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Sports car enthusiast opinions wanted
- Thread starter Filteq
- Start date
Msjulie
Active Member
Sometimes yes - I was (am?) still kinda a manual transmission snob and it's fun; ; agree I wish it had gears or some way to keep up that rapidness at higher speeds
Not as much as I thought, silent raw acceleration is pretty cool
I wish I had a Porsche 356 speedster
visceral if not fast and I've always had a convertible of one kind or another till now. And I have a natural inclination towards smaller nimble cars so that says a lot about the 3That I can't afford the Tesla Roadster!
The 3 is kinda heavy in comparison to anything I've ever owned before but that's less about the motive power and more about the car itself.
All my life i was driving manual transmission (5 speed, 6 speed) only , these are some of my cars previously
1997 BMW M3, 2001 SAAB Viggen, 2002 BMW 330I, 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, 2005 Subaru WRX STI, 2007 BMW 335i, 2008 BMW M3, 2013 BMW 550i (6 speed).
last year, i traded 550I for Tesla Model 3 (AWD), initially we were going to trade in my wife,s SUV, but kept SUV. Coming back to the point Tesla feels amazing, it does everything better than expected and better than most of the cars above. But somehow i feel like this car has no soul, even though it's perfect in every way and Autopilot is superb. I will definitely get a 6 speed( if anyone is still making) soon or new BMW M3.
To your questions
Yes
Yes
Yes/No
like i mentioned, no soul (but this is the future)
1997 BMW M3, 2001 SAAB Viggen, 2002 BMW 330I, 2005 Mitsubishi Lancer Evo, 2005 Subaru WRX STI, 2007 BMW 335i, 2008 BMW M3, 2013 BMW 550i (6 speed).
last year, i traded 550I for Tesla Model 3 (AWD), initially we were going to trade in my wife,s SUV, but kept SUV. Coming back to the point Tesla feels amazing, it does everything better than expected and better than most of the cars above. But somehow i feel like this car has no soul, even though it's perfect in every way and Autopilot is superb. I will definitely get a 6 speed( if anyone is still making) soon or new BMW M3.
To your questions
Yes
Yes
Yes/No
like i mentioned, no soul (but this is the future)
I posted this in another thread. The part about Track Mode is already dated as Tesla provided it for P3d- already.
My dream car as a kid was a Lotus, and in 2008 I was able to achieve that dream when I purchased a used 2006 Lotus Elise. The Elise is a great car, a ton of fun to drive, affordable for a Lotus (I paid $36k), and very affordable to maintain due to its Toyota motor. At the time I bought the Elise, I did look at the Tesla Roadster. I avoided it though for a few reasons. First, although it had some Elise DNA, it took all of the things that were great about the Elise and in my opinion diluted them. It did not have the light weight that defines the Lotus marque, in fact it was a beast weight-wise. It took the Elise’s fantastic styling and made it angular, modernish, and ugly. And worst of all, the battery-rear design made the handling of the Roadster far inferior to the Elise. It was a great start for Tesla but it did not really come close to my definition of a fun car. Also it was much more money than I wanted to spend. I bought the Elise but decided that when Tesla made a car I wanted, I would buy one. Right around that time we put in a large solar array so that was a factor as well — we could re-fuel for free if we had an EV.
Between now and then I have watched Tesla closely. The model S did not appeal to me, mainly due to its size but also it just was not as fun to drive as the Elise. I drove a P85D the first week it was at the Tesla showroom, and while the power was something I had never experienced, it still felt big and heavy. I loved it as a technological achievement but did not feel compelled to buy one. When the Model 3 was announced, it looked like a possible match to my wants. I knew there would eventually be a P variant, so I did not line up to purchase on day one. Instead I waited for the P announcement and then placed my order as soon as ordering opened. I went for the P-, mainly because I had learned from watching the S forums that larger wheels were not a benefit, and I wanted the best range possible. I expected that I would upgrade the brakes at some point. When I purchased my P the details of the P+ were not really fully known, specifically the improved brakes and of course the much later announced Track Mode. I’m not going to say much about the +/- issue or the further twists that are going on now, but I will say that it is unfortunate that it has served to balkanize the P community. I had some doubt about my purchase when Track Mode was announced, but Elon’s tweet about making Track Mode available to all seemed to address that. I should mention, I have never tracked my Lotus, but I have autocrossed it several times. The jump to tracking is too much for me — both the cost and the risk to the vehicle. Auto-x allows for fun driving and a chance to find the absolute cornering limits of your car, and I recommend it to everyone. Here in San Diego we have an auto-x Novice School that is cheap and will get you going quickly.
