They do require it yearly once u add the extended warranty. Which is probably not a bad thing once it get in the 50k -100k mile range
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Wiki Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software
- Thread starter Dutchmeeuw
- Start date
Same *sugar* in one of my P85D’s. Is yours past warranty? It seems like the only ppl experience it also happen to be eithervpast the years or miles for the original warranty. The one I have only has 28k miles. It’s hardly been used. My P90DL however that still has a yr left under warranty hasn’t had a single issue
CuriousG
Active Member
No, because saying FIRST is much cooler than saying 5000th. Unless you're RDJ and saying 3000.
jaitch
Member
Interestingly Tesla have sneakily changed the way they tell you about an update. Used to be you had to have actually downloaded it and then get the yellow install box. As far as I was aware there was no other way to know before that there was an update ready for your car. (unless I missed something before).
Now you get the "software update available connect to wifi" message. I would expect the latter to now apply as being advised in the warranty terms. Ie ignore and be excluded from whatever warranty terms you are on. This obviously makes it even easier for Tesla to own your car and void warranty (if they have ever done that).
On the warranty "discussion" Tesla reset your warranty on your older Tesla when you buy from them - hence the inclusion of older Tesla models in the new issue warranty. But hey.
Now you get the "software update available connect to wifi" message. I would expect the latter to now apply as being advised in the warranty terms. Ie ignore and be excluded from whatever warranty terms you are on. This obviously makes it even easier for Tesla to own your car and void warranty (if they have ever done that).
On the warranty "discussion" Tesla reset your warranty on your older Tesla when you buy from them - hence the inclusion of older Tesla models in the new issue warranty. But hey.
DJRas
Member
I know they have manipulated the Wh/mile "constant" over time. The current multiplier artificially reduces the apparent degradation.
To me, this whole thread boils down to two questions. There are so many thing to consider here that it can hurt the brain. 
(1) The NHTSA requires that a manufacturer report any safety defect within 5 days of discovery. So did Tesla discover a defect in the fire cars and push this "fix" to mitigate it so they wouldn't have to report it to NHTSA? Or have they really not been able to truly identify a defect and the fix is just for battery longevity? If they can't identify the root cause of a defect, they may stay off NHTSA's radar by saying there is no identifiable defect at this time.
(2) Can a manufacturer remove "features" without consent? Legally, this may be a gray area. If rangegate/chargegate are really related to safety, NHTSA might be able to get involved eventually and determine if the fix is acceptable. Otherwise it may have to be settled in a class action suit.
I have to ask myself, If I were affected and inclined to make a report to NHTSA on the basis of safety, what would I say? I can't say I have identified a safety issue with my car because the "fix" might have corrected the safety issue and after all, my car hasn't caught fire or shown any signs of doing so. So what could I tell them: that Tesla removed features? I know they'd likely throw that out because I'd have to answer "I don't know if it's a safety issue". My only option might be to report that I believe Tesla may have identified a safety issue and tried to "fix" it with a software update without reporting it to NHTSA. That might get it on NHTSA radar because ultimately, NHTSA should be evaluating safety fixes and it might at least get them to investigate whether or not the intention of this update was to mitigate a safety issue. If NHTSA were to find that indeed the update was designed to reduce fire risk, Tesla could be in trouble for not reporting it (and the fix) for evaluation/resolution by NHTSA.
Mike
(1) The NHTSA requires that a manufacturer report any safety defect within 5 days of discovery. So did Tesla discover a defect in the fire cars and push this "fix" to mitigate it so they wouldn't have to report it to NHTSA? Or have they really not been able to truly identify a defect and the fix is just for battery longevity? If they can't identify the root cause of a defect, they may stay off NHTSA's radar by saying there is no identifiable defect at this time.
(2) Can a manufacturer remove "features" without consent? Legally, this may be a gray area. If rangegate/chargegate are really related to safety, NHTSA might be able to get involved eventually and determine if the fix is acceptable. Otherwise it may have to be settled in a class action suit.
