Summons feature flaw

[Gibson]

Honestly, I do not care whether the story is true or not. Were it not for some of the entertaining posts, I would have ignored this thread immediately due to the hyperbole/sensationalism (whatever you want to call it) that is the title of this thread. Just more click bait as far as I am concerned. Personally, If I had to guess, I would guess that perhaps small portions of the story may be true. But the manner in which it was told, makes all of the events seem just too unbelievable. Pictures notwithstanding. The story seems too contrived to me. Sorry. Not really the point of my post.

Assuming this story did happen as you suggest, I am sure at some point in time you may have been concerned. For the most part you were likely concerned about damage done to your car from it scraping a curb or perhaps being struck by another vehicle as it reportedly rolled across an albeit very narrow, "quiet" residential street before resting (likely quite gently) on the curb on the other side. My best guess is that you were embarrassed by the situation as well. So perhaps your pride was hurt.

All that being said, I am trying to determine where the "fatal flaw" is in the summon feature as you describe in your title. Nothing in the situation you described, at least to me, approached causing a "fatal" injury, no disrespect to your human sized mannequin (are there other options for sizes by the way?) that apparently will not make next years Halloween display at the Wussy household. Your car was not damaged to the point here it needs repair. No living creature, human or otherwise, was physically injured in any capacity during the incident. In fact, I don't see that anyone or any living thing was even close to being injured or had to leap out of the way of your Tesla rocketing down your driveway, recklessly destroying Halloween decorations at a blistering speed of 2MPH (at best). Tests have shown over and over that the summon feature will stop the car before striking a human, at least one not filled with straw. Tests have shown and people have complained that Summon won't get their car over a small garage lip. Where is the fatal flaw? Seriously?

My advice, if you want more people to believe your very first ever post on TMC? Avoid the following words which are all over your post including, "fatal, flaw, horrifying, kill, killed, terrible, crunch, crashed, human sized, beta". Perhaps with a little less of those words, your post may be more believable. Then again, what the heck do I know.

Now for my tangent, and I apologize in advance..

Reading some of these threads, I often wonder why people like Elon Musk even bother bringing a product to the masses. The guy develops what consumer reports once essentially described as the perfect car. One that broke their rating scale it was so good. An EV that can drive nearly 300 miles on a charge, drives like a rocket ship and can even drive itself to some extent. A car that receives updates that are designed to make the car better over time for no extra charge. And what is met with, threads like this. Accusations of killer cars and killer features. Lawsuit after lawsuit. Class action after class action. Sometimes, I wonder if he is just going to wake up one day and turn the lights off at Tesla, Space X, The Boring Company, The Gigafactory, etc... and just say, "screw it". It is just not worth. I sure hope he doesn't. Because while my Model S is not perfect. In my opinion, it is the greatest car, and it is not even close by the way, that I have ever had the privilege to drive and own.

Sorry about the incoherent rambling. Long day.

Be safe. Be civil to each other and for goodness sake, watch out for runaway Teslas on those quiet, residential streets, particularly on Halloween.

 

[Leopold Stotch]

Honestly, I do not care whether the story is true or not. Were it not for some of the entertaining posts, I would have ignored this thread immediately due to the hyperbole/sensationalism (whatever you want to call it) that is the title of this thread. Just more click bait as far as I am concerned. Personally, If I had to guess, I would guess that perhaps small portions of the story may be true. But the manner in which it was told, makes all of the events seem just too unbelievable. Pictures notwithstanding. The story seems too contrived to me. Sorry. Not really the point of my post.

Assuming this story did happen as you suggest, I am sure at some point in time you may have been concerned. For the most part you were likely concerned about damage done to your car from it scraping a curb or perhaps being struck by another vehicle as it reportedly rolled across an albeit very narrow, "quiet" residential street before resting (likely quite gently) on the curb on the other side. My best guess is that you were embarrassed by the situation as well. So perhaps your pride was hurt.

