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whitex
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, why do you think GM needs a dedicated battery factory to be able to produce the cars? Also, are you saying that until Gigafactory Tesla had no volume and therefore no impact?
RogerHScott
Active Member
Can we agree that there's disagreement about what's desirable in an auto interior and not everyone has the same notion of what's
necessary?
RogerHScott
Active Member
3Victoria
Active Member
I want EVs to succeed. A colleague has one of the new Leafs ... It's quite well done, funky but in a cute way. The 360 video looks like a useful feature. Range is ok for daily commute, at least here. The Bolt will likely be similar (if one can actually buy one here). They are familiar small cars, for the unassuming, good second cars for the day to day activities. I think rather over-priced, but we do need these to help replace ICE.
I am pretty sure Tesla doesn't even want to compete with these, but rather supply mid to high range with excellent cutting edge features. Even with sustained excellent growth, Tesla can't replace the huge numbers of ICE. But it can push others to help.
I am pretty sure Tesla doesn't even want to compete with these, but rather supply mid to high range with excellent cutting edge features. Even with sustained excellent growth, Tesla can't replace the huge numbers of ICE. But it can push others to help.
somnambule
Member
This is my first response in this thread, and I agree some of the comments were a bit ad hominem but I fail to see how his social works or being an overall great guy, which he very well may be, makes him above reproach. There are certainly valid reasons to question his comments that are pertinent to this thread. For example, he complains about not having a place to put sunglasses in his Model S. I have no trouble finding plenty of places to put my sunglasses. And I'd rather have a frunk than a sunglass pocket if practicality is my top concern.
As you yourself pointed out, Woz seems a bit attention-starved at times. I don't blame him for that, he probably feels like the forgotten founder of Apple. And this strikes me as yet another attempt to be a trend-setter, which he isn't.
whitex
Well-Known Member
Why are people offended by Woz here? 
Different people value different things. Some people value cupholders or things like the roof "oh *sugar*" handles. My father in law cannot get in and out of my MS easily (even with suspension on very high). It took me long enough to teach him not to grab onto the window glass, but not having the roof handle is a complete and total deal breaker for him, he just won't buy a car without it because it is a pain (literally for his back) to get in and out of a car without them - I don't blame him. In the end, competition is awesome, as it allows the customers to vote with their money, and if people value cup holders enough to buy a Bolt over Model 3, that's great - it will help Tesla develop a better car. Maybe it will also stop Tesla from coming up with cool looking but impractical features such as the MX gull-wing doors - they take forever to open and close as compared to powered van doors on our Sienna, and the Sienna doors open and close reliable every time while MX doors require a retry more often than you'd think. I won't buy an MX because I value reliable and fast opening doors, just like a value an actual door handle on the front door rather than a button and having to wait for the door to self-present. Those are not the only reasons, but even by themselves a deal-breaker for me. If Totota comes up with an electric Sienna with 200+ mile range, I would buy it over Model X, even without supercharging or Auto-Pilot (I would not buy the current version of AP for my wife anyways because I think it's a hazard, but that's a different debate).
When the iPhone first came out and some people said they'd rather buy other smartphone because iPhone1 did not have a copy/paste option, there were Apple fanboys flaming them while defending Apple's decision to not provide copy/paste functionality. In the end, the market decided, copy/paste is something people value, no matter what Apple thought was better for them. Similar story on the Apple single button mouse, eventually they caved in and added the right click. The purists will argue that copy/paste is a blasphemy, as will those who argue that no center console in MS is better, but the market speaks louder than them. I love capitalism and competition!
Different people value different things. Some people value cupholders or things like the roof "oh *sugar*" handles. My father in law cannot get in and out of my MS easily (even with suspension on very high). It took me long enough to teach him not to grab onto the window glass, but not having the roof handle is a complete and total deal breaker for him, he just won't buy a car without it because it is a pain (literally for his back) to get in and out of a car without them - I don't blame him. In the end, competition is awesome, as it allows the customers to vote with their money, and if people value cup holders enough to buy a Bolt over Model 3, that's great - it will help Tesla develop a better car. Maybe it will also stop Tesla from coming up with cool looking but impractical features such as the MX gull-wing doors - they take forever to open and close as compared to powered van doors on our Sienna, and the Sienna doors open and close reliable every time while MX doors require a retry more often than you'd think. I won't buy an MX because I value reliable and fast opening doors, just like a value an actual door handle on the front door rather than a button and having to wait for the door to self-present. Those are not the only reasons, but even by themselves a deal-breaker for me. If Totota comes up with an electric Sienna with 200+ mile range, I would buy it over Model X, even without supercharging or Auto-Pilot (I would not buy the current version of AP for my wife anyways because I think it's a hazard, but that's a different debate).When the iPhone first came out and some people said they'd rather buy other smartphone because iPhone1 did not have a copy/paste option, there were Apple fanboys flaming them while defending Apple's decision to not provide copy/paste functionality. In the end, the market decided, copy/paste is something people value, no matter what Apple thought was better for them. Similar story on the Apple single button mouse, eventually they caved in and added the right click. The purists will argue that copy/paste is a blasphemy, as will those who argue that no center console in MS is better, but the market speaks louder than them. I love capitalism and competition!
spc
Member
No debate here,
I would say it is more a case of comfort and practicality. The missing exit handles for the father in law, the AC vents always blowing on ones face or up someones skirt in the back with little control, or even the missing ones for the kids seat way in the back, and how about the total lack of storage space, even the traditional door pockets are MIA not to mention the ugly mess one could accumulate in the center console where everyone peeking from outside can see, well 600 bucks can fix that if we can find one and hope it mach the interior.
