You could also compare it to the two mechanical release buttons that fold down the Model S 60/40 seats. The buttons are large, and extremely easy to press. (I usually notice the levers and pulleys of rental cars are a pain compared to the nice large buttons of the Model S). Even with the minimalist styling of the Model S, the interior is cavernous and has tons of useful/practical space. A car designed to be cheap and easy to manufacture like the Model 3 won't have electronic seat releases, like the X, and instead will go with the traditional, easy-to-use, mechanical ones, like in the S.
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You could also compare it to the two mechanical release buttons that fold down the Model S 60/40 seats. The buttons are large, and extremely easy to press. (I usually notice the levers and pulleys of rental cars are a pain compared to the nice large buttons of the Model S). Even with the minimalist styling of the Model S, the interior is cavernous and has tons of useful/practical space. A car designed to be cheap and easy to manufacture like the Model 3 won't have electronic seat releases, like the X, and instead will go with the traditional, easy-to-use, mechanical ones, like in the S.
10 cup holders are only useful for belly growing drinks. It is purely a fast food lifestyle kind of thing and useless. I absolutely love Tesla's minimalist design. Put that coke down.
As we often get to ask on the Internet, is what you wrote true?
Tesla has pre-sold 400,000 Model 3's, and is selling more Model S and X's then their systems can deliver to their customers. Now you want to tell us that the map pockets and drink holders being all better, is going to allow them to sell more cars? How many more could they sell at the moment do you think?
It is fun to complain, I enjoy it too. But, get your timing right. If you wrote, in 1 year they need to have cup holders and the like, well maybe. If you wrote in 5 years they need world class blah, I'm sure you would be right. But for today, you are wrong IMHO. Feel free to put your money where your mouth is, and buy a different car, that you think is better. I'll do the same. Then we can compare notes on what we chose. lol
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
A general purpose cup holder does not necessarily have to hold cokes and sodas. I use mine for nalgene bottles filled with pure water.
He could just buy the new center console (Tesla — Model S Integrated Center Console)
I have 5 cup holders now, 3 in front (I removed one for more storage space) and 2 in back. How many more than that do you really need?
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
(1) A reservation is not "pre-sold". All Tesla has done is taken a deposit, which can be refunded at any time prior to a customer confirming their order. 400k reservations is impressive, but that doesn't mean all of them will translate into actual sales.
(2) "Sell at the moment" isn't the issue. Right now, Teslas, and EVs more broadly, are still in the early adopter phase. Early adopters are willing to put up with compromises in order to have the latest and greatest (early iPhones being a good example).
(3) Better for Tesla to design in from the start what they will ultimately need, rather than hack in a solution later. The original rear cupholder solution for the Model S was stupid (new console is admittedly much better). There should have been storage pockets in the doors to begin with. And yeah, I drive a Honda Civic, which has better storage for the rear passengers than Model S.
RogerHScott
Active Member
Whereas others are willing to "put up with" fru-fru gadget-smeared interiors. Late adopters are often willing to continue to live with compromises.
If you could afford it, you would be in a Model S today. Living with no rear cup holders, and no Apple Blah, and loving it. haha
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
What can I say I'm cheap. I would drive a Honda Fit but its too buzzy on the highway.
SageBrush
REJECT Fascism
I mostly agree with you, but it seems fair to point out part (most?) of the reason why the large manufacturers focused on trivial interior accoutrement was because they had very little to none to offer in the way of under-the-hood engineering improvements. So cup-holders multiplied, seats got plushier and the covering over the plastic became the great differentiator.
The one real technology improvement area in cars was in safety, but Tesla is leading the pack here.
So convenience certainly matters, but don't get duped by the sales pitch of the laggards.
anticitizen13.7
Not posting at TMC after 9/17/2018
I don't think that is entirely fair. Today's Honda Civic with a 1.5 Liter turbo-4 has acceleration performance roughly equivalent to an Accord V6 of 10 years ago, while consuming much less fuel. That's just one example. Internal combustion engines across the board have improved greatly over the past 25 years.
What the automotive manufacturing establishment hasn't offered is a complete paradigm shift away from fossil fuels. Basically they improved a lot on one track, but that track happens to lead to a bad outcome. Eventually, the oil runs out, or climate change from carbon dioxide emissions makes Earth a lot less hospitable for human civilization.
Elon once said that he wanted to make a car that people bought because it is great, and that it just happens to be electric. Interior quality and functionality are part of what makes a great car great. To get the mass of people to switch from oil to electric, Tesla has to make a car that is better than what the other manufacturers offer. In the long run, they've got to match and exceed on the interior stuff.
flankspeed8
Member
Well looks like they started rolling off the line today:
Pamela Fletcher: Chevrolet "Bolts Rolling Off The Assembly Line Today"
I parsed that as saying "pre-retail production validation cars" are rolling off the factory line now but the start of final retail production cars starts by the end of the year (widely reported as next month in October).
She said:
Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak didn’t replace his Tesla with a Chevy Bolt after all – he got another Tesla instead
I am really looking forward to see how the Bolt cheerleaders will spin this one...
do we get a picture with the Bolt in the dustbin , I wonder ?
I am really looking forward to see how the Bolt cheerleaders will spin this one...
do we get a picture with the Bolt in the dustbin , I wonder ?
I'd be more interested in hearing from the folk who insisted Woz is a shill and must have been bribed when he mentioned a non-Tesla EV brand.
Let's hear how publically calling him a whore can be spun into a good thing.
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No one that posted that stuff will be big enough to apologize. Will just pretend they were Woz fans the entire time.
"Calling him a whore was in a loving way!" *wink*
Shawn Snider
Member
I hear all batteries take a hit in cold weather except plutonium 238 cells which I believe are restricted by treaty now.
So how much range did your Bolt lose compared to your P90D?
Sidebar - Chevy has been apparently been testing 40 autonomous vehicles in California and Arizona since June, and now received gov't approval to do street testing in Michigan.
I'm not sure how compliance cars figure into autonomy. Affordable autonomy is not a clever way to increase your ZEV credits.
I'm not sure how compliance cars figure into autonomy. Affordable autonomy is not a clever way to increase your ZEV credits.
Bangor Bob
Member
Unlikely. Energy required to move a car is increased substantially in cold weather - Wh/mi goes way up. The amount of energy capable of being supplied by the battery holds relatively constant. At least, that's the way it's been in every other lithium-ion electric car on the planet so far.
That said, using only resistance heating and not having a heat pump certainly doesn't help range (and people have been beating them up about it in various forums), but GM isn't exactly unique in making that choice...
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