I have to ask myself, If I were affected and inclined to make a report to NHTSA on the basis of safety, what would I say? I can't say I have identified a safety issue with my car because the "fix" might have corrected the safety issue and after all, my car hasn't caught fire or shown any signs of doing so. So what could I tell them: that Tesla removed features? I know they'd likely throw that out because I'd have to answer "I don't know if it's a safety issue". My only option might be to report that I believe Tesla may have identified a safety issue and tried to "fix" it with a software update without reporting it to NHTSA. That might get it on NHTSA radar because ultimately, NHTSA should be evaluating safety fixes and it might at least get them to investigate whether or not the intention of this update was to mitigate a safety issue. If NHTSA were to find that indeed the update was designed to reduce fire risk, Tesla could be in trouble for not reporting it (and the fix) for evaluation/resolution by NHTSA.
Mike
DJRas
Member
This is how I reported to NHTSA.To me, this whole thread boils down to two questions. There are so many thing to consider here that it can hurt the brain.
(1) The NHTSA requires that a manufacturer report any safety defect within 5 days of discovery. So did Tesla discover a defect in the fire cars and push this "fix" to mitigate it so they wouldn't have to report it to NHTSA? Or have they really not been able to truly identify a defect and the fix is just for battery longevity? If they can't identify the root cause of a defect, they may stay off NHTSA's radar by saying there is no identifiable defect at this time.
(2) Can a manufacturer remove "features" without consent? Legally, this may be a gray area. If rangegate/chargegate are really related to safety, NHTSA might be able to get involved eventually and determine if the fix is acceptable. Otherwise it may have to be settled in a class action suit.
I have to ask myself, If I were affected and inclined to make a report to NHTSA on the basis of safety, what would I say? I can't say I have identified a safety issue with my car because the "fix" might have corrected the safety issue and after all, my car hasn't caught fire or shown any signs of doing so. So what could I tell them: that Tesla removed features? I know they'd likely throw that out because I'd have to answer "I don't know if it's a safety issue". My only option might be to report that I believe Tesla may have identified a safety issue and tried to "fix" it with a software update without reporting it to NHTSA. That might get it on NHTSA radar because ultimately, NHTSA should be evaluating safety fixes and it might at least get them to investigate whether or not the intention of this update was to mitigate a safety issue. If NHTSA were to find that indeed the update was designed to reduce fire risk, Tesla could be in trouble for not reporting it (and the fix) for evaluation/resolution by NHTSA.
Mike
I have not had a fire. But several have occurred over a short period of time with similar make/model year to mine.
Tesla released a statement saying they would roll out a software update to address this issue "out of an abundance of caution".
Is this update safe and effective?
I believe an outside party should address these claims.
DJRas
Member
For those still discussing the Warranty you should read
Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law
They csnnot change the warranty retroactively.
Thay cannot require you to perform PAID service to maintain that warranty.
So, the currently posted warranty dies NOT apply to older cars (unless recently purchased used FROM Tesla).
They cannot require annual service to maintain that warranty.
They CAN require FREE software updates to be installed on NEW cars.
Businessperson's Guide to Federal Warranty Law
They csnnot change the warranty retroactively.
Thay cannot require you to perform PAID service to maintain that warranty.
So, the currently posted warranty dies NOT apply to older cars (unless recently purchased used FROM Tesla).
They cannot require annual service to maintain that warranty.
They CAN require FREE software updates to be installed on NEW cars.
That old behavior has not changed in my case. Last week the 2019.32.2.1 was already downloaded to my car when I got the "Software Update" Available" notification on the phone and the yellow box on the 17" screen. I'm yet to see any message telling me any update is available to download.
My report to the NHTSA included the link posted a few pages back where Tesla admitted they would be posting a safety update to try and stop cars from catching fire and an explanation that the update they released severely devalues cars and diminishes many aspects of the vehicle's usability and performance which is forcing many owners to choose not to update. I linked this thread where experts have said as much as they are willing to say regarding the need to update in spite of there being no tangible benefit to compensate for the many immediately appreciable damages the update causes, and asked the NHTSA for clarification on whether they can clarify if Tesla had reported the fire safety problem to them because if there is no clarification people could die, and without notices sent to owners people without wifi or people avoiding intentional dmaage are forever at risk. I also linked to a few threads where people discuss how they haven't updated their car in years to point out examples of why a recall notice needs to be sent out since Tesla won't even discuss the topic with owners.To me, this whole thread boils down to two questions. There are so many thing to consider here that it can hurt the brain.