My P3D- was the first Model 3 I drove. The local Tesla store offered to let me drive a P before delivery, but I wanted to wait and be surprised. I know for some that will sound crazy, the opposite of how buying a car should be, but for me it worked. The first thing I had to try with the new car was an all-out acceleration. As expected, it was very intense. The power is like no other car I have driven, and I have driven recent model Lamborghinis and Jaguars (F Type) as well as my Lotus and a number of other sports cars. Speaking of the Lotus, the power comparison is pretty crazy — the Tesla is much quicker than the Lotus. A standard Elise like mine has a 0-60 time of around 5 seconds. It feels very fast, due to the twin-cam design and the low to the ground driving position, but in fact it is slower than most mid-range sports cars. The P3D does not have that limitation. I don’t want to spend a lot of time talking about the massive power though, as many have covered that and really there is not much opportunity to use it on the road. I am a fairly conservative driver on public roads. I rarely drive over about 6/10 and I insist on staying totally in control. I like to have plenty of room for the unknown, and excessive speeding does not allow for that. I will just say that power is not a problem with this car.
The real beauty of the P3D, and I suspect this is common to all Model 3 variants, is just how great it is at road handling. It corners fantastically well. I don’t like the overused expression “on rails”, but the Model 3 really does track very precisely through corners. It does have a little more body roll than the Elise — and that is what I wanted to learn more about at the auto-x — but in general it is very flat and feels graceful, precise, and highly-engineered through turns. Like the Elise, it conveys a feeling of speed and control through turns even when it is not going that fast. To me that is one of the trademarks of a fun car — a feeling of speed even when driving at normal speeds. After years of driving an Elise it is unusual for me to be impressed by the handling of another model of car, but the 3 really is that good. The instant torque adds to the cornering, in that if you want to push the exit a little bit, you can do so very easily. The on-tap power and the perfect balance of the car make this feel completely natural. A turn in the mountains, taken just at the speed limit, feels totally rewarding — smooth and efficient, vectored as though the car knows right where you want it to go. These are things the Elise shares with the Model 3, but what is amazing to me is that the Elise is purpose-built — the only thing it has going for it is that it is fun to drive, while the Model 3 is also just a great all-around vehicle.
A few other minor things I like about the Model 3. The steering wheel is just right! The Elise has what I consider to be a perfect steering wheel — a leather-wrapped Momo that is 12” in diameter and fairly thin. The Model 3 is just over 13.5” and a little thicker, but it feels great in the hand. I like to think that some elements of the old Elise have influenced Tesla’s design through the Roadster to the 3, and maybe the steering wheel is one of them. It’s a hugely important element of a driver’s car and Tesla got it just right. In contrast, I drove another exotic recently that had a very thick, ugly steering wheel, covered with buttons and paddles and even a display. It was horrible and disqualified that car completely for me (as did the price). And while we are on the topic of steering, one concern I had with the Model 3 was the steering feel. The Elise has a basic rack-and-pinion, unassisted steering and I love it, so the nearly drive-by-wire design of the Tesla had me worried. It turns out it is really good. Super precise, and just overall a very good feeling of connection to the car and the road — critical for a fun-to-drive car. I use the highest setting for steering (Sport), mainly because I am used to a heavier feel. I do not miss the Lotus steering at all, despite it having what may be the most positively reviewed steering of any car (see Top Gear).
Also, the concept of regenerative braking is new to me, and I will never buy a car again without it. It is so much more natural than braking, so intuitive and functional. I did San Diego’s test piece — Palomar Mountain — using no braking the entire way. I am really looking forward to what the further application of regen might be via Track Mode, and of course I want to see how useful it is in an auto-x setting. For regular, spirited, fun driving though, it is a new essential.
For car guys who have read this far, I want to mention engine sound. The Elise is plenty loud, even with the stock muffler. The motor is just inches from the driver’s ears, and it is not a particularly quiet ride. Hitting the second cam, especially under an overpass, is a delicious moment for sure. I also appreciate the tones of other cars — Maserati and Ferrari in particular both have very sweet notes. All that said, driving without engine noise is a great experience, and for me it is even more engaging for the driver than having a nice engine tone. Being able to hear the wind noise (I drive with the windows open usually), hear the sounds of the surroundings, even hear the sound of the tires going over the road surface — these all serve to pull you further into the driving experience. The engine noise was, for me, a component of the driving experience, but unfortunately it was so loud that it was the only audible component. With it largely gone all these other elements of the audible environment come to the front. It’s a different experience for sure, but for me it was a huge step forward.
Finally I want to mention one more comparison between the Lotus and the Tesla. The Lotus is beautifully simple. There are few gauges, few buttons, almost no knobs. It’s easy to drive and easy to work on. The Tesla — while packed with behind-the-scenes technology — is almost equally simple, and equally beautiful. Drivers — people who love to drive — should not focus on the silliness of autopilot or self-driving, or the size of the touchscreen or the AC vent origami, or even the lack of a button for the glovebox. Instead, focus on the road, the land, the weather, the other drivers around you. The Tesla is perfectly optimized for this.