All that being said, I am trying to determine where the "fatal flaw" is in the summon feature as you describe in your title. Nothing in the situation you described, at least to me, approached causing a "fatal" injury, no disrespect to your human sized mannequin (are there other options for sizes by the way?) that apparently will not make next years Halloween display at the Wussy household. Your car was not damaged to the point here it needs repair. No living creature, human or otherwise, was physically injured in any capacity during the incident. In fact, I don't see that anyone or any living thing was even close to being injured or had to leap out of the way of your Tesla rocketing down your driveway, recklessly destroying Halloween decorations at a blistering speed of 2MPH (at best). Tests have shown over and over that the summon feature will stop the car before striking a human, at least one not filled with straw. Tests have shown and people have complained that Summon won't get their car over a small garage lip. Where is the fatal flaw? Seriously?

My advice, if you want more people to believe your very first ever post on TMC? Avoid the following words which are all over your post including, "fatal, flaw, horrifying, kill, killed, terrible, crunch, crashed, human sized, beta". Perhaps with a little less of those words, your post may be more believable. Then again, what the heck do I know.

Now for my tangent, and I apologize in advance..

Reading some of these threads, I often wonder why people like Elon Musk even bother bringing a product to the masses. The guy develops what consumer reports once essentially described as the perfect car. One that broke their rating scale it was so good. An EV that can drive nearly 300 miles on a charge, drives like a rocket ship and can even drive itself to some extent. A car that receives updates that are designed to make the car better over time for no extra charge. And what is met with, threads like this. Accusations of killer cars and killer features. Lawsuit after lawsuit. Class action after class action. Sometimes, I wonder if he is just going to wake up one day and turn the lights off at Tesla, Space X, The Boring Company, The Gigafactory, etc... and just say, "screw it". It is just not worth. I sure hope he doesn't. Because while my Model S is not perfect. In my opinion, it is the greatest car, and it is not even close by the way, that I have ever had the privilege to drive and own.

Sorry about the incoherent rambling. Long day.

Be safe. Be civil to each other and for goodness sake, watch out for runaway Teslas on those quiet, residential streets, particularly on Halloween.

One of the best posts I’ve read yet. Well said.

 

[SDRick]

Another portion of this thread that I found of interest was the excessive consternation for using summons as a "Halloween trick". I believe many of us have used this feature for other than a totally serious purpose. It matters not to the car why the owner initiates summons. Summons should work as intended whether trick or treat without harm or injury to the car or others.

That said, it is still a phenomenal car that does some things that few if any others can match. We all know summons, auto park and auto pilot are not perfect and subject to unintended results. I find it best to trust but verify with a backup plan if something goes wrong while using these enhanced features.

 

[wussy]

I think you'll have to post a photo of the scarecrow you thrashed if you want anyone to believe you.

Alright. Kids in bed now. One last post before I do the same. For those concerned about the safety of the kids scarecrows, they are still as inanimate as ever. One in dark blue now safely seated but a bit worse for the wear from being moved in and out of the street but the other one survived quite nicely by remaining safely seated throughout the holiday.
And apologies again for the over dramatic title and wording of my post although I still maintain that something went wrong other than stupid human error which I was guilty of.

 

[Joe F]

Beside the inflammatory title, one of the things that struck me and raised a red flag in the post was the phrasing “scare people using the Tesla model S”.

What Tesla owner refers to their car as “the Tesla Model S”?

It was just... odd, and probably affected how the rest of the post was viewed.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I still stand by my suggestion of Welcome Courtesy, it would have avoided this problem: Suggestion: Welcome courtesy rule with new members

What IMO is most sad here, is that an important topic went almost totally undiscussed.

What could have caused Summon getting stuck on driving in this instance, how rare or common is it like to be and what could be done to avoid or potentially fix it?

