Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[AmpedRealtor]

And now this:
Tesla plans to increase vehicle power, range, and charging through new software update

I saw that this morning. It's a bit like Musk kicking sand in the faces of those who are suffering from #chargegate and #batterygate. Sadly—and I point to the media here—this gets the majority of the news cycles while #batterygate and #chargegate do not.

Tesla did the same thing to us 85 owners. After buying in 2013, I believe Tesla increased acceleration by a small amount and also increased charging speed. UNTIL they took it all away and then some. My tin foil hat makes me think that Musk does this to get headlines and juice sales knowing that doing this will hurt the longevity of the batteries which will eventually be capped and charge limited. Except, by the time that happens the sales are years in the rear view mirror and Tesla gets out of it by saying it's "normal degradation". This is where I think the crux of the issue lies and why Tesla is pushing back so hard on this lawsuit. Tesla wants to be able to continue acting in this manner without consequence.

 

[Lukez]

Anyone else get an email asking for more information about their complaint to NHTSA that was referenced earlier in the thread?
They're asking some good questions, I hope they do something with this.

 

[MP3Mike]

@wk057 says this affects 100 vehicles.

I thought he said that there are less than 100 impacted packs where the car hasn't updated to a version of the firmware that caps the battery. (So @sorka would be one of those 100.)

 

[AmpedRealtor]

Just saw this on the Washington Post and found one aspect of the lawsuit to be of interest to the group:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...uturistic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-alleges/

While the battery combustion was due to an accident and the death allegedly due to the design of the door handles, the lawsuit also alleges an "inherently unstable" battery. Maybe the law firms and plaintiffs can coordinate?

I thought he said that there are less than 100 impacted packs where the car hasn't updated to a version of the firmware that caps the battery. (So @sorka would be one of those 100.)

Perhaps I misread his post, then.

Hopefully the new found profitability helps the odds we get a reasonable resolution to battery- and charger-gate.

More likely, Musk will view this as validation of his warranty avoidance strategy and will feel even more emboldened.

 

[Chaserr]

If it’s taking this long to work through the faulty airbag backlog, maybe they will eventually replace my battery at some point in the future before the warranty expires?

Here’s hoping anyway!

That backlog is scheduled by the NHTSA. Tesla is 5 months and 4 days past the NHTSA mandated 5 day reporting window for whatever they discovered with our batteries.

 

[Chaserr]

@wk057 says this affects 100 vehicles. It's much cheaper for Tesla to swap out their packs than hire outside legal at over $1,000/hr. UNLESS this degradation is going to eventually hit a much larger number of vehicles over time that would make pack replacement a financial waterloo. I believe this is where Tesla is in its thinking and wants to set a precedent for itself and the industry. Again, I say degradation and not safety issue.

We know this is complete bologna because Tesla wouldn't hire MoFO to represent them or risk the NHTSA fines they have coming for such a small sum. They've represented themselves in the past with their own legal staff, and have enough batteries on hand to repair every one of those 100 cars in the same day. The only way it makes sense for Tesla to do what they keep doing is for this to cost them something near the $Billions range. There's absolutely no logic in them spending more to make people afraid of owning Teslas - not just us but potential buyers learning about OTA downgrades - over 100 loaner packs they could have swapped with loaner cars and be done with it. The "100" number isn't even a nice fabrication, it's too unbelievable.

 

[kavyboy]

I just got my car back from the service center. (All-around positive experience, I must say! Good job Houston North!) I was on 2018.14.2 previously. The MCU seemed to have died, but it turns out that a firmware update had failed. That strongly suggests that they tried to force an update. I got the same MCU back, updated to 2019.32.12.3. It looks like I've lost no range (still at roughly 240 miles on the 2015 S70), but the supercharging may have taken a slight hit. Optimal charging rate before was SOC% + kW = 125. Now it's about 100, but maybe it wasn't optimal conditions then. I can live with that. We'll see what happens with my road trip this weekend.

