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Solving a problem: Locking public J-1772 to your Model S during charging
- Thread starter Babylonfive
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- Accessories Marketplace Parts
I wasn't aware of that - sounds like a lock possibly protects the loss of the converter as well. Thanks Tezco - you beat me to the experiment.
That was my experience with 4.2 as well, the adapter unlocks for a few seconds. I would expect it to remain locked to the car.
You would want it to remain with the car, yes.
But, if it unlocks for a few seconds coincident with someone unplugging you, then if they then pulled out the converter too,... it could optionally remain with them?
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@jerry33 The device is made from reasonably strong plastic, but an attempt to manhandle the entire rig would break it first before any other component (including the car), and because of the design it wouldn't come into contact with the car - any more so than some idiot deciding to remove a direct-connect Tesla charger which is also locked into the car. Also, do you have the same concern over a tiny key lock placed through the blocking hole in certain charging handles?
Actually, I see the likelihood of removal by casual power thieves and 'griefers' as being opportunistic and unplanned, and 1000 times more likely than a someone who would do anything to pry out the charger. I've heard many reports here of users at airports, libraries, etc. experiencing an unplug which would have been foiled by a lock.
It might be patentable; it's a narrow enough invention. However, now that you've revealed it publicly, you have one year in the US to file a patent, and you won't be able to get one in any other country.
(No, I'm not a patent attorney, so this can't be considered legal advice. However I have some patents, review others, and have lots of friends who are patent attorneys, so I'm pretty sure I'm right.)
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The charge port only unlocks if the car is unlocked. So if someone else disconnects, it stays locked in.
Puyallup Bill
Member
I'm 4.2 and decided to see what my car did. Unfortunately, my test was not conclusive.
Near my home is a medical facility with several ChargePoint stations, and being Sunday, the parking areas were empty. I began a charge using the RFID card, and then walked about 25 meters and laid the key fob on the ground. I returned to the car and without stopping the charge using the RFID card, tried to remove the J1772 nozzle and adapter as a unit - could not.
Removed the nozzle from the adapter. Charge stopped*. Tried to remove the adapter - could not.
Reinserted the J1772 into the adapter and easily removed the combined unit.
I thought about doing the test again, but it had started to rain and the wind was bitting cold. Maybe another day.
*(Yes, I got the "finger wagging" message from ChargePoint chiding me for not using the card to stop the charge.)
I have found that the adapter stays attached to the car as long as the doors are locked. It sounds like you discovered a bug though by reconnecting the nozzle. Clearly Tesla's intent is that you can't remove the adapter when the car is locked. Hopefully they will fix this ASAP.
mknox
Well-Known Member
I need to verify this by trying again, but using the J1772 adapter at work, I was surprised to find that the whole assembly (J1772 with Tesla adapter attached) came out of the car (car was locked) when I squeezed the J1772's handle and pulled. I was expecting just the J1772 to detach. I'm not connected today because the charger is in use with one of our fleet Volts but will try again to be sure.
Lets try to get to the bottom of this:
Hooks up j1772 charger to Model_S: 240 volts 30 amp. Locks car using Key- tail light flashes once. Takes key into house and places in a tin can over 30 feet away from car. Go back to car- press on door handles which remain locked. Try to pull out adapter from ChargePort. Cannot pull out- it is locked. Stops charging @CS-40. Try to pull out adapter. Locked. Try to pull out j1772 plug causes charger to start! Go into house to throw breaker OFF. Try to pull out adapter: locked. Pull out plug then reinsert: adapter still locked, whether port lights are red or pale bluish white. No way could I steal the adapter. Throw breaker ON: charging resumes, port: green, but cannot steal the adapter.
Am I going to pull the plug while delivering 30 amps? I don't think so. Pilot contact *should* disconnect before big contacts but not going to attempt this. Contactors opening might be slower than my pulling plug resulting in a big zap. If this is where the exploit might occur then so be it.
4.2 installed.
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Hooks up j1772 charger to Model_S: 240 volts 30 amp. Locks car using Key- tail light flashes once. Takes key into house and places in a tin can over 30 feet away from car. Go back to car- press on door handles which remain locked. Try to pull out adapter from ChargePort. Cannot pull out- it is locked. Stops charging @CS-40. Try to pull out adapter. Locked. Try to pull out j1772 plug causes charger to start! Go into house to throw breaker OFF. Try to pull out adapter: locked. Pull out plug then reinsert: adapter still locked, whether port lights are red or pale bluish white. No way could I steal the adapter. Throw breaker ON: charging resumes, port: green, but cannot steal the adapter.
