Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

[Gizmotoy]

I’m at 99.3% SOC and still technically “charging”, and I see most modules at a min of 4.193V. However, Module 8 is at 4.184, Module 9 is at 4.188, and Module 12 is at 4.187V. The modules that are low don’t really appear to be creeping up at all, and the other modules seem to be continuing to climb a thousandth at a time.

Where is the “I am capped” line usually drawn? I noticed a range drop as part of firmware updates a few months ago, but not as pronounced as is sometimes described here.

Edit:
Looks like once the charging operation stopped and they were no longer DC/DC supported they dropped a fair bit.

At 99.7% SOC
Cell min: 4.174V
Cell max: 4.184V
Full rated range: 255
2013 P85 with 45.5k miles

 

[Chaserr]

My user agreement pre-dated the change that requires that you keep the firmware up to date. They can't void my warranty for failing to update the firmware and in California, they can't void the warranty even with the new wording.

Also, it may not be unusual for non performance 85s' to reach the 200K mark on the original battery, but it is unusual for a P85DL to reach 100K miles on the original battery without having to be replaced. I'm already well beyond that probably because I've been so OCD about storage SOC and charging only right before I leave.

they can't invalidate warranty for not updating anywhere in the us. Warranty is valid unless they can prove you caused damage yourself that invalidated the warranty. The only way they can prove not updating caused damage is by proving an earlier update caused damage... And that just admits Tesla caused the damage.

 

[David99]

I’m at 99.3% SOC and still technically “charging”, and I see most modules at a min of 4.193V. However, Module 8 is at 4.184, Module 9 is at 4.188, and Module 12 is at 4.187V. The modules that are low don’t really appear to be creeping up at all, and the other modules seem to be continuing to climb a thousandth at a time.

Where is the “I am capped” line usually drawn? I noticed a range drop as part of firmware updates a few months ago, but not as pronounced as is sometimes described here.

Edit:
Looks like once the charging operation stopped and they were no longer DC/DC supported they dropped a fair bit.

At 99.7% SOC
Cell min: 4.174V
Cell max: 4.184V
Full rated range: 255
2013 P85 with 45.5k miles

You are not capped. Capped it 4.1 Volt max. I believe Tesla is now charging to 100 % extra slow to be on the safe side.

 

[David99]

I'm already well beyond that probably because I've been so OCD about storage SOC and charging only right before I leave.

I'm convinced that I got hit so late being capped because I was doing the same thing. I supercharged a lot from day one. But I never charged my car when I came home at night. Always used the timer and later the app that automatically starts charging to finish charging just before I leave. So I kept my average SOC pretty low. Everything points to a high SOC being the most damaging thing you can do to these batteries.

 

[Gizmotoy]

You are not capped. Capped it 4.1 Volt max. I believe Tesla is now charging to 100 % extra slow to be on the safe side.

I’m a little confused on this point, because what you said here matches my understanding of the issue. But the Wiki post says the following in the “Am I Capped section”

if your car’s cell volts @ 100% are close to 4.2v (real world readings are usually 4.198 or similar, don’t expect true 4.2v but you should be very close) you are OK. If you consistently charge to 4.18v or less @ 100% regardless of temperature, etc., you have probably been capped.

It looks like I charge to 4.18V or less.

 

[omarsultan]

Out of curiosity, what's your typical charging routine?

Forgot to answer this bit:

• Baseline: every day, I charge to 90% @ 80A (HPWC) starting at midnight
• For first 4 years of ownership, typically twice a week, I'd head into the Bay Area, which meant I'd charge to 100% the night before and hit a Supercharger on the way back, typically charging from ~35% to ~65%
• For the last couple of years, I am down to going to the Bay Area 2-3 times a month
• Based on the TM-Spy screen, about 20% of my charging has been DC charging, mostly Supercharging, a vey small bit of ChaDeMo mixed in

 

[omarsultan]

They didn't even out, it was just a scale change.

 

[camthehombre]

My buddy is experiencing this battery issue too and this is this is what his app is showing when he changes the “charge to” slider. Anyone else?

 

[supratachophobia]

I'm also experiencing an issue like this. I cannot get my pack to charge about 97%. When I set the charge level to 100% it charges to 97% and stops (says charging is complete). There is no power going to the car, but if I let it set for an hour it will creep up to 98%, but will not go higher from there. Im trying a few deep charge cycles between home and supercharging to see if I can get it figured out. Tesla is aware and are monitoring my VIN for battery issues.

Having the *exact* same issue.

 

[Dax279]

This continual “tweaking” Tesla is very frustrating. With the last update I now see the coolant pump (or something) running almost continuously. There are a few things that I just don’t understand other than to think it is being done by Tesla as a way to get energy from the battery, which can only be because Tesla does not want to cap batteries further, but still need to do something in order to mitigate some type of risk that they see with the battery.

What I am now seeing is

1. when I charge to 90% (whichI have been doing nightly for 2 years now), a pump or something is running after the charge has completed in the morning.

2. Rather than being at 387 km of range that I had seen since the June update, I am now getting into a car with 375 km of range. Thus, the pump is not being run by shore power, but rather from the battery. This is strange as I had thought that when I used to plug in any power usage for the car came from the wall and not the battery? I could be wrong here.

