Supercharger - Altamonte Springs, FL

[Battmobile]

Knowing how untruthful Tesla reps can be, I’m not convinced this has anything to do with “permitting.” Usually if there’s outstanding issues with a permit, the contractor is to blame not the city. I know, I’m a builder in Orange County, once a permit is issued it is finalized once all is in place, pretty straight forward process. The problems are all worked out EVEN BEFORE the permit is issued. I bet Tesla is delaying this for other reasons which are not permit related.

(UPDATE: Just got off the phone with the building dept. and they confirmed the stations have passed inspection. The ball is on Tesla’s court as I suspected).

It just doesn't make any sense when other Tesla Supercharger construction sites are going smoothly and coming online fast.

In my legal experience, anything someone tells you on the phone is considered hear say. So we can't conclude Tesla is to blame.

Putting them on notice forces them to officially respond so in case someone gets hurt it could be considered gross negligence.

And when I say them it could be city officials or the owners of the property who are trying to renegotiate terms and costs with Tesla.

Until some official letter is presented we simply do not know.

 

[Battmobile]

Thanks for the kind words.

I have been in periodic communication with Tesla on this matter. I continue to impress upon their representative that we are anxiously awaiting some movement on this issue. This afternoon I was informed that they are still awaiting a final permit from the City of Altamonte Springs.

Whereas I am as frustrated as anyone regarding this situation, I respectfully do not share the belief that the absence of a single Supercharger Station constitutes a serious risk to human life and I do not plan to send any certified letters that make that claim.

Larry

I understand and respectfully agree to disagree on risk factors.

Just trying to light the fire under whoever is in charge.

I personally had several close calls in Florida with gas stations losing power and gas trying to leave the state.

Side note: It would be great for Tesla to consider having contingency plans for possible solar battery backups or Semi truck mobile generators to bring power back sooner than waiting for local power utilities to restore power.

Last year if I recall marathon in the keys went down for some time and others too.

 

[gavine]

still awaiting a final permit from the City of Altamonte Springs.

Altamonte Springs already has 4 public charging stations so you would think they would know the permit process by now (Altamonte Mall, Whole Foods, Walgreens and even City Hall has them!

 

[BBryson]

I thought we had a valid explanation from the City of Altamonte, via Larry in post #97.

It seems the Superchargers could technically go active, but having active chargers without the signs may lead to ICE'ing rage.

However, this is speculation on my part, and I am in no way trying to present my opinion as fact.

 

[Graffi]

As I understand the issue here:

Construction completed and Permits signed off.

Supercharger powered up and operating.

A week or so later the city pulls approval and shuts down the Supercharger. The reason is that with these parking spaces dedicated to Tesla car charging there is insufficient parking for this shopping center. Even before Tesla there was insufficient parking, so this location should never have been chosen for a Supercharger.

Is this the correct understanding?

 

[Battmobile]

Ugly red line is where superchargers are.

I've only been there once and it wasn't even 50% capacity. Also noticed a pretty empty garage behind the Ulta. So I can only speak of my one time there and this google satellite view.

The cars that do park in the back where the superchargers are clearly employees who setup the windshield sun-blockers and take the spots all day.

The employees could always park in the back garage behind Ulta in the shade.

Unless they plan on building a new parking garage the supercharger project is in a standstill.

The city should for be on the hook for Tesla financial loss for approving and pulling the permit after construction completed.

 

[andyroyale]

View attachment 320601

Ugly red line is where superchargers are.

I've only been there once and it wasn't even 50% capacity. Also noticed a pretty empty garage behind the Ulta. So I can only speak of my one time there and this google satellite view.

The cars that do park in the back where the superchargers are clearly employees who setup the windshield sun-blockers and take the spots all day.

The employees could always park in the back garage behind Ulta in the shade.

Unless they plan on building a new parking garage the supercharger project is in a standstill.

The city should for be on the hook for Tesla financial loss for approving and pulling the permit after construction completed.

Reas the thread before repeating what has already been discussed.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Knowing how untruthful Tesla reps can be, I’m not convinced this has anything to do with “permitting.” Usually if there’s outstanding issues with a permit, the contractor is to blame not the city. I know, I’m a builder in Orange County, once a permit is issued it is finalized once all is in place, pretty straight forward process. The problems are all worked out EVEN BEFORE the permit is issued. I bet Tesla is delaying this for other reasons which are not permit related.

(UPDATE: Just got off the phone with the building dept. and they confirmed the stations have passed inspection. The ball is on Tesla’s court as I suspected).

