Solid AP Improvements on v10 - Initial Impressions

[ammulder]

I did a road trip to rural VA this past weekend. AP did great on the highways there and back. But I also used it on one of the 55mph country roads, one lane in each direction with a double yellow in the middle and little yellow reflectors embedded in the road along the yellow lines. Around one of the curves (to the right), the car actually drifted far enough to the left of the lane that it was running over the reflectors (you could feel the thump-thump-thump as it went over them). That, to me, is WAY too far to the left of the lane and a real head-on collision risk. It's made me nervous before by drifting farther to the left than I would during a right curve, but that was the first time I've ever had it actually go so far that the tires were on the center line.

 

[FMinMI]

I too am seeing it do more slowing down on not-very-sharp curves yet it still comes in hot on an exit ramp in FSD/NoA and waits too long to slow down. I am perplexed as to why - maybe it doesn't know ramp speed limit? I know my car cannot read the speed limit signs yet but it somehow knows that a sharp curve is coming up and jams on the brakes (can hear it) along with full regen prior to hitting the curve.

On the other hand, one unmentioned point about V10 is that on HW2.0 vehicles (at least my MS), lane assist finally works if FSD is off and you are above 40MPH. Tried it a few times slowly bumping up to the center yellow line and it steers back. However, when trying to do the same on the right edge with a white line, I only got a notice saying to take control, and after a couple of times testing it, the alarm went away but still didn't steer me back in the road. Does it only work for yellow lines/crossing into on coming traffic? Will be on a 3 lane highway tomorrow and will try from the center lane to see what happens with FSD off.

 

[Mahi-Mahi]

I too am seeing it do more slowing down on not-very-sharp curves yet it still comes in hot on an exit ramp in FSD/NoA and waits too long to slow down. I am perplexed as to why - maybe it doesn't know ramp speed limit? I know my car cannot read the speed limit signs yet but it somehow knows that a sharp curve is coming up and jams on the brakes (can hear it) along with full regen prior to hitting the curve.

On the other hand, one unmentioned point about V10 is that on HW2.0 vehicles (at least my MS), lane assist finally works if FSD is off and you are above 40MPH. Tried it a few times slowly bumping up to the center yellow line and it steers back. However, when trying to do the same on the right edge with a white line, I only got a notice saying to take control, and after a couple of times testing it, the alarm went away but still didn't steer me back in the road. Does it only work for yellow lines/crossing into on coming traffic? Will be on a 3 lane highway tomorrow and will try from the center lane to see what happens with FSD off.

Yes, white knuckled AP approach on the 280/92 interchange where 50mph is sane, 60mph is fast, and the 70mph it was going approached screeching tire mode. Yet a gentle curve forces dramatic braking. Now before I get all negative, this is WAY better than our 2017 Q7 adaptive cruise control and nonsensical lane departure tech. So eons ahead, but not quite there yet and some regressions as well. Still, will take current AP all day long over my sleepy self driving home unassisted at 8pm.

 

[SandiaView]

I think V10 AP is also a disaster. My wife noticed immediately as a passenger and is very sensitive. It’s a jerky mess. It takes off like a bat outta hell now when starting after a stop. I miss V9 AP to be quite honest.

 

[bijan]

I think V10 AP is also a disaster. My wife noticed immediately as a passenger and is very sensitive. It’s a jerky mess. It takes off like a bat outta hell now when starting after a stop. I miss V9 AP to be quite honest.

Does putting the car in chill mode fix that? I remember hearing people putting in chill mode who thought the old AP was too aggressive. Don't know if it was wishful thinking though.

 

[CharleyBC]

The car was on NOA Saturday on US 50, and it decided to pass the car in front to get back up to speed. As it was doing the lane change (maybe a third to a half of the way over), it saw a car coming up very fast from behind in the new lane. It smoothly bailed, and went back into the original lane.

In similar situations pre-V10, it has made panicky aborts that frighten my passengers, and probably other drivers nearby. This time my wife just gently glanced up from what she was reading, and didn't even ask her usual, "was that you or the car?"