My dream car as a kid was a Lotus, and in 2008 I was able to achieve that dream when I purchased a used 2006 Lotus Elise. The Elise is a great car, a ton of fun to drive, affordable for a Lotus (I paid $36k), and very affordable to maintain due to its Toyota motor. At the time I bought the Elise, I did look at the Tesla Roadster. I avoided it though for a few reasons. First, although it had some Elise DNA, it took all of the things that were great about the Elise and in my opinion diluted them. It did not have the light weight that defines the Lotus marque, in fact it was a beast weight-wise. It took the Elise’s fantastic styling and made it angular, modernish, and ugly. And worst of all, the battery-rear design made the handling of the Roadster far inferior to the Elise. It was a great start for Tesla but it did not really come close to my definition of a fun car. Also it was much more money than I wanted to spend. I bought the Elise but decided that when Tesla made a car I wanted, I would buy one. Right around that time we put in a large solar array so that was a factor as well — we could re-fuel for free if we had an EV.
Between now and then I have watched Tesla closely. The model S did not appeal to me, mainly due to its size but also it just was not as fun to drive as the Elise. I drove a P85D the first week it was at the Tesla showroom, and while the power was something I had never experienced, it still felt big and heavy. I loved it as a technological achievement but did not feel compelled to buy one. When the Model 3 was announced, it looked like a possible match to my wants. I knew there would eventually be a P variant, so I did not line up to purchase on day one. Instead I waited for the P announcement and then placed my order as soon as ordering opened. I went for the P-, mainly because I had learned from watching the S forums that larger wheels were not a benefit, and I wanted the best range possible. I expected that I would upgrade the brakes at some point. When I purchased my P the details of the P+ were not really fully known, specifically the improved brakes and of course the much later announced Track Mode. I’m not going to say much about the +/- issue or the further twists that are going on now, but I will say that it is unfortunate that it has served to balkanize the P community. I had some doubt about my purchase when Track Mode was announced, but Elon’s tweet about making Track Mode available to all seemed to address that. I should mention, I have never tracked my Lotus, but I have autocrossed it several times. The jump to tracking is too much for me — both the cost and the risk to the vehicle. Auto-x allows for fun driving and a chance to find the absolute cornering limits of your car, and I recommend it to everyone. Here in San Diego we have an auto-x Novice School that is cheap and will get you going quickly.
My P3D- was the first Model 3 I drove. The local Tesla store offered to let me drive a P before delivery, but I wanted to wait and be surprised. I know for some that will sound crazy, the opposite of how buying a car should be, but for me it worked. The first thing I had to try with the new car was an all-out acceleration. As expected, it was very intense. The power is like no other car I have driven, and I have driven recent model Lamborghinis and Jaguars (F Type) as well as my Lotus and a number of other sports cars. Speaking of the Lotus, the power comparison is pretty crazy — the Tesla is much quicker than the Lotus. A standard Elise like mine has a 0-60 time of around 5 seconds. It feels very fast, due to the twin-cam design and the low to the ground driving position, but in fact it is slower than most mid-range sports cars. The P3D does not have that limitation. I don’t want to spend a lot of time talking about the massive power though, as many have covered that and really there is not much opportunity to use it on the road. I am a fairly conservative driver on public roads. I rarely drive over about 6/10 and I insist on staying totally in control. I like to have plenty of room for the unknown, and excessive speeding does not allow for that. I will just say that power is not a problem with this car.
The real beauty of the P3D, and I suspect this is common to all Model 3 variants, is just how great it is at road handling. It corners fantastically well. I don’t like the overused expression “on rails”, but the Model 3 really does track very precisely through corners. It does have a little more body roll than the Elise — and that is what I wanted to learn more about at the auto-x — but in general it is very flat and feels graceful, precise, and highly-engineered through turns. Like the Elise, it conveys a feeling of speed and control through turns even when it is not going that fast. To me that is one of the trademarks of a fun car — a feeling of speed even when driving at normal speeds. After years of driving an Elise it is unusual for me to be impressed by the handling of another model of car, but the 3 really is that good. The instant torque adds to the cornering, in that if you want to push the exit a little bit, you can do so very easily. The on-tap power and the perfect balance of the car make this feel completely natural. A turn in the mountains, taken just at the speed limit, feels totally rewarding — smooth and efficient, vectored as though the car knows right where you want it to go. These are things the Elise shares with the Model 3, but what is amazing to me is that the Elise is purpose-built — the only thing it has going for it is that it is fun to drive, while the Model 3 is also just a great all-around vehicle.
A few other minor things I like about the Model 3. The steering wheel is just right! The Elise has what I consider to be a perfect steering wheel — a leather-wrapped Momo that is 12” in diameter and fairly thin. The Model 3 is just over 13.5” and a little thicker, but it feels great in the hand. I like to think that some elements of the old Elise have influenced Tesla’s design through the Roadster to the 3, and maybe the steering wheel is one of them. It’s a hugely important element of a driver’s car and Tesla got it just right. In contrast, I drove another exotic recently that had a very thick, ugly steering wheel, covered with buttons and paddles and even a display. It was horrible and disqualified that car completely for me (as did the price). And while we are on the topic of steering, one concern I had with the Model 3 was the steering feel. The Elise has a basic rack-and-pinion, unassisted steering and I love it, so the nearly drive-by-wire design of the Tesla had me worried. It turns out it is really good. Super precise, and just overall a very good feeling of connection to the car and the road — critical for a fun-to-drive car. I use the highest setting for steering (Sport), mainly because I am used to a heavier feel. I do not miss the Lotus steering at all, despite it having what may be the most positively reviewed steering of any car (see Top Gear).