3. The pump runs even though the battery is not warm enough to remove regen limitation.

4. it has been minus 10 to minus 20C here the past couple of weeks and the pump continues to run for my entire drive into the office and I have regen limited for the entire trip. Why does the pump need to run and to cool the battery even though the battery is not warm enough for full regen?

So not only do I now have a part that is not covered by warranty running longer, I also have a car that is running way less efficiently than what I purchased. I also have no answers to why these changes are being made, have less of an understanding of what i should be charging to everyday and also what I need to do to ensure the longevity of my battery, and most importantly if I have a battery that is even safe.

I have booked my car in for service as I don’t know why a pump to cool the battery needs to run while the car still has regen limits due to the battery not being warm enough. It just does not seem logical. Not sure what people thoughts are here and if I need to just cancel and not waste my money for them to look at this?

 

[dark cloud]

3. The pump runs even though the battery is not warm enough to remove regen limitation.

4. it has been minus 10 to minus 20C here the past couple of weeks and the pump continues to run for my entire drive into the office and I have regen limited for the entire trip. Why does the pump need to run and to cool the battery even though the battery is not warm enough for full regen?


I have booked my car in for service as I don’t know why a pump to cool the battery needs to run while the car still has regen limits due to the battery not being warm enough.

The pump is running to warm it up, so you do get some regen.

But yes even in subzero temperatures while charging the BMS still asks the pump to circulate coolant at high SOC. I don't know if it is necessary: Does it just take into account the cell temperatures or does it take into account the SOC without analyzing cell temperatures; probably the latter but lately I suppose Tesla's motto is better safe then sorry.

 

[tga]

2. Rather than being at 387 km of range that I had seen since the June update, I am now getting into a car with 375 km of range. Thus, the pump is not being run by shore power, but rather from the battery. This is strange as I had thought that when I used to plug in any power usage for the car came from the wall and not the battery? I could be wrong here.

Shore power is only used to power HVAC and (obviously) charging. HVAC and battery heater run off the HVDC bus. I've never seen the battery heater come on without HVAC or charging, so I can't definitively say the battery heater will always run off shore power, but it will be running off shore power if it turns on during cabin preconditioning (HVAC) or charging, since shore power is on for those.

The coolant pumps run of 12V DC, which will cycle the battery and periodically engage the DC-DC converter to recharge the 12V battery from the HV pack. Shore power doesn't get involved, until the HV pack has dropped 3% below the charge setpoint, at which time another HV charge cycle starts.

Have you tried delayed charging, so that the charge finishes close to your departure time? The battery will be warmer and you'll be more likely to have regen. You'll also spend less time sitting at a high state of charge, which is a bit better for the battery.

 

[dark cloud]

I've never seen the battery heater come on without HVAC or charging,

I just verified this today, using navigate to supercharger. Climate off and not plugged in.

Less regen on 2019.40.2?

 

[Chaserr]

Tesla's motto is better safe then sorry

Lately Tesla's motto is sorry we won't adhere to safety laws which is why this thread exists.

 

[ddawson]

Capped to 98% charging but overall looks like I'm not capped. ChargeGate yes.

 

[Droschke]

I've never seen the battery heater come on without HVAC or charging

It might be. When the battery heating feature was working during the remote cabin heating (via app) when my car was parked in the very cold garage and plugged in, I always thought both the battery and the cabin heating were off of the HPWC (I know the cabin heating for sure was and still is). It's very possible that the battery heating part of it was always off the HVB and not the shore power. There was no way for me to verify because there was no way to trigger the battery heating by itself in this scenario (the prerequisite was to heat the cabin).

 

[tga]

It might be. When the battery heating feature was working during the remote cabin heating (via app) when my car was parked in the very cold garage and plugged in, I always thought both the battery and the cabin heating were off of the HPWC (I know the cabin heating for sure was and still is). It's very possible that the battery heating part of it was always off the HVB and not the shore power. There was no way for me to verify because there was no way to trigger the battery heating by itself in this scenario (the prerequisite was to heat the cabin).

Right, I'm not saying it won't run off the battery, just that I've never seen it happen.

 

[David99]

4. it has been minus 10 to minus 20C here the past couple of weeks and the pump continues to run for my entire drive into the office and I have regen limited for the entire trip. Why does the pump need to run and to cool the battery even though the battery is not warm enough for full regen?

You need to look at the CAN bus data to see what is going on. There are three pumps in RWD cars and 4 pumps in dual motor cars. Two for the battery (there has to be two depending on how the coolant look is set) and one for each drive unit.

For a while now I have noticed that my car seems to be running the pump for the drive unit a lot more than it used to. It is also runnng to keep the on board charger cool which is part of the coolant loop. Sometimes the battery pumps are running while bypassing the radiator and chiller. What the car is doing is circulating the coolant in the battery to even out temperature differences.

So there are many scenarios where you hear a pump running. Not all of them mean the battery is cooled.

 

[David99]

Having the *exact* same issue.

Mine won't charge to 100% on AC but will on DC (supercharger).

 

[supratachophobia]

Mine won't charge to 100% on AC but will on DC (supercharger).

Interesting, I'm going to try that.