Summon seems like a silly party trick to me

[SSonnentag]

There must be a video somewhere of Smart-@$$ Summon working correctly, but I've only seen numerous attempts and failures with very limited success given enough tries.

Example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aH4zmcn5Wbc

 

[SandiaGrunt]

C'mon, Tesla fans, show me how you can spin this one to sound good.

U.S. auto safety agency notes Tesla accidents with 'Smart Summon' feature

 

[Big Dog]

thanks, eb. It was getting lonely. hahahaha

 

[alsetym]

Sorry, it just doesn't work that way. Tesla doesn't get to unleash whatever they want on the world, and then force the world to prove that it's safe

How about we talk about banning all cars that DON'T have pedestrian detection in parking lots? Wouldn't that achieve your same goal? What about the poor children that get run into by a 2005 audi or whatever? Smart summon is certainly not perfect, but you can't say its objectively unsafe. Which means we are back to subjective opinion. I'd bet its actually less likely to hit a kid than a normal driver. Pedestrian detection is something that AI does a really good job at.

Tesla is a pretty smart company. They wouldn't open themselves up to litigation if they didn't have the data internally to show that it is adequately safe. Property damage? probably. Safety? not a chance.

 

[SSonnentag]

I think eye contact has a much larger part to play in parking lot navigation than people realize. Also, being able to see and judge what people are planning on doing based upon where they are and which direction they're looking, as well as what they're looking at are all huge clues as to how to safely navigate. AI has a LONG way to go.

Humans use hearing too. We look through adjacent vehicle windows, look for shadows, even look for changing reflections in chrome. I love Elon's optimism, but I'm afraid he had grossly under-estimated the power of the human mind and over-estimates the "intelligence" of computer algorithms.

 

[alsetym]

C'mon, Tesla fans, show me how you can spin this one to sound good.

U.S. auto safety agency notes Tesla accidents with 'Smart Summon' feature

they sound like adults. They get the data and make decisions on the DATA, not based on your opinion. Note the article said several MINOR accidents. Maybe when they get the data they'll see something they don't like, or maybe they'll see it fits the risk profile they approved it under.

 

[Tam]

C'mon, Tesla fans, show me how you can spin this one to sound good.

The positive spin:

1) No airbag events were documented so far.

2) No criticism from NHTSA so far. It doesn't say Smart Summon is a bad or good idea. It just wants to learn more!

 

[SandiaGrunt]

How about we talk about banning all cars that DON'T have pedestrian detection in parking lots? Wouldn't that achieve your same goal?

To my knowledge, Teslas are the only cars that drive around parking lots with no one in the driver's seat, with no input from a human being except a fat thumb on a smartphone, AND also demonstrably fail to recognize curbs, trash cans, garage walls, grass, reversing vehicles, stop signs, parking space lines, and semi trucks. I want this specific technology banned by regulators.

What about the poor children that get run into by a 2005 audi or whatever?

This is whataboutism. The existence of some bad human drivers does not mean we should permit bad technologies on our roads.

Smart summon is certainly not perfect, but you can't say its objectively unsafe.

I absolutely can. The accident rate in just the first two days is much too large to be a statistical fluke. This is why NHTSA is already investigating.

I'd bet its actually less likely to hit a kid than a normal driver.

Ok chief, but all the evidence is against you.

Pedestrian detection is something that AI does a really good job at.

Robust detection of prone toddlers (and segmentation of toddlers hiding between parked cars) are among the hardest problems in the entire AV space. I know this from first-hand experience.

They wouldn't open themselves up to litigation if they didn't have the data internally to show that it is adequately safe.

What if their internal data is not representative of real-world use?

 

[AwlBidnz]

Hopefully it's learning lots from "the collective" ;0)

 

[SandiaGrunt]

Maybe when they get the data they'll see something they don't like

No criticism from NHTSA so far. It doesn't say Smart Summon is a bad or good idea. It just wants to learn more!

This action by NHTSA is, to my knowledge, unprecedented. I work with NHTSA, and have never heard of them proactively announcing an investigation of an FMVSS-qualified feature mere days after its public release.

My expectation is that this will end with NHTSA amending the FMVSS with specific language to make this feature non-compliant. This will force Tesla to disable the feature fleet-wide.

 

[SSonnentag]

Smart Summon won't be learning anything from my car if it involves me using the feature to produce data.

 

[powertoold]

Smart summon is plain stupid. Risky, unreliable gimmick. Not worth the benefit for most owners.

 

[PACEMD]

This is whataboutism.

It's a classic logical fallacy the belief that whataboutism is a thing.........

 

[alsetym]

To my knowledge, Teslas are the only cars that drive around parking lots with no one in the driver's seat, with no input from a human being except a fat thumb on a smartphone, AND also demonstrably fail to recognize curbs, trash cans, garage walls, grass, reversing vehicles, stop signs, parking space lines, and semi trucks. I want this specific technology banned by regulators.