For example, a simple question went (mostly) unasked and unanswered: What were the exact software versions in the car, the phone OS and the phone app?

The shorting accusations as well as the Halloween story became a massive red-herring, while a genuinely interesting and potentially important topic went pretty much undiscussed.

Maybe that could still be remedied. Any thoughts?

 

[croman]

I said I didn't believe him early on and listed the reasons for my doubts. Op addressed those. I think that is appropriate. We can't believe every post. I agree some posts were over the top but welcome to the internet. Op seems to have a good perspective and I don't believe he needs white knights crooning about the few over the top accusations. Let the horse die a peaceful death.

 

[Rahul]

I use summon quite a lot. I didn't think the sensors reliably detect bodies or smaller objects. Early on I was showcasing it to my neighbor and he asked if it would stop if he was in the way. So we tested it. He stood in the way and the car got pretty close (2-3 ft) before he moved out of the way. He's probably ~6' tall, ~170lbs. Since then my assumption was that the car would only stop for large objects like walls or other cars.

If you've disabled continuous press, the OPs scenario is certainly possible but I wouldn't call it a flaw. It's the user's responsibility to determine the path is clear of objects like humans, toys, etc. Heck even now I'm still nervous that it could turn into my wall at any moment. I still use it though because my garage is tight.

 

[Krazaak]

I use summon quite a lot. I didn't think the sensors reliably detect bodies or smaller objects. Early on I was showcasing it to my neighbor and he asked if it would stop if he was in the way. So we tested it. He stood in the way and the car got pretty close (2-3 ft) before he moved out of the way. He's probably ~6' tall, ~170lbs. Since then my assumption was that the car would only stop for large objects like walls or other cars.

If you've disabled continuous press, the OPs scenario is certainly possible but I wouldn't call it a flaw. It's the user's responsibility to determine the path is clear of objects like humans, toys, etc. Heck even now I'm still nervous that it could turn into my wall at any moment. I still use it though because my garage is tight.

I've stepped in front of mine before. If you've told the car to stop 20" from an obstruction, then moving out of the way between 24" and 36" isn't going to give you the result you're looking for.

It's only moving 2 mph or so, any prepared adult should able to properly avoid being run over even if it made contact.

 

[Farzinfar]

If you think "I don't believe OP" should be moderated you are off your rocker. I can state my opinion and the basis for it. That's not jumping to conclusions. You are being unreasonable.

I am not saying it had to be moderated. All I say is that you have made a statement that clearly jumps to conclusion. By the time you wrote that sentence, you have already made your mind that you did not believe it. But that is fine. no issue with it. As I said the issue is how one approaches an issue and how phrase it. I gave you an example of chair. Perhaps that was not a clear example. Please allow me to make the same example in this instance:

1- Wussy, can you please elaborate more with details? Facts given are not enough to understand what happened.

2- I don't believe OP. ........ The story lacks details

3- Show us a picture of your car, we don't think you even have a Tesla! Imaginary Tesla owner!!!

So with all fairness and honesty, which one of the three sentences above you would choose if you had a chance to do it again?

Cheers

 

[AnxietyRanger]

If you've disabled continuous press, the OPs scenario is certainly possible but I wouldn't call it a flaw. It's the user's responsibility to determine the path is clear of objects like humans, toys, etc. Heck even now I'm still nervous that it could turn into my wall at any moment. I still use it though because my garage is tight.

Didn't the OP in this case say he hadn't disabled the feature? It just stopped reacting, but also continued moving? That seems like a scenario where there isn't much you can do, it just keeps going... (In this thread we of course learned pulling a handle should have stopped it, which is valuable advice.)

I'm not sure, a lot was said that made it hard to stick to details such as that.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Hopefully this post just reinforces the fact that you should not use your car as a moving Halloween prop. Case closed.

But that's totally missing the point. This could have happened in any scenario, if this is a real issue.

 

[AnxietyRanger]

HAHA... That is what I meant, editing after reading my message and finding my earlier post!