Also, the concept of regenerative braking is new to me, and I will never buy a car again without it. It is so much more natural than braking, so intuitive and functional. I did San Diego’s test piece — Palomar Mountain — using no braking the entire way. I am really looking forward to what the further application of regen might be via Track Mode, and of course I want to see how useful it is in an auto-x setting. For regular, spirited, fun driving though, it is a new essential.
For car guys who have read this far, I want to mention engine sound. The Elise is plenty loud, even with the stock muffler. The motor is just inches from the driver’s ears, and it is not a particularly quiet ride. Hitting the second cam, especially under an overpass, is a delicious moment for sure. I also appreciate the tones of other cars — Maserati and Ferrari in particular both have very sweet notes. All that said, driving without engine noise is a great experience, and for me it is even more engaging for the driver than having a nice engine tone. Being able to hear the wind noise (I drive with the windows open usually), hear the sounds of the surroundings, even hear the sound of the tires going over the road surface — these all serve to pull you further into the driving experience. The engine noise was, for me, a component of the driving experience, but unfortunately it was so loud that it was the only audible component. With it largely gone all these other elements of the audible environment come to the front. It’s a different experience for sure, but for me it was a huge step forward.
Finally I want to mention one more comparison between the Lotus and the Tesla. The Lotus is beautifully simple. There are few gauges, few buttons, almost no knobs. It’s easy to drive and easy to work on. The Tesla — while packed with behind-the-scenes technology — is almost equally simple, and equally beautiful. Drivers — people who love to drive — should not focus on the silliness of autopilot or self-driving, or the size of the touchscreen or the AC vent origami, or even the lack of a button for the glovebox. Instead, focus on the road, the land, the weather, the other drivers around you. The Tesla is perfectly optimized for this.
Standing ovation for the review.
Agree with it or not, it’s very detailed with a lot of inputs.
Do you miss having a transmission (manual or paddles)?
Do you miss the sound?
Would you recommend having a weekend car?
What regrets do you have due to your move to electric?
I probably don't rate as much of an enthusiast as some (former fun cars were a heavily modified Trans AM, and 335i) but here I go. I almost ordered an M3 before getting the P3D. I'm very glad I didn't.
I do miss the manual transmission at times, but I think the instant torque makes up for a lot of that.
I don't miss the sound to be honest, I was surprised by that. I ran straight pipes on my TA for a while so I'm not afraid of loud cars. The lack of sound lets you focus on the road more, enjoy the quiet, or your music.
Weekend car is a tough one. I don't feel like I'm missing anything, but I do love cars. If I had the spare cash I wouldn't mind a car that I could beat on at the track all the time(I'd own all of the cars if I had the money), but if I'm out for a weekend joyride I don't see how I'd want anything else in this price range. There are guys with Porsches and GTRs that still drive their 3s on the weekends.
I have no regrets going electric. The only downside is charging on long trips. That said, charging forces you to relax a little. You don't feel like you need to shovel in fast food to "make good time". It takes a new perspective to make your drive part of your trip so you can take the time for a proper lunch and a beer. The way I figure it, if my drive to Denver goes from 9 hours to 10 or 11 ok, I do that twice a year. However, every week I save 5/10/15 minutes by skipping the gas station. That adds up quickly. No more leaving for work and needing to stop for gas even though you are already late.
Do you miss the sound?
Would you recommend having a weekend car?
What regrets do you have due to your move to electric?
I probably don't rate as much of an enthusiast as some (former fun cars were a heavily modified Trans AM, and 335i) but here I go. I almost ordered an M3 before getting the P3D. I'm very glad I didn't.
I do miss the manual transmission at times, but I think the instant torque makes up for a lot of that.
I don't miss the sound to be honest, I was surprised by that. I ran straight pipes on my TA for a while so I'm not afraid of loud cars. The lack of sound lets you focus on the road more, enjoy the quiet, or your music.
Weekend car is a tough one. I don't feel like I'm missing anything, but I do love cars. If I had the spare cash I wouldn't mind a car that I could beat on at the track all the time(I'd own all of the cars if I had the money), but if I'm out for a weekend joyride I don't see how I'd want anything else in this price range. There are guys with Porsches and GTRs that still drive their 3s on the weekends.
I have no regrets going electric. The only downside is charging on long trips. That said, charging forces you to relax a little. You don't feel like you need to shovel in fast food to "make good time". It takes a new perspective to make your drive part of your trip so you can take the time for a proper lunch and a beer. The way I figure it, if my drive to Denver goes from 9 hours to 10 or 11 ok, I do that twice a year. However, every week I save 5/10/15 minutes by skipping the gas station. That adds up quickly. No more leaving for work and needing to stop for gas even though you are already late.
My previous performance car was a TVR Cerbera 4.5 lightweight (with some mods).