Andy,

Let me say at the outset that I have been dealing with Tesla representatives for a long time now and I have not run into a situation where they were untruthful. It is true that they do not release preliminary information, but I have not found they to be untruthful.

With regard to the permitting issues, I have spoken to the Deputy Building Officer and he informs me that whereas it is true that the inspections have been completed, additional building drawings have yet to be approved and the installation has not received the final permit, that is it has not received the Certificate of Completion.

One final point, Tesla is not deliberately delaying this process and your suggestions that they have an ulterior negative motive is both wrong and unhelpful.

Larry

 

[Larry Chanin]

The city should for be on the hook for Tesla financial loss for approving and pulling the permit after construction completed.

The City has not approved the final Certificate of Completion, nor have they approved it and then pulled it. I repeat, this installation does not have final approval yet and additional drawings have yet to be approved.

Larry

 

[Larry Chanin]

As I understand the issue here:

Construction completed and Permits signed off.

Supercharger powered up and operating.

A week or so later the city pulls approval and shuts down the Supercharger. The reason is that with these parking spaces dedicated to Tesla car charging there is insufficient parking for this shopping center. Even before Tesla there was insufficient parking, so this location should never have been chosen for a Supercharger.

Is this the correct understanding?

No, this is not entirely correct. Please refer to my previous postings.

It is true the the station was briefly operating (probably for testing) and then shut down, but a final permit was never issued and the City never pulled the permit.

In addition, there appears to be a permitting issue with the parking. Although I don't have the full story on the parking issue, I share other's confusion and frustration as to how the Supercharger construction could have proceeded to completion without first having a clear mutual understanding between Tesla and the City regarding parking considerations.

Regarding the building permit side of this situation, from talking to the Building Officer it appears that we are merely dealing with getting the proper signatures on documents and that this portion of the problem may only be a few business days away from resolution.

Larry

 

[andyroyale]

Just got off the phone with the city. This is the whole scoop.

Installation is complete and passed all inspections. In order for a Certificate of Completion to be issued, TESLA was told that a final RECORD DRAWING should be provided showing where everything is including parking signage. Tesla provided invalid record drawings stamped by an engineer located in Ohio instead of Florida. These were rejected yesterday by the city and now they’re waiting for new valid drawings.

I suspect this may take at least one or two weeks since now they have to hire an engineer in Florida to stamp them, the drawings then go back to the city and the final approval is done. Parking signs also need to be installed since none are present at this time which may well increase delays.

All this confirms my conclusion ALL ALONG that this has been on TESLA’S court from the start. The city has nothing to do with the delay.

 

[Larry Chanin]

All this confirms my conclusion ALL ALONG that this has been on TESLA’S court from the start. The city has nothing to do with the delay.

Andy,

What I have been saying is that Tesla has not deliberately been delaying this process as your remarks suggest. I never claimed that the City was the cause of the delay.

You obviously have a negative preconception about Tesla that is coloring your point of view.

First, your earlier remarks, that I deleted, erroneously stated that Tesla had run our of cash and that was the reason for the delay.

Then, your followup posting erroneously stated that the final permit had been issued, and you suggested that since the permit was "finalized" that Tesla, "Knowing how untruthful Tesla reps can be", must have been deliberately delaying things due to something unrelated to permits.

The fact remains that the permitting process of getting drawings approved by the appropriate individuals continues and despite your obvious negative mindset about Tesla, there isn't a Tesla conspiracy here in which they have some sort of nefarious plan to deliberately delay this project.

Larry

 

[andyroyale]

Andy,

What I have been saying is that Tesla has not deliberately been delaying this process as your remarks suggest. I never claimed that the City was the cause of the delay.

You obviously have a negative preconception about Tesla that is coloring your point of view.

First, your earlier remarks, that I deleted, erroneously stated that Tesla had run our of cash and that was the reason for the delay.

Then, your followup posting erroneously stated that the final permit had been issued, and you suggested that since the permit was "finalized" that Tesla, "Knowing how untruthful Tesla reps can be", must have been deliberately delaying things due to something unrelated to permits.

The fact remains that the permitting process of getting drawings approved by the appropriate individuals continues and despite your obvious negative mindset about Tesla, there isn't a Tesla conspiracy here in which they have some sort of nefarious plan to deliberately delay this project.

Larry

Larry you obviously have your reasons to defend Tesla at all costs and you use your admin powers in this forum to do so to the detriment of the free exchange of ideas.