Ah, you mean editing my latest message? Yes, I edited that one to actually answer you in more detail. My first reply was simply to say I read the whole thread, which felt too short as it didn't address your points.

But yes, I did know the phone had been asked and answered. Also I know the car was AP1, but do we have exact Tesla app version, do we have car firmware version, phone OS version for example?

 

[Farzinfar]

Hopefully this post just reinforces the fact that you should not use your car as a moving Halloween prop. Case closed.

....Unless you push the handle to stop it.... so no worries folks... use it as a toy and scare off people... at the end of the day it is a toy for boys!

Didn't the OP in this case say he hadn't disabled the feature? It just stopped reacting, but also continued moving? That seems like a scenario where there isn't much you can do, it just keeps going... (In this thread we of course learned pulling a handle should have stopped it, which is valuable advice.)

I'm not sure, a lot was said that made it hard to stick to details such as that.

Good to know for next Halloween!

 

[AnxietyRanger]

Good to know for next Halloween!

Why would this issue be only relevant on Halloween? The end-result would have been the same even if the driver would have been standing next to the car.

IMO here are the important questions:

Can Summon stop responding to phone commands? (Answer is probably.)

But more importantly, can the car continue moving even though phone has stopped receiving commands? (It shouldn't, but in this instance it did, right?)

If so, when and why? And what are the remedies? (We know of touching the handle, Tesla found nothing in logs, anything else?)

 

[AnxietyRanger]

The more I read the original post, the less I feel like it deserved any serious attempt at discussion. Unless you're brand new to the internet, you don't come to a forum describing your car driving down the driveway over a pant leg stuffed with grass at 2 mph onto a curb with terms like that unless you're trying to evoke a negative reaction.

I think we can politely agree to disagree there. In my opinion, the OP did us all a service by warning us of a potentially dangerous incident. At the very least we can keep an eye out for it when using Summon, so we can be ready to pull the handle or some such, were it to happen to us.

To me OP did the responsible thing, he contacted Tesla about it, he contacts the authorities who collect data such as this (to see if patterns emerge that require action) and then he informed users on this board. I have a very hard time seeing this sequence of events as trying to evoke negative reaction, I see it as extremely responsible behavior, aimed at helpoing others avoid OPs incident...

If this is a wider issue, it is now better known and can be fixed. If it is not a wider issue, it will blow over.

 

[croman]

To be clear: you cannot pull the handle of a Tesla Model S. You must push the handle in. It will immediately stop (or press the fob or press stop on the phone but phone is unreliable).

 

[AnxietyRanger]

There's different ways to present data.

A. All hell broke lose. Let's get the pitchforks out
B. There might be a problem, anyone else experience this?

The OP already admitted his post was inflammatory, what's the point on continuing to pile on?

As said, we can agree to disagree. I don't see any of what you say in OPs first or subsequent postings. I think he/she has been very open, analytical and critical to his/her own actions as well, and very consistent on what he/she feels is the real issue: the car continued moving after stopping receiving commands from the phone, something that was not caused by e.g. his/her carelessness.

To me it seems like a potentially quite dangerous thing, if Summon just stops taking commands from the phone, yet does not automatically stop. I would assume any Tesla owner would want that explored, lest it happen to them...

 

[AnxietyRanger]

I said "Push" and @AnxietyRanger said "Pull". I am innocent!

Fair enough, I assumed the instruction was to open the door to stop Summon, I stand corrected a mere press suffices. I do know how Model S handles work, but since my Model S was pre-AP I never used it with Summon.

 

[croman]

Fair enough, I assumed the instruction was to open the door to stop Summon, I stand corrected a mere press suffices. I do know how Model S handles work, but since my Model S was pre-AP I never used it with Summon.

Just a firm push will do it. The car stops and the handles retract. What I never understood about summon was why the music plays as if the car cares about that...