This was a very light and powerful car (2300lb approx 440bhp - depending on fuel, mods, weather, day of the week), only sold in UK. Believe only 6 of the lightweight variant were produced, about 450 4.5 engined cars in total I think. (1996-2004) Dwindling number of them left on the road now, which is sad.
Acceleration was on par with the M3 Performance. Not as fast to 60, but significantly quicker to 100 and much higher top speed. Main problem being it VERY traction limited, with no driver assistant aids at all. (No traction, stability, abs, air-bags, cruise control, didn't even have sun-visors...). Better, newer tyres helped significantly, from what was available at launch.
Actually, has quite a few parallel features. It also had buttons for door handles, but also on the outside. Had a very 'progressive' ergonomic layout inside. Lights High Beam, Wipers, Screen Wash and Horn were 4 (unlit) buttons on the steering wheel. Wipers cycled through (Off, Intermittent, Normal, Fast) with each press of the button. So in the dark, you had to remember which button it was, and how many times you need to push it to get from Fast back down to Normal wipe speed (It was 3) etc. So don't complain about the Model 3 auto-wiping controls, it could be ALOT worse.
There was a Key on the dashboard, which you never used. The manual just said "You should not need to use this under normal circumstances", but didn't explain what it did, or why you would ever use it. It actually, turned off ALL the electrics, basically, an isolation switch. If you did turn it off, then you couldn't get out, as the door catches were electric, and the windows wouldn't go down to allow the door to open (like the model 3).
In the event of a flat battery, you can't get into the car, to open the bonnet to get at the battery, as here are no door handles, it's all electric. (and the battery goes flat alot, since you have to turn everything on/off manually). There are some emergency handles in the DOORS sills, in the car, but that doesn't help. SO, the cleaver engineers, added an emergency release in the trunk, which would open the drivers door (BUT not the window, so you still couldn't really get in, without forcing the window past the door opening, but then the door won't shut). GREAT, but then decided they would put a hidden electric trunk opener on the car as well. DOH.
Fit and Finish was also so-so, very limited run, essentially hand-built car. Reliability wasn't it's strongest feature. Mechanics were bullet-proof, but always felt like the electrics were designed by blacksmiths.
One of it's driving highlights was it's lightness and responsiveness, very quick steering, changes directions very quickly, suspension felt very sorted, everything under control, fine placement of the car. Very predictable, in what it was going to do (which was mostly wanting to go sideways), right up to the point it would decide it would rather be going backwards!!!
Also, seating position was very low, and laid back. Getting into it from a normal car, felt like you must be digging a furrow in the road with your seat. Eye level was mostly below all the other car's wing mirrors. And getting in/out was not graceful!
It was fun, and fast, and made you smile, and made you feel special to drive it. BUT, was a difficult Diva to live with on a day to day basis.
Maintenance was similar, TVR didn't really go in to standardizing the production very much, and most are quite heavily modified, so you never really knew exactly what part you needed, until you got the old bit off.
P3D has much of the same speed. Doesn't have the lightness or ultimate performance, BUT is much easier to live with, and MUCH easier performance to use.
The one thing (childish) that made me laugh, that the P3D could never do, is spit flames out of the exhaust, and bang and pop, and set car alarms driving down the road!! BUT that's probably also a good thing.
This was a very light and powerful car (2300lb approx 440bhp - depending on fuel, mods, weather, day of the week), only sold in UK. Believe only 6 of the lightweight variant were produced, about 450 4.5 engined cars in total I think. (1996-2004) Dwindling number of them left on the road now, which is sad.
Acceleration was on par with the M3 Performance. Not as fast to 60, but significantly quicker to 100 and much higher top speed. Main problem being it VERY traction limited, with no driver assistant aids at all. (No traction, stability, abs, air-bags, cruise control, didn't even have sun-visors...). Better, newer tyres helped significantly, from what was available at launch.
Actually, has quite a few parallel features. It also had buttons for door handles, but also on the outside. Had a very 'progressive' ergonomic layout inside. Lights High Beam, Wipers, Screen Wash and Horn were 4 (unlit) buttons on the steering wheel. Wipers cycled through (Off, Intermittent, Normal, Fast) with each press of the button. So in the dark, you had to remember which button it was, and how many times you need to push it to get from Fast back down to Normal wipe speed (It was 3) etc. So don't complain about the Model 3 auto-wiping controls, it could be ALOT worse.
There was a Key on the dashboard, which you never used. The manual just said "You should not need to use this under normal circumstances", but didn't explain what it did, or why you would ever use it. It actually, turned off ALL the electrics, basically, an isolation switch. If you did turn it off, then you couldn't get out, as the door catches were electric, and the windows wouldn't go down to allow the door to open (like the model 3).
In the event of a flat battery, you can't get into the car, to open the bonnet to get at the battery, as here are no door handles, it's all electric. (and the battery goes flat alot, since you have to turn everything on/off manually). There are some emergency handles in the DOORS sills, in the car, but that doesn't help. SO, the cleaver engineers, added an emergency release in the trunk, which would open the drivers door (BUT not the window, so you still couldn't really get in, without forcing the window past the door opening, but then the door won't shut). GREAT, but then decided they would put a hidden electric trunk opener on the car as well. DOH.