 

[DJRas]

Anyone else get an email asking for more information about their complaint to NHTSA that was referenced earlier in the thread?
They're asking some good questions, I hope they do something with this.

Yes, I know of at least one other - @swegman

 

[Fleer]

And now this:
Tesla plans to increase vehicle power, range, and charging through new software update

99% chance this only for the new raven S.

 

[DJRas]

Just saw this on the Washington Post and found one aspect of the lawsuit to be of interest to the group:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/busi...uturistic-doors-wouldnt-open-lawsuit-alleges/

While the battery combustion was due to an accident and the death allegedly due to the design of the door handles, the lawsuit also alleges an "inherently unstable" battery. Maybe the law firms and plaintiffs can coordinate?
.

I think this door handle suit is misdirected. ALL cars with electric locks cannot be opened by pulling on the handle.
My Prius was like that.
My wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee is like that.
As with all cars, the side window is easily shattered with a simple tool available to all police and rescue personnel. Then reach in and open the door or drag him through the window opening.

 

[st50maint]

Anyone else get an email asking for more information about their complaint to NHTSA that was referenced earlier in the thread?
They're asking some good questions, I hope they do something with this.

Yes, I got the email asking for more information. Pasted below:


Thank you for filing a complaint with NHTSA. It is helpful to our screening. As we gather more details, it is sometimes necessary to contact the complainants for additional information. Some of the questions may appear redundant to your complaint.


If you wouldn’t mind, please answer the questions below to supplement the information you have already provided us.

For the complaint reported, please indicate:

1. What battery pack installed on your vehicle?
2. Is your vehicle equipped with all-wheel drive?
3. What are the complaint software update number(s) and installation date(s)?
4. Did you notice a drop of available range miles following over-the-air update(s)?
5. Did you notice a change in acceleration following over-the-air update(s)?
6. Do you maintain a record or a log of available range miles after each full battery charge prior to and after software updates? If so, can you email this record?
7. Do you receive or have received free unlimited charging credits?
8. Do you receive any free charging credits? e.g. 400 kWh of Supercharger credits annually?
9. How often do you use the Supercharger network? e.g. 1% of all charging.
10. Do you sometimes top-off your battery thru supercharging?
11. Any pertinent information you would like to add?

Thank you


Kareem Habib
Federal Investigator
United States Department of Transportation-NHTSA
1200 New Jersey Ave, SE
Washington DC, 20590

 

[omarsultan]

Sadly—and I point to the media here—this gets the majority of the news cycles while #batterygate and #chargegate do not.

This aspect of the story still continues to intrigue me. For all the nothing burgers that the mainstream media and TESLAQ freak out about, the lack of pick-up on this story is surprise.

 

[Chaserr]

TSLAQ makes up their own fictions, so things like their silly "paint booth can't support Model 3" stories get their support because they created it. This is a real issue, so they aren't aware of it and can't understand it.

 

[swegman]

Yes, I got the email asking for more information. Pasted below:


Thank you for filing a complaint with NHTSA. It is helpful to our screening. As we gather more details, it is sometimes necessary to contact the complainants for additional information. Some of the questions may appear redundant to your complaint.


If you wouldn’t mind, please answer the questions below to supplement the information you have already provided us.

For the complaint reported, please indicate:

1. What battery pack installed on your vehicle?
2. Is your vehicle equipped with all-wheel drive?
3. What are the complaint software update number(s) and installation date(s)?
4. Did you notice a drop of available range miles following over-the-air update(s)?
5. Did you notice a change in acceleration following over-the-air update(s)?
6. Do you maintain a record or a log of available range miles after each full battery charge prior to and after software updates? If so, can you email this record?
7. Do you receive or have received free unlimited charging credits?
8. Do you receive any free charging credits? e.g. 400 kWh of Supercharger credits annually?
9. How often do you use the Supercharger network? e.g. 1% of all charging.
10. Do you sometimes top-off your battery thru supercharging?
11. Any pertinent information you would like to add?

Thank you


Kareem Habib
Federal Investigator
United States Department of Transportation-NHTSA
1200 New Jersey Ave, SE
Washington DC, 20590

I got the same email and responded to them already.