In my book, submitting an official permitting document from Ohio in Florida sure looks like a deliberate attempt to delay the process. My earlier post that Tesla is running out of money and asking for help from suppliers is absolutely consistent with not wanting to finalize a supercharging station here and having to spending thousands a month in electric bills. Even if the mistake is not “deliberate” it shows mind-boggling incompetence.

The fact remains that all information passed on so far on this thread to the effect that the city was to blame for “permitting” or “parking” issues and not Tesla are simply erroneous.

 

[Larry Chanin]

Larry you obviously have your reasons to defend Tesla at all costs and you use your admin powers in this forum to do so to the detriment of the free exchange of ideas.

Andy,

So long as you abide by the Forum Rules you are free to discuss Tesla's financial situation, just not in this forum.

I refer you back to my original Moderators Note in posting #156.

This Florida-sub forum is not the place to speculate or joke about Tesla's financial conditions. Please refrain from similar postings here in the future. If you seriously think that Tesla has a financial problem, take such discussions to the appropriate Tesla, Inc. forum.

Personally, I find your claim that Tesla is deliberately delaying the opening of the Altamonte Springs Supercharger Station to improve its cash position as frankly just plain silly. If they were really serious about saving money they wouldn't have built it in the first place. They wouldn't build it and only then start worrying about the electric bill of a single Florida Supercharger Station. Nevertheless, feel free to express that view on the appropriate Tesla, Inc. forum.

Larry

 

[Helmuth]

And they wouldn’t keep building and opening new Supercharger locations every single week... almost 30 opened this month alone!

 

[Cgoral]

Larry you obviously have your reasons to defend Tesla at all costs and you use your admin powers in this forum to do so to the detriment of the free exchange of ideas.

In my book, submitting an official permitting document from Ohio in Florida sure looks like a deliberate attempt to delay the process. My earlier post that Tesla is running out of money and asking for help from suppliers is absolutely consistent with not wanting to finalize a supercharging station here and having to spending thousands a month in electric bills. Even if the mistake is not “deliberate” it shows mind-boggling incompetence.

The fact remains that all information passed on so far on this thread to the effect that the city was to blame for “permitting” or “parking” issues and not Tesla are simply erroneous.

I have had numerous projects working with our state and local governments in Florida. Florida requires that a Florida professional (for example, Florida engineer, surveyor, etc.) "sign and seal" such things as engineering plans or surveys as a matter of practice so that if there is an issue later, the state would be able to reach those individuals from a professional responsibility standpoint. These professionals that are licensed by the state are thereby under the jurisdiction of the state. If the professional is licensed outside of the state, the State of Florida is not able to easily hold those persons responsible or liable. I think that that is the real reason here. I do not think that this has anything to do with the financial health of the company. With that said, however, this should really not be a surprise to Tesla since there are numerous other supercharger sites throughout the state, and they have likely had to have a Florida professional sign/seal before. The bad thing here is that if they have to go out and find a Florida engineer now, they are likely going to have a hard time since no engineer wants to come in after the fact and sign off on a completed project and put their license on the line for something that they were never involved in.

 

[Larry Chanin]

I have had numerous projects working with our state and local governments in Florida. Florida requires that a Florida professional (for example, Florida engineer, surveyor, etc.) "sign and seal" such things as engineering plans or surveys as a matter of practice so that if there is an issue later, the state would be able to reach those individuals from a professional responsibility standpoint. These professionals that are licensed by the state are thereby under the jurisdiction of the state. If the professional is licensed outside of the state, the State of Florida is not able to easily hold those persons responsible or liable. I think that that is the real reason here. I do not think that this has anything to do with the financial health of the company. With that said, however, this should really not be a surprise to Tesla since there are numerous other supercharger sites throughout the state, and they have likely had to have a Florida professional sign/seal before. The bad thing here is that if they have to go out and find a Florida engineer now, they are likely going to have a hard time since no engineer wants to come in after the fact and sign off on a completed project and put their license on the line for something that they were never involved in.

Thanks for the background.
Yes, this location seems to be a departure from the norm.

I also know for a fact that Tesla has had Florida professional engineers sign/seal Supercharger drawings. Below is an excerpt from a Tesla document for Tampa that was in the public domain. Please note the seal.

Larry

 

[Cgoral42]

Looks like Tesla has now updated its Supercharger map showing this charger location as now being open - Finally!! Also, I see that we have a Tesla that checked in this morning with a successful charge.

 

[Theflash95]

Looks like Tesla has now updated its Supercharger map showing this charger location as now being open - Finally!! Also, I see that we have a Tesla that checked in this morning with a successful charge.

I’ll take a swing by there later today and check it out. Yay!

 

[gavine]

Its not listed on PlugShare?