Fit and Finish was also so-so, very limited run, essentially hand-built car. Reliability wasn't it's strongest feature. Mechanics were bullet-proof, but always felt like the electrics were designed by blacksmiths.
One of it's driving highlights was it's lightness and responsiveness, very quick steering, changes directions very quickly, suspension felt very sorted, everything under control, fine placement of the car. Very predictable, in what it was going to do (which was mostly wanting to go sideways), right up to the point it would decide it would rather be going backwards!!!
Also, seating position was very low, and laid back. Getting into it from a normal car, felt like you must be digging a furrow in the road with your seat. Eye level was mostly below all the other car's wing mirrors. And getting in/out was not graceful!
It was fun, and fast, and made you smile, and made you feel special to drive it. BUT, was a difficult Diva to live with on a day to day basis.
Maintenance was similar, TVR didn't really go in to standardizing the production very much, and most are quite heavily modified, so you never really knew exactly what part you needed, until you got the old bit off.
P3D has much of the same speed. Doesn't have the lightness or ultimate performance, BUT is much easier to live with, and MUCH easier performance to use.
The one thing (childish) that made me laugh, that the P3D could never do, is spit flames out of the exhaust, and bang and pop, and set car alarms driving down the road!! BUT that's probably also a good thing.
Do you miss having a transmission (manual or paddles)?
Do you miss the sound?
Would you recommend having a weekend car?
What regrets do you have due to your move to electric?
My previous cars: Porsche 924 manual, 944 Turbo manual, 996 Carrera 4 Tiptronic that I manually shifted.
Manual transmissions were a fun skill that I took pride in doing well. But they are just a crutch for engines that have a restricted rev range. Racing long ago abandoned the traditional sports car shifter, and much of the clutch work as well. Paddle shifting gets the job done, but there's nothing particularly challenging about it. Shifting is basically an anachronism, just for the fun of it.
The transmission on Teslas is always in the right gear. They never need to downshift before giving you maximum acceleration. There's no lag as the Tiptronic, which was just an automatic in disguise, downshifts. Like driving a quick normally aspirated car instead of a laggy turbo, only even better.
I love the quiet performance of electric. I can floor it any time without waking the neighborhood, catching angry glances from pedestrians, and possibly attracting the attention of a cop just out of my sight. Once you break the link between noise=power and instead equate power with silence I don't miss the noise. The little cars with the megaphone pipes are really the joke of this party. I grew up with the noise. I appreciate the mechanical sounds. I just like the silence better.
I've never had a weekend car. They were all my daily drivers. I did track days with the Porsche club. I modified suspensions and chipped engines. There's no doubt the Model 3 is a bigger car than I was used to. But it is really fun to drive. And I don't really notice the size. It's a little faster than my C4 was on my favorite corner, perhaps making up for apex speed with quicker acceleration until I reach the speed limit sign. Different, but not inferior. For casual club events the Model 3 seems to be a great fit, with some work on the brakes.
We're all electric now. Model X for road trips, Model 3 for local trips. Zero regrets. They're better than all our previous cars. We don't care about "luxury", so I can't speak to that other than to say it seems to be as much a matter of taste and status than anything else. As far as practical aspects I really love the interiors of both cars. The X is more traditional, the 3 is very modern. If the interiors wear as good as a "luxury" car I'll be very happy. While I'm open to another brand of electric, I wouldn't buy ICE again.
Do you miss the sound?
Would you recommend having a weekend car?
What regrets do you have due to your move to electric?
My previous cars: Porsche 924 manual, 944 Turbo manual, 996 Carrera 4 Tiptronic that I manually shifted.
Manual transmissions were a fun skill that I took pride in doing well. But they are just a crutch for engines that have a restricted rev range. Racing long ago abandoned the traditional sports car shifter, and much of the clutch work as well. Paddle shifting gets the job done, but there's nothing particularly challenging about it. Shifting is basically an anachronism, just for the fun of it.
The transmission on Teslas is always in the right gear. They never need to downshift before giving you maximum acceleration. There's no lag as the Tiptronic, which was just an automatic in disguise, downshifts. Like driving a quick normally aspirated car instead of a laggy turbo, only even better.
I love the quiet performance of electric. I can floor it any time without waking the neighborhood, catching angry glances from pedestrians, and possibly attracting the attention of a cop just out of my sight. Once you break the link between noise=power and instead equate power with silence I don't miss the noise. The little cars with the megaphone pipes are really the joke of this party. I grew up with the noise. I appreciate the mechanical sounds. I just like the silence better.
I've never had a weekend car. They were all my daily drivers. I did track days with the Porsche club. I modified suspensions and chipped engines. There's no doubt the Model 3 is a bigger car than I was used to. But it is really fun to drive. And I don't really notice the size. It's a little faster than my C4 was on my favorite corner, perhaps making up for apex speed with quicker acceleration until I reach the speed limit sign. Different, but not inferior. For casual club events the Model 3 seems to be a great fit, with some work on the brakes.
