Supercharger - Fort Stockton, Texas

[BerTX]

Graffi - I'll propose it to the RV manager on the 12th if he is there. Will report back here.

I guess I don't see the purpose behind all this trouble. One only needs to stay long enough to get enough of a bump to get to the next Supercharger. Even I would only be there for an hour or so with my lowly 75D with a 48A charger. I'd love to be able to make that a meal stop, and press on. I don't understand the idea of the long-term stay. If you want to stay overnight, then stay at the BW in Pecos.

 

[Graffi]

I agree with you on staying overnight to sleep. For me it would only be a 1 hr or so stop to get the extra miles to make it to the next Supercharger. However, it would be nice to have a warm, or cool, depending on the season, place to relax and eat the food that was purchased prior to this stop. As of now our Tesla is too new and my wife will not allow food to be consumed inside of the car. However, there may be some who do wish to sleep for a few hours or more. This way they have the option of sleeping while getting more charge, or stay there for a couple of hours, then drive over to a motel. Just thinking of these owners.

I guess I don't see the purpose behind all this trouble. One only needs to stay long enough to get enough of a bump to get to the next Supercharger. Even I would only be there for an hour or so with my lowly 75D with a 48A charger. I'd love to be able to make that a meal stop, and press on. I don't understand the idea of the long-term stay. If you want to stay overnight, then stay at the BW in Pecos.

 

[charliepmayer]

Pecos is not too convenient if you are headed south.

 

[BerTX]

I agree with you on staying overnight to sleep. For me it would only be a 1 hr or so stop to get the extra miles to make it to the next Supercharger. However, it would be nice to have a warm, or cool, depending on the season, place to relax and eat the food that was purchased prior to this stop. As of now our Tesla is too new and my wife will not allow food to be consumed inside of the car. However, there may be some who do wish to sleep for a few hours or more. This way they have the option of sleeping while getting more charge, or stay there for a couple of hours, then drive over to a motel. Just thinking of these owners.

It is just opening a whole can of worms. Who's going to pay to clean this trailer? They rent the spot for $38 a day, and this will likely be used once or twice a week. Why would the economics work out for the park?

I'll just wander around outside, thanks. Or maybe a picnic table.

 

[jbcarioca]

Pecos is not too convenient if you are headed south.

Not to mention that Pecos is often inundated with people who do not value teh tranquility many of us do, often not fans of BEV's.

 

[BerTX]

Pecos is not too convenient if you are headed south.

True, but I just proposed that as a solution for someone WANTING to stay overnight where a conventional Destination Charger would work.

 

[charliepmayer]

An old friend once referred to Pecos as "the armpit of Texas".
Sounds like some of you have been there.

IMHO: if I am headed south I much prefer Fort Davis, Marfa, or Alpine to the alternatives.
I just want a "top-up" charge to get me over the mountains to FD or across the desert to Alpine.
I don't think I'll stay in Fort Stockton unless I have to.

And yes, we all know that an SC is what we need much more than a destination charger, but anything faster than a 14-50 is an improvement.

 

[LCR1]

.....

And yes, we all know that an SC is what we need much more than a destination charger, but anything faster than a 14-50 is an improvement.

14-50/HPWC is irrelevant for me with a 40A charger

 

[charliepmayer]

Update on Fort Stockton RV Park: Herb the Manager talked to the owner - ok to put in HPWC at the office, next to the cafe.
Herb has not yet been contacted by Tesla. Herb has no trailers or cabins for rent - not intending to get any, either. He will be in touch.

 

[charliepmayer]

LCR1: why can't you charge from a 14-50? I don't understand.
14-50 uses a 50 amp breaker, but delivers only 40 amps to the Tesla.

 

[LCR1]

So if they install it regardless of paid/ free what would the average idle time be? For those traveling that route already what's the average wh/mi you're seeing? I can get about 330 @80 if I'm following a car on AP1 going to Florida. I've seen some screen shots of people with 400+ along that route of 226 miles.

That means 90.4kwh to get through the 226 miles at 400 wh/mi so a 100d should make it and 72a charging would net 17kwh. So an hour for the dual/high amp guys in a 90+.

For the guy like me in a 70d to get the same buffer I'd have to charge 37kwh or almost 4 hours at 40A

@charliepmayer I can charge form 14-50 just fine, I only have a single charger on my car so I'm limited to 40A. A HPWC pumping out 100A is useless to me as I can only take 40A whether it's from a 14-50 or HPWC

 

[charliepmayer]

LCR1 - ok, I understand. Thank you. Yep, an SC would provide the most utility for all of us.