 

[Droschke]

I say degradation and not safety issue.

As you know, multiple fires prompted Tesla to announce and issue the capping updates. Fire is a major safety issue. The capping might be a band-aid to reduce the risk. No matter how you cut it, it's a safety issue, supposedly under control for now (or till the warranty runs out) with the current amount of capping.

I do believe that there is something inherently wrong with the capped packs and Tesla is trying to push a bunch of problems past the warranty period.

You would think that would be crystal clear to everyone, wouldn't you?

Some have posted Tesla's explanation that the degradation occurs over time and due to use, and each pack is different in this regard. This is why I think it's warranty avoidance, not a safety issue. Longevity = push failure outside of warranty.

Agree, except why (again) to ignore the safety issue. That's the reason the capping is in place. By saying this is not a safety issue the whole argument keeps circling in confusion.

I believe Tesla is being shady here and owes owners not only an explanation, but a restoration of their range.

Thanks for confirming what we have been saying since day one.

It's much cheaper for Tesla to swap out their packs than hire outside legal at over $1,000/hr. UNLESS this degradation is going to eventually hit a much larger number of vehicles over time that would make pack replacement a financial waterloo.

You nailed it!

 

[Droschke]

Musk does this to get headlines and juice sales knowing that doing this will hurt the longevity of the batteries which will eventually be capped and charge limited. Except, by the time that happens the sales are years in the rear view mirror and Tesla gets out of it by saying it's "normal degradation". This is where I think the crux of the issue lies and why Tesla is pushing back so hard on this lawsuit. Tesla wants to be able to continue acting in this manner without consequence.

Exactly. Stated well and to the point.

 

[Evoforce]

We know this is complete bologna because Tesla wouldn't hire MoFO to represent them or risk the NHTSA fines they have coming for such a small sum. They've represented themselves in the past with their own legal staff, and have enough batteries on hand to repair every one of those 100 cars in the same day. The only way it makes sense for Tesla to do what they keep doing is for this to cost them something near the $Billions range. There's absolutely no logic in them spending more to make people afraid of owning Teslas - not just us but potential buyers learning about OTA downgrades - over 100 loaner packs they could have swapped with loaner cars and be done with it. The "100" number isn't even a nice fabrication, it's too unbelievable.

Over two years ago, it took them a month to get a loaner pack for my car saying that they didn't have any available. Some started getting 90 packs around that time. I haven't yet looked at the label on my loaner.

 

[Droschke]

They replaced my airbag in July when they did the battery test on my car.
I had received the recall postcard almost one year prior.

Supposedly, they need to report back to the NHTSA that the work has been completed. Not sure how long they have in order to file it, but at least in my case the NHTSA hasn't been notified since February 2019 when my airbag was replaced.

 

[Droschke]

I just got my car back from the service center. (All-around positive experience, I must say! Good job Houston North!) I was on 2018.14.2 previously. The MCU seemed to have died, but it turns out that a firmware update had failed. That strongly suggests that they tried to force an update. I got the same MCU back, updated to 2019.32.12.3. It looks like I've lost no range (still at roughly 240 miles on the 2015 S70), but the supercharging may have taken a slight hit. Optimal charging rate before was SOC% + kW = 125. Now it's about 100, but maybe it wasn't optimal conditions then. I can live with that. We'll see what happens with my road trip this weekend.

So glad you don't see any capping. Let's hope it stays that way

BTW, I also follow the "Bighorn Rule" (SoC + Kw = 120 to 130). My before and after results mirror yours.

 

[Droschke]

I think this door handle suit is misdirected. ALL cars with electric locks cannot be opened by pulling on the handle.
My Prius was like that.
My wife's Jeep Grand Cherokee is like that.
As with all cars, the side window is easily shattered with a simple tool available to all police and rescue personnel. Then reach in and open the door or drag him through the window opening.

What if there is no simple tool available, no police and rescue personnel around in timely manner? Every second counts.