We're all electric now. Model X for road trips, Model 3 for local trips. Zero regrets. They're better than all our previous cars. We don't care about "luxury", so I can't speak to that other than to say it seems to be as much a matter of taste and status than anything else. As far as practical aspects I really love the interiors of both cars. The X is more traditional, the 3 is very modern. If the interiors wear as good as a "luxury" car I'll be very happy. While I'm open to another brand of electric, I wouldn't buy ICE again.
CarlK
Active Member
Pretty much the similar experience as @animorph had. I was driving a manual 6 Cayman S when I bought my MS. Had them side by side for two year but had driven the Porsche for a total of ~1,000 miles during the two years. I always pick the Tesla whether it's going to work or drive over the mountain highway to the beach. It's just a way more fun car to drive. You can't beat that instant pedal response driving on the curvy mountain road. Everything you've heard about how Porsche drives is true but became irrelevant after the Tesla experience.
As for engine noise and effort to shift those are actually acquired taste and can be easily de-acquired. We were brain washed over the years to think those defficiencies ( engine noise and efforts needed to overcome lack of torque response) as a good thing. If a caveman or space align came to drive a Tesla and then the Porsche his response would definitely be what crap is this.
Yes we are Tesla/EV only family now too and will remain so forever.
As for engine noise and effort to shift those are actually acquired taste and can be easily de-acquired. We were brain washed over the years to think those defficiencies ( engine noise and efforts needed to overcome lack of torque response) as a good thing. If a caveman or space align came to drive a Tesla and then the Porsche his response would definitely be what crap is this.
Yes we are Tesla/EV only family now too and will remain so forever.
UngaBunga1989
Member
So, I am a long, long time car guy starting out as a young man with an Alfa Spider, moving to an Alfa GTV6, onto a BMW 325i (when it was still a "driver's car"), Audi A4 (everything manual up to this point, of course), Audi S4 then a Ferrari 360 followed by a Ferrari 430 (both paddle shifters). Of course once I jumped to the Ferraris as my enthusiast cars, I also had daily drivers (Prius Gen 1 and 2, 2012 Volt and 2016 Volt), so I came to the M3P from both directions. I was always intrigued by Tesla, but felt like the S was just too darn big -- I wanted a driver's car, not a luxury sedan.
Now, to your questions...
I do not miss the manual or paddle transmissions at all. Instant torque and linear acceleration without shifts is just something that never gets old. Frankly, the old way of doing things now seems antiquated.
I would be lying if I said that I never missed the sound of winding up the 430...BUT, honestly those longing moments are getting fewer and farther between. It is super-nice to NOT always announce one's presence 4 blocks away!
IMHO the M3P is the perfect car in that it quenches the enthusiast thirst AND is a perfect Daily Driver. No, I very happily only have my M3P and what a pleasure it is not to have to keep two cars!!
Zero regrets about moving to electric...I did it all the way back in late 2011 with the first generation Volt. That was a compromise, BUT I really wanted to support the move to EV's. The 2016 Volt was a HUGE step forward but still in no way anything beyond a daily commuting car. The M3P is the best car I have ever owned (yes, including the two Ferraris).
SammichLover
Banned
CarlK
Active Member
Definitely not true. The best thing of a Tesla is not 0-60 but 50-80. Try do a lane change in traffic from the slow lane to HOV lane with cars coming up fast at you just once you will not want to drive anything else ever again.
Nothing else. Even more than that is no one drives an ICE at 5000 rmp all the time. By the time the ICE got into the gear and rev'd up rpm the Tesla is long gone.
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maglianera
Member
I posted this in another thread, but I hope this provides some input:
My weekend car is an AMG GT, V8 Bi-Turbo. This is a 'track focused' machine that I have had tuned (ECU/Downpipes) to a bit under 650hp. This cars main limiting factor is traction, as even a light tap of the gas and the rear tires spin. I have gotten myself in a bit of trouble with this car on more than one occasion, and I don't dare turn off the traction control 100%... The car is a front engine and weighs around 3,600 pounds wet.
I'm sure I'd get flak for this in the Mercedes forums, but having owned my P3D (and used it daily) for the past few months, I can say that in pretty much every aspect I feel the Tesla is faster. The one exception would be braking where the Carbon Ceramics on my GT are way, way better in feel, modulation and power. The one thing where the Model 3 fails is the brakes, and I will for certain be upgrading them in the future.
IMHO I feel that the noise/exhaust, low ride height and harsh ride that supercars provide are all sensations that 'seem' faster or more thrilling, entertaining, etc. - but in real life, you can't outperform the acceleration and torque of a battery/motor. Using Dragy, the best real-world 0-60 I can hit in my GT with a rollout is 3.7 seconds. Using the same device on my Model 3 I consistently hit 3.3 and have seen 3.201 as a personal best on 93% SOC and warm tires.
I will always want a gas-powered 'supercar'in my garage, but only for the void that an electric vehicle simply can't fill - but I won't kid myself, in the not-so-distant future ALL benchmarks will be set by electric powered supercars, Tesla or otherwise.