Not enough to be statistically significant, but this felt much improved.

 

[chillaban]

The car was on NOA Saturday on US 50, and it decided to pass the car in front to get back up to speed. As it was doing the lane change (maybe a third to a half of the way over), it saw a car coming up very fast from behind in the new lane. It smoothly bailed, and went back into the original lane.

In similar situations pre-V10, it has made panicky aborts that frighten my passengers, and probably other drivers nearby. This time my wife just gently glanced up from what she was reading, and didn't even ask her usual, "was that you or the car?"

Not enough to be statistically significant, but this felt much improved.

I’ve also noticed that the aborts are more smooth and less sudden in general but I still think the abort logic is not quite right — most humans have a point of no return for executing these kinds of maneuvers — by the time AP decides to abort it’s already forced the other car to slow down and react. The additional hesitation creates a second order layer of uncertainty as the other driver is afraid to pass you normally due to your erratic behavior.

sure if there’s a chance of collision, abort right away as aggressively as needed. But for “oops there’s a faster car overtaking from behind” I wish it would just be quicker and more assertive once it decides to do it.

 

[CharleyBC]

I’ve also noticed that the aborts are more smooth and less sudden in general but I still think the abort logic is not quite right — most humans have a point of no return for executing these kinds of maneuvers — by the time AP decides to abort it’s already forced the other car to slow down and react. The additional hesitation creates a second order layer of uncertainty as the other driver is afraid to pass you normally due to your erratic behavior.

sure if there’s a chance of collision, abort right away as aggressively as needed. But for “oops there’s a faster car overtaking from behind” I wish it would just be quicker and more assertive once it decides to do it.

Yeah, I agree. I would probably have completed the lane change in the scenario I described. But given that it did abort, it did so better.

 

[afadeev]

Couple negatives changes: I'm getting more AP steering nags than I used to and along with that when coming up a small hill where the car cannot see what's beyond, I now get a sudden red warning telling me to take control of steering when 1) I already have my hand on steering and 2) it didn't used to do that at the exact same spot at any time since I bought the car at the end of March of this year.

1. Getting lost while cresting small hills is one of AP's major PITAs for me. I've also noticed semi-consistent "red hands" when approaching those hills now. Doesn't really solve the problem, just adds to the annoyance (I always actively drive over hills now anyway).
2. Frequency of nags, and time gaps between repeated nags, seams to have been shortened. Not good.
3. I've been on the receiving end of way more frequent phantom braking occurrences.
4. Car still tracks way too far towards the left-hand side of the lane. Not good when driving on a rural road without dividers, downright scare when driving in the left lane on a highway with concrete dividers.

On the plus side:

1. The behavior during Y-split intersections now seams to be consistently biased towards bearing right. Which is what I want during my daily commute. But my sample size is too small to be conclusive about this.
2. Maybe a little less aggressive accelerating to close the gap to a car ahead of you. At least the frequencies when it accelerates than immediately brakes a few seconds later seams to have been reduced.

 

[ecarfan]

The car was on NOA Saturday on US 50, and it decided to pass the car in front to get back up to speed. As it was doing the lane change (maybe a third to a half of the way over), it saw a car coming up very fast from behind in the new lane. It smoothly bailed, and went back into the original lane.

In similar situations pre-V10, it has made panicky aborts that frighten my passengers, and probably other drivers nearby. This time my wife just gently glanced up from what she was reading, and didn't even ask her usual, "was that you or the car?"

Not enough to be statistically significant, but this felt much improved.

I agree. Had the same experience multiple times during my recent trip from California to Vancouver Canada. It’s really amazing the way that V10 has the ability to analyze whether or not a car well behind you in the lane that you have just signaled to Auto Lane Change into is approaching so quickly that it will be an obstacle. When on NOA, several times after signaling for a lane change the car moved partway and then moved back because of a car coming up fast on my left.

It’s very impressive to think that is being done with image analysis only. No LIDAR required. Since Auto Lane Change came out I’ve used it probably hundreds of times and so far it has not done anything unsafe that I could detect. I always look first, like I have my entire driving life, but multiple times the car has done a better job than I did of analyzing the traffic behind me.