Am I going to pull the plug while delivering 30 amps? I don't think so. Pilot contact *should* disconnect before big contacts but not going to attempt this. Contactors opening might be slower than my pulling plug resulting in a big zap. If this is where the exploit might occur then so be it.
4.2 installed.
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Puyallup Bill
Member
When the J1772 nozzle release button is pressed, charging stops - no current flow, no zap.
> When the J1772 nozzle release button is pressed, charging stops - no current flow, no zap. [Puyallup Bill]
Sure, switch connected to button turns off pilot before catch is released, makes sense. The 2 pilot pins are about 1/4 inch recessed compared to the big pins, which is all I knew. With the redundancy it is virtually impossible to zap a j1772. Nice to know!
So, armed with this new knowledge, I key lock car, hermetically seal key in mayonnaise jar which is then placed on Funk & Wagnall's porch, and djank j1772 'nozzle' from my charging Model_S. Adapter remains locked to car. I cannot remove plug without pushing button which releases it from adapter. Conclusion: adapter cannot be stolen from my Model_S, at this time, in this position, etc. The scientific method at work. :biggrin:
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Sure, switch connected to button turns off pilot before catch is released, makes sense. The 2 pilot pins are about 1/4 inch recessed compared to the big pins, which is all I knew. With the redundancy it is virtually impossible to zap a j1772. Nice to know!
So, armed with this new knowledge, I key lock car, hermetically seal key in mayonnaise jar which is then placed on Funk & Wagnall's porch, and djank j1772 'nozzle' from my charging Model_S. Adapter remains locked to car. I cannot remove plug without pushing button which releases it from adapter. Conclusion: adapter cannot be stolen from my Model_S, at this time, in this position, etc. The scientific method at work. :biggrin:
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Thank to everyone for looking at the locking situation.
My experience is with no fob that the locked car does not release the adapter, even when charging handle (or rest of system) causes an end to charging.
Update to those who care: I'm ending my engineering process and about to start selling these devices. Since they are likely not to sell in very large volumes, they will be made in a low-volume process, and thus will be priced accordingly. I'm completing the manual and other data over the next few weeks.
As soon as everything is turned on, I'll post the external link once for reference. Anyone with direct interest feel free to direct message me.
david
My experience is with no fob that the locked car does not release the adapter, even when charging handle (or rest of system) causes an end to charging.
Update to those who care: I'm ending my engineering process and about to start selling these devices. Since they are likely not to sell in very large volumes, they will be made in a low-volume process, and thus will be priced accordingly. I'm completing the manual and other data over the next few weeks.
As soon as everything is turned on, I'll post the external link once for reference. Anyone with direct interest feel free to direct message me.
david
mknox
Well-Known Member
Nope. I was wrong. The adapter stays firmly attached to the car when I removed the J1772. I even had the fob in my pocket (with auto present turned off) and had to unlock the car to get the adapter out. Not sure what happened the first time, but I may have unlocked the car first without realizing it.
I looked at my car while using the Blink charging station at work, and it looked to me like there was not going to be any room for your ring adaptor lock thingy. It has to be at least a tiny bit bigger than the plug's latch, and I didn't see any spare room there. But of course eyeballs are no substitute for measurement...
Cool. I was going to test when I get my car. But that might be a while. Thanks to all for verifying. I was just going off of what I had read from previous owners. Maybe it changed somewhere in FW versions. Which was a good thing if it did.
GGR,
There is room - it touches only the J-1772 converter body, the charging handle hook, and the Tesla connector body face (but the latter only when stressed and there's little to no additional wear associated with that compressive force). I'll offer a money-back guarantee of satisfaction to back that.
The requirement for this (IMO) was a no-worry, no compromise addition to the converter, that 'just-worked' - I think I've achieved that. The CapturePro adapter does fit snugly in the space between the car connector face and the adapter, then exits that space at the proper angle to capture the charger hook - again, without touching the car body in any location.
David
p.s. - I'm really past the engineering stage here, so even though I appreciate the additional engineering 'eye' everyone is providing, I am proud to say it does work. I'm almost ready to release it.
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