That all being said, what do I miss the most when driving the electric? The V8 run-outs (clicks, pops from extra gas in the manifold and exhaust that ignites after letting off the gas and on downshifts) Not much else!
My weekend car is an AMG GT, V8 Bi-Turbo. This is a 'track focused' machine that I have had tuned (ECU/Downpipes) to a bit under 650hp. This cars main limiting factor is traction, as even a light tap of the gas and the rear tires spin. I have gotten myself in a bit of trouble with this car on more than one occasion, and I don't dare turn off the traction control 100%... The car is a front engine and weighs around 3,600 pounds wet.
I'm sure I'd get flak for this in the Mercedes forums, but having owned my P3D (and used it daily) for the past few months, I can say that in pretty much every aspect I feel the Tesla is faster. The one exception would be braking where the Carbon Ceramics on my GT are way, way better in feel, modulation and power. The one thing where the Model 3 fails is the brakes, and I will for certain be upgrading them in the future.
IMHO I feel that the noise/exhaust, low ride height and harsh ride that supercars provide are all sensations that 'seem' faster or more thrilling, entertaining, etc. - but in real life, you can't outperform the acceleration and torque of a battery/motor. Using Dragy, the best real-world 0-60 I can hit in my GT with a rollout is 3.7 seconds. Using the same device on my Model 3 I consistently hit 3.3 and have seen 3.201 as a personal best on 93% SOC and warm tires.
I will always want a gas-powered 'supercar'in my garage, but only for the void that an electric vehicle simply can't fill - but I won't kid myself, in the not-so-distant future ALL benchmarks will be set by electric powered supercars, Tesla or otherwise.
That all being said, what do I miss the most when driving the electric? The V8 run-outs (clicks, pops from extra gas in the manifold and exhaust that ignites after letting off the gas and on downshifts) Not much else!
Ludalicious
Active Member
Dont have the Performance model 3 but have the performance model S.
If you are used to other car enthusiasts taking photos of your ride... or videos from a cruise turning up after on the forms... expect none of that.
Your car will get absolutely no more attention than a regular model regardless if you spend an extra 10k on rims. It's just how it is. Unless Tesla magically makes the performance version distinctly different. No one cares....
Signing off the Average looking sedan owner.
P.S. I absolutely miss my fire breathing Mopar every day. Except when I had to fill up at the gas station. I dont miss those days... or being in the shop every few weeks
If you are used to other car enthusiasts taking photos of your ride... or videos from a cruise turning up after on the forms... expect none of that.
Your car will get absolutely no more attention than a regular model regardless if you spend an extra 10k on rims. It's just how it is. Unless Tesla magically makes the performance version distinctly different. No one cares....
Signing off the Average looking sedan owner.
P.S. I absolutely miss my fire breathing Mopar every day. Except when I had to fill up at the gas station. I dont miss those days... or being in the shop every few weeks
SammichLover
Banned
Well only in relative terms, because they'll be all over it anyway. The kids up into their twenties, especially, but even the olds have actual interest among hardcore gasoline-huffers. I mean they don't know if my LR D is an SR, LEMR, or whatever, lots don't understand or know the hierarchy at all much less the subtle clues to suss them out. But it still makes waves. At least out here still in Not California.
Ludalicious
Active Member
Theres a very limited amount of mods you can do to them. Tint the windows... add some rims... All lipstick and makeup mods. Ain't no one checking out a Model S at car shows... they are on every corner... Maybe in a small town, but in the city.. . I see 10-30 teslas a day. They all look the same. Not like a 30s for coupe... or a vintage Cuda... To each of their own though.... I even run 10s at the track... no one cares... the POS K car that runs 10s gets more attention than my 200k Tesla... CDN that is
SammichLover
Banned
Not true anymore. Legit suspension gear upgrades, of different varieties, from at least 2 vendors. The UP front and rear spoilers claim to be legit performance enhancement (drag reduction AND downforce), and MPP likely has aero parts in the works too since they have done a body scan. Brakes & wheels obviously, of various real performance impact. MPP has the Party Box for RWD.
<edit>Forgot UP's replacement sway bars. Oh, and Cameron's had a custom wing or something made IIRC. So there is indeed stuff well beyond "lipstick".
I came from a 427 corvette, 500+ HP/TQ 6M, beautiful sound!
wasn't really excited about P3D+, till the drive home & 3.2 0-60!
the vette was a hammer, this is a scalpel!
Definitely not true. 30-60 is the sweet spot for a performance model 3. At 30mph it's instant pull unlike at 0mph, while still having some time to enjoy the pull before you hit 60 where the car admittedly doesn't compete.
SammichLover
Banned
Others have posted the 30-50, 50-70, and 70-90 times. The Model 3 AWD, without even P, is stupid fast. 30-70 for example is about 3.2s. The gap between the D and the P begins the narrowing above about 45mph, and by 90mph it is not that big, but that's comparison relative to the rather spritely D.
Dig around here, IIRC there's a drag race between I believe a D and an S3 where the S3 keeps up until 60ish and then the D pulls away.