 

[FMinMI]

1. Getting lost while cresting small hills is one of AP's major PITAs for me. I've also noticed semi-consistent "red hands" when approaching those hills now. Doesn't really solve the problem, just adds to the annoyance (I always actively drive over hills now anyway).
2. Frequency of nags, and time gaps between repeated nags, seams to have been shortened. Not good.
3. I've been on the receiving end of way more frequent phantom braking occurrences.
4. Car still tracks way too far towards the left-hand side of the lane. Not good when driving on a rural road without dividers, downright scare when driving in the left lane on a highway with concrete dividers.

On the plus side:

1. The behavior during Y-split intersections now seams to be consistently biased towards bearing right. Which is what I want during my daily commute. But my sample size is too small to be conclusive about this.
2. Maybe a little less aggressive accelerating to close the gap to a car ahead of you. At least the frequencies when it accelerates than immediately brakes a few seconds later seams to have been reduced.

What do you mean by 'red hands'?

As for CON 2, I can't say I see more but then I always have my hand at the 7-8 o'clock position so it constantly pulls the wheel. Have you timed it?

As for CON 4, I don't see that at all. In fact I would say its more to the right. Maybe there is a camera alignment issue in both our cars...

Regarding POS 1, not for me - it always falters when I am on a single lane coming into the Y that then changes to having 2 lanes after the Y. It steers abruptly right, then left, then right again, then finally swerves to grab the left-most lane once past the Y junction, and sometimes it even kicks FSD out (or maybe its because I don't notice my hand preventing it from being weird). With either V9 or V10, it never picked the right-most lane, which is what I would always (manually) do if both were open.

And finally for POS 2, I think it is worse with much more speed up/slow down trying to keep a perfect, identical distance... I don't like that.

You know, after reading all these posts, I can't help but feel there is so much difference that each of our cars have no consistency at all or should it be :-( ?

 

[fajitamondays]

I think V10 AP is also a disaster. My wife noticed immediately as a passenger and is very sensitive. It’s a jerky mess. It takes off like a bat outta hell now when starting after a stop. I miss V9 AP to be quite honest.

A lot of people were complaining that the car was not assertive enough in this scenario. It sounds like they got their grievance addressed.
If I had to guess, it was likely from those people who complain that 1 car following distance is too generous, and lets other cars "cut them off"

 

[pdx_m3s]

A lot of people were complaining that the car was not assertive enough in this scenario. It sounds like they got their grievance addressed.
If I had to guess, it was likely from those people who complain that 1 car following distance is too generous, and lets other cars "cut them off"

No. V9 was so bad when it came to stop and go traffic that you’d get honked at frequently for being so delayed and slow off the line. While there’s still a delay, at least it keeps pace with the car in front.

Could you imagine a string of Teslas taking off at a light on v9 AP? You’d get about 4 through before it turned red.

 

[fajitamondays]

Chalk it up to regional driving differences and personalities. I've never had issues with TACC or AP in stop and go traffic while I was on V9, and people honking at me. If it was a bit laggy, I just gave it some encouragement with the pedal. Honestly, less effort than dealing with the so called "AP nag".

 

[afadeev]

What do you mean by 'red hands'?

3rd level of "get your hands on the steering wheel" alert in the Driving Status portion of the display.
Level 1 - Blue blinking background in the top 1/4 of the Driving Status window.
Level 2 - "Hold steering wheel" message with BLUE steering wheel iconography
Level 3 - "Hold steering wheel" message with RED hands on grey steering wheel iconography

As for CON 2, I can't say I see more but then I always have my hand at the 7-8 o'clock position so it constantly pulls the wheel. Have you timed it?

Not really possible on my roads.
AP/Autosteer insists on making randomly jerky course corrections, and never properly late apexes a turn.
Consequently, if I neglect to remove my hands from the steering wheel, they will interfere with its jerky AP steering inputs, which will disable the AP/Autosteer.