This is whataboutism. The existence of some bad human drivers does not mean we should permit bad technologies on our roads.



I absolutely can. The accident rate in just the first two days is much too large to be a statistical fluke. This is why NHTSA is already investigating.



Ok chief, but all the evidence is against you.



Robust detection of prone toddlers (and segmentation of toddlers hiding between parked cars) are among the hardest problems in the entire AV space. I know this from first-hand experience.



What if their internal data is not representative of real-world use?

'The accident rate'. What is it? Oh, wait, you don't know.
'The existence of some bad human drivers does not mean we should permit bad technologies' Great, so show me the data showing SS is bad. Oh, wait, you can't.
'All the evidence...' Except the 'evidence' is purely your opinion based off of a couple of youtube videos
'why the NHTSA is already investigating' Um...no they aren't, they acknowledged they are being given data by Tesla.
'Robust detection...and segmentation of toddler hiding between parked cars'. Show me a human that detect a toddler hiding between two cars, ready to pounce at any second. You're really reaching now.

Robust detection of moving objects, including humans, is a solved problem for the entire AV space. The hardest problems in AV space have nothing to do with not hitting people, especially since parking lot speeds are so slow and there is no penalty to simply stopping if unsure (vs on a hwy, if it is unsure it can't just hit the brakes).

I'm not saying Smart Summon couldn't hit a person, at some point it will, but what I have seen is that it is sufficiently cautious that it will be at a much lower rate than human drivers. But I acknowledge that's simply my opinion until we get actual data.

 

[SandiaGrunt]

Robust detection of moving objects, including humans, is a solved problem for the entire AV space.

This statement immediately outs you as a deluded amateur with literally no experience in the AV space. It also thoroughly discredits all of your other opinions and positions. Well done, sir.

 

[PACEMD]

What if we put a special sound over the new Tesla speakers for Smart Summons? Like a piercing air-raid siren......

 

[alsetym]

This action by NHTSA is, to my knowledge, unprecedented. I work with NHTSA, and have never heard of them proactively announcing an investigation of an FMVSS-qualified feature mere days after its public release.

My expectation is that this will end with NHTSA amending the FMVSS with specific language to make this feature non-compliant. This will force Tesla to disable the feature fleet-wide.

Unprecedented? I'm sure Tesla exchanges information with the NHTSA on a very regular basis. And they didn't proactively announce anything. They were asked by a news organization and said they were collecting data. You are trying really hard to find any scrap of information to support your stance but it just simply doesn't exist yet. I'm sure the regulators have put Tesla on a short leash for this since its the first time they are venturing into this territory and they probably agreed to share data on it before it was even released.

They won't amend the FMVSS to make this feature non-compliant, that's crazy talk. If they don't like it they'll just pull the plug. As long as politics doesn't get in the way I doubt they'll step in. They'll be looking at data that shows hundreds of thousands of successes or user aborts and a couple of scratch paints and grass excursions...you don't shut someone down for that.

Have you tried SS?

 

[SandiaGrunt]

You are trying really hard to find any scrap of information to support your stance but it just simply doesn't exist yet.

I mean, there are all these videos demonstrating that Smart Summon can't reliably detect detect curbs, trash cans, garage walls, grass, reversing vehicle, stop signs, parking space lines, or semi trucks.

They won't amend the FMVSS to make this feature non-compliant, that's crazy talk. If they don't like it they'll just pull the plug.

We'll see about that.

hundreds of thousands of successes or user aborts and a couple of scratch paints and grass excursions

The success rate (reported by users) seems to < 10%.

Have you tried SS?

"Have you even driven one, bro?" is among the stupidest arguments ever made by Tesla fans.

 

[DukeofURL]

Because most of this thread is based on one user's posts, I just thought everyone might want to know that if you go back through
@SandiaGrunt's past posts, not one single one of them is anything aside from scathingly negative. Many have been moved to 'snippiness'.

Regardless of their motivation, it's clear they're on this forum just to spread negativity. Don't feed the trolls.

 

[alsetym]

I mean, there are all these videos demonstrating that Smart Summon can't reliably detect detect curbs, trash cans, garage walls, grass, reversing vehicle, stop signs, parking space lines, or semi trucks.

Yet none of them hitting humans, go figure.

We'll see about that.

Be prepared to eat crow.

The success rate (reported by users) seems to < 10%.

NHTSA doesn't care if you let go of the button and abandon the summon. Success and user aborts both end in no property damage or safety concern. The reported by uses success rate based on your internet sleuthing is also irrelevant. I could go so far as to say it discredits completely all of your other opinions. We'll let the adults with the actual data make the decisions thank you very much.

"Have you even driven one, bro?" is among the stupidest arguments ever made by Tesla fans.

I simply wondered if you had actually seen how cautious SS is. Or walked near one resulting in it stopping immediately...

Until a pedestrian gets killed or the data is made public showing this is actually a safety issue this is a storm in a tea cup. You're entitled to your opinions, but your opinions aren't facts.