 

[andystj]

So if they install it regardless of paid/ free what would the average idle time be? For those traveling that route already what's the average wh/mi you're seeing? I can get about 330 @80 if I'm following a car on AP1 going to Florida. I've seen some screen shots of people with 400+ along that route of 226 miles.

That means 90.4kwh to get through the 226 miles at 400 wh/mi so a 100d should make it and 72a charging would net 17kwh. So an hour for the dual/high amp guys in a 90+.

For the guy like me in a 70d to get the same buffer I'd have to charge 37kwh or almost 4 hours at 40A

@charliepmayer I can charge form 14-50 just fine, I only have a single charger on my car so I'm limited to 40A. A HPWC pumping out 100A is useless to me as I can only take 40A whether it's from a 14-50 or HPWC

As an aside, whenever I see a new post to this thread I get a quick feeling of HOPE that there is a new permit or construction, only to be disappointed to see more talk about workarounds. Oh well, I'm now contributing to that phenomena.

A quick word or two about RV Parks and any HPWC installed at an RV park. I got my S back in 2012, so I was a bit of a pioneer on road trips for a while as the initial Dallas-Austin-Houston triangle wasn’t even ready at that time.

Even though RV’s with 50amp hookups use the same NEMA 14-50 standard, they don’t demand the same constant load as a Tesla trying to charge at around 10kW. Moreover RV parks are spread out with LOTS of LONG runs from their transformers to the breaker boxes at the hookup locations. Long runs lead to resistance, heat and voltage drops. Since parks aren’t expecting a constant max-load, and they are running on tight margins, my experience is that they don’t use big enough wire to support that load with that length of run.

At home you typically get 40Amps at 240V which is 9.6kW (40*240=9600). If they are using 3-phase power, the best you can hope for is 40Amps at 208V which is 8.3Kw (40*208=8320). You may get nowhere close to best case. You will start fine, but the breaker may trip after 15 minutes or after an hour. If that happens, you’ll need to wait for the wiring to cool down for a couple of minutes then dial down the amperage. Depending on the voltage drop you might find that you are charging at 20Amps by 200V which is a mere 4kW. It’s not nothing, but it is 10 hours if you need 40kWH to continue your trip.

I have had RV parks that never tripped at 40Amps. I’ve had others do fine at 30Amps and once 18Amps was the magic number. I’ve had had this happen at Texas State Parks, large new facilities and older RV parks. It is definitely a YMMV situation.

I love the flexibility of the NEMA 14-50 standard coupled with Tesla’s onboard chargers and a MWC. However, you have to have flexibility and keep ability to adapt when extending outside of the Supercharging infrastructure. The RV community is super friendly and helpful, but it is not a substitute for someone who is trying to do a “pass through” charge unless you just need a small boost of 5-10 kWh. Even then you may be waiting around for a couple of hours.

My advice is to talk to the RV park and try to get a plug as close as possible to the transformer. Also, use the app to check in frequently and use alerts (assuming you have good cell coverage out in West Texas).


Andy

 

[charliepmayer]

Thank you Andy.

 

[Alphacrux]

An old friend once referred to Pecos as "the armpit of Texas".
Sounds like some of you have been there.

Not only is it an armpit, but due to the glut of oil and gas workers, the hotels are horrendously expensive, if you can even manage to book at room. So be wary when trying to use the destination charger at the Swiss Chalet.

 

[Hojo]

We completed our drive from Austin to Pecos today and it proved quite a learning experience. I am posting here in hopes that you experienced with this trip can explain the events. Austin to Junction to Ozona was uneventful; with the onboard energy management system providing expected and accurate results for our Model S 75D with 20" wheels. From Ozona to Pecos proved really interesting.
We stopped charging in Ozona a few minutes after the car's system advised we had enough energy to complete our trip. We pulled away from the charger with 220 rm for the 160 mile trip to Pecos. The initial soc estimate for arrival of 16%. But before we could even join I-10 one mile later, the soc had dropped to 13%. Then after about 5 miles of 80 mph driving the soc was down to 8%. We slowed to 70 mph and the soc settled at 6%; were it remained until our arrival in Pecos. The 100 miles to Fort Stockton was at a steady 70 mph and the leg from there to Pecos was at a steady 65 mph. We pulled into the Best Western with 14 rm.
I would have thought the system would have learned more from our leg from Junction to Ozona so as to produce a better estimate for the energy needs from Ozona to Pecos. The outside temp was the same at 78 degrees and the A/C setting remained at 68 degrees. There were no appreciable winds to confront. The elevation change is about the same for both legs (Junction to Ozona: up 650'. Ozona to Fort Stockton: up 620'. Fort Stockton to Pecos: down 350').
Nevertheless, the energy management system failed to correctly advise the the rated miles we would need on departing Ozona.
Perhaps you experienced on this trip could offer some insight which would help me in planning. Thanks