Regarding POS 1, not for me - it always falters when I am on a single lane coming into the Y that then changes to having 2 lanes after the Y. It steers abruptly right, then left, then right again, then finally swerves to grab the left-most lane once past the Y junction, and sometimes it even kicks FSD out (or maybe its because I don't notice my hand preventing it from being weird). With either V9 or V10, it never picked the right-most lane, which is what I would always (manually) do if both were open.

I've used to always take over from AP when cresting small hills, and approaching Y-intersections.
1->2 lane is still a crap shoot, but true Y-intersections with roads splitting and a concrete divider or a pedestrian island appearing in the middle, have been the cryptonite for AP:

• 1/3 of the time it would bear left
• 1/3 of the time it would bear right
• 1/3 of the time it would aim straight for the concrete divider/pedestrian island.

You know, after reading all these posts, I can't help but feel there is so much difference that each of our cars have no consistency at all or should it be :-( ?

Yep, definitely makes it THAT much harder to have faith in AP.
I've learned when to expect it to fail, and it's almost painful to have to re-check and re-learn after each major release.
I actually have to remind myself to not automatically intervene in places where my engagement is part of my human auto-pilot (pun intended).

a

 

[Kevy Baby]

1. I've experienced much better lane splits, regardless of whether the split is to the left or right
2. I'm one who enables Chill mode when using AP - minimizes the jerkiness
3. Still too much phantom braking for no apparent reason - HARD braking
4. They still have not fixed right curves. I regularly take the HOV lane NB 405 to NB 55 in Orange County, CA and it scares the eff out of me. But I have to test from time-to-time to see if there has been improvement.

But I love being able to set AP in Brea and drive 20 miles to Irvine and almost never have to disable AP.

 

[dewittbo]

My experience with TACC in city driving is that it doesn't reduce its speed gradually (like a human would) when approaching stopped cars at an intersection ahead, but flies onward at full speed, then applies the brakes aggressively to come to a stop, and then stops farther away from the vehicle ahead than a human driver normally would (I think the rule of thumb is: the bottom of the rear tires of the car in front are at the level with the top of the dashboard from the driver's point of view); it does start up more quickly from a dead stop following the car ahead than did v.9, but does so too abruptly--again not easing into the acceleration like a human would, but accelerating abruptly; but then it does pick up speed more quickly than before, which is good.

It still does not react in a human-driver way to cars that are turning to the right from in front of it, braking so aggressively (even after the other car is no longer in the street) that it becomes dangerous to anyone following me. Same thing goes for cars crossing in front of it, or even turning left; the car practically stops, then accelerates very slowly--endangering and irritating anyone who is following behind. I love the idea of using TACC in the city, but it definitely is not yet ready for prime-time.

 

[tvad]

A few AP things I’ve noticed since having v10 for a couple days (non-EAP, non-FSD HW2.5 SR+ owner here):

- When at a stop and the car in front of me starts moving, my Tesla now accelerates MUCH faster than it used to and no longer creates a large gap between us. I used to “help” AP along by slightly hitting the accelerator, but this is no longer necessary.

- Related to the above, the “rubber banding effect” in stop/go traffic is almost non existent (albeit at the expense of slightly more head movement, which I am completely OK with). This is also helped by the fact that the car now reacts to the car in front of it with less response time (e.g. if the car in front of me speeds up, the Tesla responds quicker and begins accelerating, reducing rubber-banding).

1) What follow distance setting do you use?
2) Is the car set to Chill Mode or to Standard?

 

[mtndrew1]

I have some new behavior on v10.

Kind of hard to see in this pic but as the on-ramp to the 110 south splits from 3rd street the car now renders the split (left lines are faint in the photo but often display prominently).

The car can now handle the entire on-ramp from start to finish while rendering traffic accurately. This is all new.

 

[Hans L]

One improvement I really appreciate is that it now recognizes a large truck or semi and moves off-center to the side away from the truck. My wife was always complaining about how close the Tesla would get to Semi's in AP mode. The new adjust is very nice and subtle. Overall, impressed with the improvements but wish the nags time duration would increase.