Sound deadening work begins next week: will report before and after data

[artsci]

Rick: The most dramatic difference is your 'minimum' numbers: Were these on the smoothest of roads that you travel? Your assessment is that the most notable difference is 25-50mph? over 55mph?

Thanks Al

Al,

I think that the biggest difference is in that speed range and on smoother roads. At higher speeds wind noise is the predominate issue and not much can be done about that. Tire noise is certainly diminished but still present, especially on rough roads.

One thing I've really obeserved is that the few annoying creaks and rattles the car makes now are more noticeable and easier to locate. But hopefully that will also make it easer for my SC to address them next time I take the car in.

Rick

 

[mknox]

One thing I've really obeserved is that the few annoying creaks and rattles the car makes now are more noticeable and easier to locate. But hopefully that will also make it easer for my SC to address them next time I take the car in.

I've often wondered/worried that teardowns like you would have to do here can actually cause creaks and rattles. Is there any risk of that?

 

[artsci]

I've often wondered/worried that teardowns like you would have to do here can actually cause creaks and rattles. Is there any risk of that?

As far as I can determine there's nothing new -- but the few that were there before are more noticeable. In fact Bert added a few things to existing parts to reduce the chance of rattles.

 

[thimel]

artsci,

I got a new P85D a couple of months ago. It has more tire noise than I would like so I have been researching solutions and came upon your TMC threads. Your results of reducing dBA by 20 dB look very good. I've been in touch with Don and a Bay Area installer to see about doing my car. They both say 20 dB is too good to be true. They say I should not expect more than 3 to 6 dB improvement. They point to your minimum dB reading of 6 as an indication that the iPhone app you used must be crap. Frankly, I thing 3 dB would be barely noticeable and not worth the money.

I see you are very happy with the results. A few questions:

1. Can you point me where suprkar described his work and did he measure the improvement?
2. Do you think their could be a problem in your before and after measurement of average dBA?
3. While you can't repeat a before and after measurement, would you consider comparing your car to some other untreated Tesla with a different app and/ or a digital recorder that does not have automatic gain control? I've purchased the SPLnFFT app which was tested along with many others by a government standards organization and found to be one of the most accurate. I'd happily give you the four dollar purchase price if you were to do the test with it. It also gives a frequency spectrum which could be interesting.

I have the first before and after results. I'm not an expert and I'm not sure what all of this actually means but there are some sizable reductions in the readings.

I took a number of readings on other routes before the sound deadening work was done so I'll do some additional testing to see what I get. To be fair the readings can change based on weather and a variety of other unmanageable variables, but the readings confirm what I'm hearing -- a much quieter car.

	Before	After
Date	14-Aug	9-Sep
Time	6:23PM	6:21 PM
Route	Office to home	Office to home
SOUND LEVEL METER
Average level dBA	67	46.5
Instant level aBA	47.4	46.3
Max Level dBA	97.7	95.4
Min level dBA	34.1	6.1
NOISE DOSIMETER
Projected DOSE	6.99%	1.33%
Projected TWA Level dBA	70.8	58.9
DOSE	0.3979%	0.0797%
TWA Level dBA	50.1	38.5
Elapsed Time	0:27:19	0:28:39

 

[artsci]

artsci,

I got a new P85D a couple of months ago. It has more tire noise than I would like so I have been researching solutions and came upon your TMC threads. Your results of reducing dBA by 20 dB look very good. I've been in touch with Don and a Bay Area installer to see about doing my car. They both say 20 dB is too good to be true. They say I should not expect more than 3 to 6 dB improvement. They point to your minimum dB reading of 6 as an indication that the iPhone app you used must be crap. Frankly, I thing 3 dB would be barely noticeable and not worth the money.

I see you are very happy with the results. A few questions:

1. Can you point me where suprkar described his work and did he measure the improvement?
2. Do you think their could be a problem in your before and after measurement of average dBA?
3. While you can't repeat a before and after measurement, would you consider comparing your car to some other untreated Tesla with a different app and/ or a digital recorder that does not have automatic gain control? I've purchased the SPLnFFT app which was tested along with many others by a government standards organization and found to be one of the most accurate. I'd happily give you the four dollar purchase price if you were to do the test with it. It also gives a frequency spectrum which could be interesting.

I'd be delighted to compare my car to an untreated comparable model with the same tires and wheels. I've often wondered myself about the reliability of the iPhone sound meter readings. My ear tells me there's a big improvement by that's hardly a good measure. Maybe we can do this at TMC Connect. I've been using the SPLnFFT app which I chose for the reasons you cited.

As for SUPKAR I can't speak for him but I know he did all of the work himself. I'm not sure if he posted much about what he did but you can do a search to see.

As for tire noise the first place to start is to install quieter tires. The Michelin Pilot Sport 21s are a very noisy tire compared to the Pirelli 20s. I'm switching back to the latter next week for that very reason. There's a handling compromise but I consider that an acceptable compromise. I'm also going to line the Pirelli's with foam before they're reinstalled to see what difference that makes.