Dumb key fob that have no clue on how to pre-adjust the seats and mirror, cup holders someone mentioned.. yeah they are there but in such uncomfortable place that it is almost useless. How about the TACC stock? how many time you try to flip the turn signal and hit the CC instead?
Lets sit mother in law in the back of a Caddy or Mercedes and then ask what car she wants.... and I have not even started to get picky.
But again lets give the young automaker the benefit of the doubt and see how soon they will start noticing how the luxury competition does it and again none have OTA updates.
Woz's statement talks about user conveniences and how the Bolt addresses some of the problems they've had with their Model S.
While Tesla may continue to build the best EV on the market, Tesla onboard software (excluding AP) is lagging behind the functionality and reliability in other vehicles. The Bolt is supposed to have both Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, and even though it may not have the large 17" touchscreen or the Google satellite maps with real-time traffic data, plus it's unlikely GM will ship a car that requires periodic reboots.
Hopefully Tesla will begin closing the "infotainment" gap with Version 8.0 and has plans to further close the gap before other manufacturers have competing long range EVs on the market
While Tesla may continue to build the best EV on the market, Tesla onboard software (excluding AP) is lagging behind the functionality and reliability in other vehicles. The Bolt is supposed to have both Apple CarPlay and Android Auto, and even though it may not have the large 17" touchscreen or the Google satellite maps with real-time traffic data, plus it's unlikely GM will ship a car that requires periodic reboots.
Hopefully Tesla will begin closing the "infotainment" gap with Version 8.0 and has plans to further close the gap before other manufacturers have competing long range EVs on the market
http://jalopnik.com/apple-co-founder-steve-wozniak-is-talking-about-trading-1786328338
"Knowing myself, it may replace the Tesla. A lot of complaints about the Tesla that my wife and I have are solved in this car. It’s not just some name where you have to take a side. The user conveniences are well thought out and the functionality is great. I tell everyone that the most valuable, useful car of my life was the Prius that I drove for 10 years. I don’t need top-of-the-line luxury. We have a Tesla but there is no other EV choice that’s good for road trips. The Bolt will need some personal testing by Janet and myself to find out how it is on road trips. Otherwise, it’s what we want. Extra features aren’t the big picture, or we’d have skipped the Tesla for a Mercedes."
What about the Model 3??
"Gary, after seeing the insides and the UI, Tesla will have a difficult time selling me a Model 3"
Knowing Woz, I'm wondering if the software development on the S is too slow for his tastes?
Krugerrand
Meow
McHoffa
CyberOwners
I put a CarPlay/Android Auto system in my wife's car. It's really nice and I wish Tesla would work with Apple to implement this (and android auto) into their UI and be able to use Siri from the car.
My Honda Fit had nearly 20 cupholders scattered around the interior, and most in places where I could put very tall cups/bottles. My Nissan Leaf has two usable cupholders, and their under the center dash, so our 30 oz RTIC cups don't even fit there. Don't underestimate placement of cupholders
As the post before yours showed, he already gets paid by GM
Pam Fletcher, a senior GM executive overseeing the Bolt EV, said at a technology conference earlier this week that:
We don't have details yet about which aspects of the car will be updatable over the air or whether they will use this mechanism to improve features and functionality or just to fix bugs in existing features. I'm guessing they will still require software updates at dealers for safety-critical components.
RogerHScott
Active Member
JohnSnowNW
Active Member
Maybe it's the cynic in me, but that sure seems to be worded in such a way that allowing OTA updates several years down the road would still allow the statement to be true.
It seems rather unlikely, based on GM's past comments, that the Bolt EV will have OTA capability without visiting a dealer for some time, if ever. OTA updates are a serious threat to the dealership model...and anything that isn't a critical update would most likely be fluff...then.
WileyTheMan
Peanut Gallery Member
Well, I'm now seriously confused as to where Woz stands with Tesla. Ultimately it doesn't matter, I suppose. Everyone has the right to an opinion, and to change it at the drop of a hat.
ImEric
Member
This was my first thought, too: "GM pays his company to use CarPlay and Tesla doesn't. That's the User Interface that he's talking about!!!" I initially dismissed it.. then I thought about it for a minute. There are a lot of people out there with iPhones and, now, even more with Android phones. Stepping into a Bolt will be seamless for them, from a UI standpoint. And as long as they don't want to go on any long distance trips, they should be fine. I mean, it's still looks like it fell off the ugly tree, but at least it no longer appears to have hit every branch on its way down.
Wow, lots of Woz disdain. In
If the Bolt fell off the ugly tree, where did the Leaf and i3 and Prius fall from?
If the Bolt fell off the ugly tree, where did the Leaf and i3 and Prius fall from?
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