(1) The NHTSA requires that a manufacturer report any safety defect within 5 days of discovery. So did Tesla discover a defect in the fire cars and push this "fix" to mitigate it so they wouldn't have to report it to NHTSA? Or have they really not been able to truly identify a defect and the fix is just for battery longevity? If they can't identify the root cause of a defect, they may stay off NHTSA's radar by saying there is no identifiable defect at this time.
(2) Can a manufacturer remove "features" without consent? Legally, this may be a gray area. If rangegate/chargegate are really related to safety, NHTSA might be able to get involved eventually and determine if the fix is acceptable. Otherwise it may have to be settled in a class action suit.
I have to ask myself, If I were affected and inclined to make a report to NHTSA on the basis of safety, what would I say? I can't say I have identified a safety issue with my car because the "fix" might have corrected the safety issue and after all, my car hasn't caught fire or shown any signs of doing so. So what could I tell them: that Tesla removed features? I know they'd likely throw that out because I'd have to answer "I don't know if it's a safety issue". My only option might be to report that I believe Tesla may have identified a safety issue and tried to "fix" it with a software update without reporting it to NHTSA. That might get it on NHTSA radar because ultimately, NHTSA should be evaluating safety fixes and it might at least get them to investigate whether or not the intention of this update was to mitigate a safety issue. If NHTSA were to find that indeed the update was designed to reduce fire risk, Tesla could be in trouble for not reporting it (and the fix) for evaluation/resolution by NHTSA.
Mike
I'm hoping the NHTSA can at least get an on the record legal answer of "Yes" or "No" to the question - "Is it safe to not update at all?" from Tesla because they're probably the only ones that can ask the question and not be ignored or lied to.
All good questions and all points talked over in a secretive atmosphere, at least so far. I'm well aware of how lengthy any root cause analysis (RCA) can be. Sometimes an RCA will be closed by being inconclusive. And, that's when the process is transparent. But, here we are not dealing with a transparency. The disclosures, if they ever arrive, will be forced by law and regulations, not volunteered.
Agree that this needs a legally defined answer. I would hope the answer would be no. I wonder what would be the difference between the actions below, taken without my knowledge:
A)Tesla SC removing my side mirrors adjustment switch (which I paid for) because Tesla believes it's unsafe for the drivers to be distracted by using it while driving and,
B) Tesla removing my ability to charge to the 90% of my capacity (which I paid for) because Tesla believes it's unsafe for the owners to charge to higher voltage since it triggers battery fire
For A, they either to compensate me, put the mirror switch back on, or devise a better mechanism while leaving the feature intact and safe.
For B, the expectation would be the same. Compensate the owners, reinstate the previous capacity level along with authentic warnings and pop-up disclaimers ("you have charged so many times to 90% and that's bad at this time, go with 80%", etc.) with color coding of the charge slider (green/yellow/red); or replace the battery with the one that does not need to be capped (normal/gradual degradation applies).
Software feature removals are only "gray" if they aren't advertised or explicitly purchased. Range was a paid upgrade with a badged value signifying the upgrade, as is performance. Manufacturers have been sued and lost because they lied about performance before, and they have been sued and lost over lying about their range before - the result of one of those range lawsuits was so severe many VW execs are still in jail.
It's only a gray area for things that aren't advertised or weren't present on the car at delivery - anything removed that you explicitly paid for (range, performance) are not in question - they are no less thefts than removing mirrors or seats.
If they have to remove things for safety, they also have to compensate the loss. If this wasn't the case all manufacturers would replace V8s with much cheaper to warranty 4 cylinder engines at the first opportunity.
It's been a while since I supercharged and I think I've had my charge speed reduced. I don't see reduced range after the recent slew of updates, but I can only charge at 90 kW at 25% SOC. The charging started at 105 kW but quickly dropped to 90 and down from there. It took 45 minutes to charge from 25% to 90%. I charged in Stall 1A, closest to the cabinets, with no other vehicles present. Ambient temps were in the 80s. I have a 2013 P85 that charges to 242 miles @ 100% before/after the dreaded software update.
I am currently on software 2019.32.2.1
I remember it Supercharged must faster than this, but I do it so rarely that I can't say for sure.
I am currently on software 2019.32.2.1
I remember it Supercharged must faster than this, but I do it so rarely that I can't say for sure.
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