Back to your question -- was it worth it? For me yes -- I think the difference is very noticeable. The fact that Tesla improved the sound deadening on the D models is an indication that there was ample room for improvementt. I would do it again if I faced the choice.

 

[ZRB1]

FWIW I had the sound deadening materials professionally installed in my P85D in February. It was very expensive and frankly I can't appreciate much improvement, especially at 70+ mph speeds on freeways on concrete as opposed to blacktop surfaces. Seems to me the noise is mostly from the Michelin tires on 21" wheels. I'm hoping the Recticel thing will be available to me before long, until then putting up with the annoyance of having to turn up the music volume when I get out there.

Thanks for all the good info on this thread.

 

[thimel]

FWIW I had the sound deadening materials professionally installed in my P85D in February. It was very expensive and frankly I can't appreciate much improvement, especially at 70+ mph speeds on freeways on concrete as opposed to blacktop surfaces. Seems to me the noise is mostly from the Michelin tires on 21" wheels. I'm hoping the Recticel thing will be available to me before long, until then putting up with the annoyance of having to turn up the music volume when I get out there.

Thanks for all the good info on this thread.

Could you please tell us what type of materials and what coverage your professionals installed? Any before and after dB measurements?

Can anyone else who has had soundproofing done please inform us as to what was done and the results? Perhaps this should be a new thread?

 

[ZRB1]

The materials kit was from Don Sambrook in Maryland, installed as he recommended. We were surprised to find much thicker and more extensive factory sound deadening than shown in photos previously posted here, making our installation more difficult in some places such as in the doors. He was very nice and spoke several times to the people here. Installation was done by Custom Car Stereo, which is very experienced and accustomed to working on various exotic cars, including Teslas. If you want more details the contact person there is Jonathan Cozad, 713-981-8455 and I'm sure he would be willing to answer questions. They have a web site: Custom Car Stereo | Houston, Texas #1 Mobile Electronics Company since 1976! I do not have any dB data

 

[scottm]

To those people with circa 2014 cars (mine is August build).. so these are non-D cars...

What do you think is the "biggest bang for the buck" area for doing sound deadening first... and maybe second... on the order of doing things.

Supposing I want a "day long job" in the garage of my own, removing panels. Where to start?

To my untrained ear... I suspect the rear of the car, trunk area contributes a lot of rumble and gives access to back half of rear wheel wells..

Or does somebody know that investment in another area is a better noticeable result?

 

[invisik]

To those people with circa 2014 cars (mine is August build).. so these are non-D cars...

What do you think is the "biggest bang for the buck" area for doing sound deadening first... and maybe second... on the order of doing things.

Supposing I want a "day long job" in the garage of my own, removing panels. Where to start?

To my untrained ear... I suspect the rear of the car, trunk area contributes a lot of rumble and gives access to back half of rear wheel wells..

Or does somebody know that investment in another area is a better noticeable result?

I did pretty full Dynamat on the doors (inner and outer door panels), around the trunk wheelwells, and played with some Dynapad as well. I could find no appreciable difference before vs after Dynamat. The car is solid and does not vibrate that much. I do not recommend doing this. But I will say for my first install of Dynamat it was pretty easy.

I also recently had service on the driver's door handle, and did not hear any complaint from the service center. When I put the Dynamat on, I did cut around the black plastic access piece and screw holes to try to make that easier to get into.

I'm certainly open to any suggestions on better placement or products to use. I'm really trying to reduce tire noise (snow tires are really really loud) as well as window noise from the sunroof area (haven't done anything on this yet).

Thanks. -m

 

[artsci]

To those people with circa 2014 cars (mine is August build).. so these are non-D cars...

What do you think is the "biggest bang for the buck" area for doing sound deadening first... and maybe second... on the order of doing things.

Supposing I want a "day long job" in the garage of my own, removing panels. Where to start?

To my untrained ear... I suspect the rear of the car, trunk area contributes a lot of rumble and gives access to back half of rear wheel wells..

Or does somebody know that investment in another area is a better noticeable result?

You'e right -- that's the place to start with the added benefit of it being the easiest.

 

[ORB]

Hi Artsci,

I'll be getting new tires next month, and began to wonder about possible sound deadening benefits of carbon fiber rims (expensive). Haven't seen much info on this in the forums, is this something that you have considered for the future?

Anyone else in this forum tried these?

Looking forward to talking with you again in Reno if you will be attending this year.

Oliver

 

[JPP]

Side note: New Model S with 19's come with a new Goodyear Eagle Touring tire with internal sound deadening foam. I have no personal or specific knowledge as to how these work and compare to the old Eagle RS-A or the more recent Michelin Primacy. These seem to be a specific tire that TM worked with Goodyear to implement--if you go to Tire Rack and look them up, there are 2 listed, and 1 has TM specific designation.

Rick--look forward to seeing you at TMC Connect--are you driving out?

 

[artsci]

Side note: New Model S with 19's come with a new Goodyear Eagle Touring tire with internal sound deadening foam. I have no personal or specific knowledge as to how these work and compare to the old Eagle RS-A or the more recent Michelin Primacy. These seem to be a specific tire that TM worked with Goodyear to implement--if you go to Tire Rack and look them up, there are 2 listed, and 1 has TM specific designation.