 

[nwdiver]

Nevertheless, the energy management system failed to correctly advise the the rated miles we would need on departing Ozona.
Perhaps you experienced on this trip could offer some insight which would help me in planning. Thanks

Was there a head wind? That can have a HUUUGE effect and the nav doesn't take that into account yet...

A ~15mph head wind means a combined wind speed of 85 if you're doing 70... the force of the wind is squared so wind resistance increases ~50%. I had to fight a 30mph head wind in Idaho once... even slowed to 50 I barely made it to the next SC.

 

[TaoJones]

We completed our drive from Austin to Pecos today and it proved quite a learning experience. I am posting here in hopes that you experienced with this trip can explain the events. Austin to Junction to Ozona was uneventful; with the onboard energy management system providing expected and accurate results for our Model S 75D with 20" wheels. From Ozona to Pecos proved really interesting.
We stopped charging in Ozona a few minutes after the car's system advised we had enough energy to complete our trip. We pulled away from the charger with 220 rm for the 160 mile trip to Pecos. The initial soc estimate for arrival of 16%. But before we could even join I-10 one mile later, the soc had dropped to 13%. Then after about 5 miles of 80 mph driving the soc was down to 8%. We slowed to 70 mph and the soc settled at 6%; were it remained until our arrival in Pecos. The 100 miles to Fort Stockton was at a steady 70 mph and the leg from there to Pecos was at a steady 65 mph. We pulled into the Best Western with 14 rm.
I would have thought the system would have learned more from our leg from Junction to Ozona so as to produce a better estimate for the energy needs from Ozona to Pecos. The outside temp was the same at 78 degrees and the A/C setting remained at 68 degrees. There were no appreciable winds to confront. The elevation change is about the same for both legs (Junction to Ozona: up 650'. Ozona to Fort Stockton: up 620'. Fort Stockton to Pecos: down 350').
Nevertheless, the energy management system failed to correctly advise the the rated miles we would need on departing Ozona.
Perhaps you experienced on this trip could offer some insight which would help me in planning. Thanks

Glad you made it despite having to slow down.

As a rule of thumb, whether driving through West Texas, the Badlands heading east through South Dakota, or for example heading east from Green River, Utah, I tend to leave an SC with no less than +20%. That's an expected 20% upon arrival at the next SC. With higher speed and any kind of elevation or wind on top of that, that estimated 20% can easily drop to an actual 5%.

I haven't seen any appreciable improvement in the algorithms during the more challenging legs. They tend to be decent for flat routes although even for those with higher speed limits, I'll charge an extra 10% sometimes past the "You're good to go" message, which tends to appear most of the time between +7%-+13%. The majority of this driving over coming up on 100K miles was/is in an S85 and S90D.

Am curious to see how LR 3 owners fare through some of the more dicey stretches.

One thing that was very helpful the first time through unfamiliar legs was the .csv file downloadable for a given route from EV Trip Planner.

 

[BerTX]

The Nav uses Rated miles for your estimated charge needed if you are stopped at the charger. Once you start driving, it uses Estimated Miles. I think this is a mistake to do this, but I can see where using Estimated for the charge needed might not be accurate, either in many cases. You just need to be aware that this is what it is doing.

Also, you may not have noticed wind where you were stopped, but Darksky says you were driving against a 15 mph WNW wind.

 

[charliepmayer]

Hojo: what you experienced is 100% aligned with my experience. The messages "you have enough energy......" you receive at the SC's are grossly inaccurate. The car does not, can not, or is inept at recognizing the speed, elevation changes, wind, or weather ahead of you. It predicts range on (need help here please) 55 mph, level road, no AC, no wind, 300 Wh/Mi. Any deviation from those parameters will affect your range. I do not think the system "learns" anything. Well, mine doesn't anyway. Maybe it's just me. My '14 P85 uses up to 360 Wh/Mi from Ozona headed west, depending on, well, you know.

Hojo, hope this helps - please keep posting - pretty good source of peer-reviewed info here IMHO.