quarters, company spends about $75mln or so per quarter in addition to asset-backed-debt. They would have to reverse this very quickly one way or other. Reduce costs drastically (even at the expense of lower growth) or borrow even more against assets or sell them outright. They seem to be trying to do everything.
My suspicion is if they show they can sustain the business (and decent growth) at a cash-flow neutral state, the stock will be more positively received.
Stock price substantially lower than $50 is really pricing-in the risk they will not be able to make it. In other words, the $30 stock price is unsustainable. It will either be well over 50 and stay there or it will go to 0 (or taken out private somewhere along the way to save the embarrassment). 2016 H1 is make or break I think...
The other dimension is valuation. I have a very hard time reconciling that with what I posted above.
SCTY has never been an easy stock to understand. But in light of all the recent info (rv resets, growth rate reset) and the price action, it has become a prohibitively complex beast for me.
Curious to see what all comes out in Q4 announcement.
SCTY has never been an easy stock to understand. But in light of all the recent info (rv resets, growth rate reset) and the price action, it has become a prohibitively complex beast for me.
Curious to see what all comes out in Q4 announcement.
In my mind it's clearly a make only with almost zero chance of a break. They're planning on cash flow positive by the end of the year so planning on cash burn at previous rates is not believing in management (which I know you feel has been deceptive at times).
While they may be "locked out" of traditional capital markets they have plenty of assets to back them so it doesn't really make sense to use the traditional markets either.
I'll be excited to see how their earnings call goes. What their sales costs are and what they guide for the year. They have been radio silent about the ITC extension and I'm curious if they are still planning on cash flow positive at the end of the year or if they are transitioning back into hyper growth. I have a feeling it will still shoot for cash flow positive so they can prepare for a capital raise to finance 5 gig factory
.
I think we can all agree that if they were building a stock pile of cash investors would understand the business model a lot better
Missed your second post, valuation is definitely a tricky beast with scty !
While they may be "locked out" of traditional capital markets they have plenty of assets to back them so it doesn't really make sense to use the traditional markets either.
I'll be excited to see how their earnings call goes. What their sales costs are and what they guide for the year. They have been radio silent about the ITC extension and I'm curious if they are still planning on cash flow positive at the end of the year or if they are transitioning back into hyper growth. I have a feeling it will still shoot for cash flow positive so they can prepare for a capital raise to finance 5 gig factory
.I think we can all agree that if they were building a stock pile of cash investors would understand the business model a lot better
Missed your second post, valuation is definitely a tricky beast with scty !
TheTalkingMule
Distributed Energy Enthusiast
Their plan is to grow as fast as is humanly possibly while simultaneously financing the defense of an entire industry under attack nationwide, of course they're going to be on the debt precipice continually. If they could borrow more at a reasonable price to expand faster, I hope they would.
If you have faith in the product this company is peddling, your concerns should pivot off of the survival of the solar industry as a whole. Is anyone really concerned about solar being somehow being mothballed or surpassed as an energy technology?
If you have faith in the product this company is peddling, your concerns should pivot off of the survival of the solar industry as a whole. Is anyone really concerned about solar being somehow being mothballed or surpassed as an energy technology?
I'm curious about something. If the sentiment is about being pro-solar, is there a reason SCTY specifically is chosen over an ETF like TAN? Do participants here believe that it represents a better growth or value play relative to the other players in the PV business? I don't have enough information or research to know, but it's interesting to me.
- Status
Similar threads