Rick--look forward to seeing you at TMC Connect--are you driving out?

JPP and ORB, probably won't make it to Reno -- have family even conflicts. I'm not happy about that as it will break my perfect attendance record I've ordered the ESE Carbon Fiber rims. Should have them on the S in early August so I'll report back on them.

You'e right -- that's the place to start with the added benefit of it being the easiest.

The trunk is the place to start -- wheel wells, fenders, etc.

 

[ORB]

Artsci,

Sorry to learn about your travel conflict, but looking forward to your experience with the new rims, thanks for letting us know.

Oliver

 

[Scannerman]

On Monday I'm dropping my Model S off at Don Sambrook's shop in Manchester, Maryland for him to begin work on sound deadening the car. Don is one of the top experts in the field and I'm very fortunate that his shop is only 20 miles or so from my home and that he could even take me as a client (he works himself on only 2 or 3 cars a year). Don's website is a source of incredible depth on sound deadening techniques and materials but this will be the first Model S he's evaluated and done. He teams up with Bert Miller on all of the installation work. Bert's expertise is doing all the the tear downs of the interior that are necessary to do the job the right way.

Between now and then I'll be taking and saving a series of sound measures to record the sound levels on my drive to and from work every day. The route has a great mixture of road types with different surfaces — two lane country road with some speed bumps, busier two lane road, four lane, Interstate, city streets, and parking garage. So I’ll have some very good before and after measurements for comparison of results.

When the work is finished at the end of next week I'll take new measurements along the same course and post the comparative results.

Yes, I know the car is pretty quiet as it is, but this was inspired by my friend, SUPRKAR, who sound deadened his entire Model S over a period of 3 months. He told me the results were astounding -- it was like having a different car. He did all of the work himself. Although I intended to do this myself as well, when I looked carefully at what would be required I concluded that didn't have have the time or adequate work space to do it all. So I was fortunate to find Don, whose rates for both labor and parts are very reasonable.

I'll report back when I deliver the car to Don next Monday.

According to the sales representative at Ford, where I leased my 2015 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium, it has a noise cancelling interior. I did observe that it was notably more quiet than the less expensive Focus. Is it possible that Ford is superior to Tesla in this regard (cabin noise)? That would seem so unlikely.

Scannerman

 

[jerry33]

According to the sales representative at Ford, where I leased my 2015 Ford Fusion Energi Titanium, it has a noise cancelling interior. I did observe that it was notably more quiet than the less expensive Focus. Is it possible that Ford is superior to Tesla in this regard (cabin noise)? That would seem so unlikely.

Scannerman

The cabin noise in the Tesla--or at least my Tesla--is almost all tire noise. The level depends on the type of tires and the type of pavement. On some types of pavements it's totally silent, on others not so much. For some combinations of tires and pavements even cars with a reputation for being very quiet are just about unbearably noisy. One reason the Tesla appears noisy is that there is no engine noise to cancel out part of the tire noise.

 

[CatB]

+1
I did the sound-deadening that artsci recommended and it helped because our cars are only a month apart (mine delivered Feb '13, his March '13). Tesla has been upgrading the sound deadening (quietly of course) ever since then, so when a friend with a much newer car ordered all the materials, he didn't even need them all because his car already had so much of it. I can also tell a slight difference with newer cars. And your tires make a big difference. I just went back to my original wheels/tires from after-market wheels and run-flats, and again, I can tell the difference.
Try driving your Ford at 35, 45, 55 without radio and notice what you hear. Then try the Tesla - and let us know what you think.

 

[artsci]

+1
I did the sound-deadening that artsci recommended and it helped because our cars are only a month apart (mine delivered Feb '13, his March '13). Tesla has been upgrading the sound deadening (quietly of course) ever since then, so when a friend with a much newer car ordered all the materials, he didn't even need them all because his car already had so much of it. I can also tell a slight difference with newer cars. And your tires make a big difference. I just went back to my original wheels/tires from after-market wheels and run-flats, and again, I can tell the difference.
Try driving your Ford at 35, 45, 55 without radio and notice what you hear. Then try the Tesla - and let us know what you think.

Glad it worked for you CatB. Now that I've lived with it for a couple of years the greatest determinants of noise are the tires and road surface. On smooth roads I can listen to music at 80 mph and hear everything without cranking up the volume. On a road with a rough surface it's a very different story.

 

[JetKit]

Almost. I agree but energy is energy, ICE or EV.
I suggest one to measure what you are calling too noise so to have a better baseline.
If both cars yields 80db of internal cabin noise at the same speed/pavement/frequencies, the ICE car will have much better insulation/noise management than the EV, as it is wasting a lot of energy producing noise with that thing causing explosions in the engine bay.

My P85+ was just horrible. Over 80dBs @75mph.
We (By we I mean Tesla) resolved it by updating all sound deadening materials and replaced the Michelins with ContiSilents. They also replaced some glass panels in the front doors, rubber seals all around, and many other parts that I did not ID yet. I got a 6 page invoice of parts!