Superchargers super-slow

[Mike K]

I hate to echo the sentiments of others but I too have experienced the same and the rollout of the Model 3 has me seriously concerned.

Anyone that's done the LA to San Diego trip can attest to how bad things are. I pulled into San Clemente needing maybe 18 miles. It took me 30 minutes to get a stall and it was only that quick because the valet attendant asked someone ahead of me if I could cut since I needed so few miles.

Then we plug it in and it's charging at 38 miles per hour. I sat there for 10 minutes and got nearly no mileage before the paired car took off and I finally got over 100kw.

I want to cut Tesla some slack here because these are good problems to have but they've fallen woefully short of their own supercharger buildout estimates and are about to dump a metric *sugar* ton (a combination of your *sugar* ton and your metric ton) of new cars on the road.

Even on the best of days supercharging on a road trip isn't fun but when I'm with my family and I have to wait an hour to get a charge rate of 30kw, that basically makes the car unusable. Tesla needs to make sure they don't become a victim or their own success.

 

[oktane]

Agreed. Amazing how just a few short months ago people were accusing me of lying about the terrible supercharger speeds I experienced. Let's hope Tesla changes course and fixes this deliberate slowing of charging speeds. I've already given up on using my car for anything but local commute. My time is too valuable (as I'm sure is the case for most Tesla owners).

 

[hill]

We have been using the Phoenix-LA I-10 corridor a lot in the past year. We have seen noticeably slower charging at Quartzite, Indio, Carbazon and Fontana. Have not been to Culver City chargers since last year. We were in Palm Springs when Carbazon was vandalized. Two weeks ago a colleague was stuck in Indio because someone cut the cables off the stands. Is there a listing of "out of service" sites? I know some of the information is available in EVSE and others, but a current list would help- anyone have a link or information?

I remember that . . . . & why aren't there security cameras for all sites?
.

 

[Mark Z]

I remember that . . . . & why aren't there security cameras for all sites?
.

Ideally, Tesla should be using the vehicle cameras during Supercharging to monitor for theft and vandalism of their charging equipment. Even the oldest vehicles could offer the rear camera view to help in the identity of the suspects.

At the least, tamper sensors should notify a security company who can call police and Tesla. As Supercharger revenue increases with recent buyers, armed security could be hired to monitor critical locations 24/7.

 

[David99]

I've already given up on using my car for anything but local commute. My time is too valuable (as I'm sure is the case for most Tesla owners).

I wouldn't go that far. Last week I drove 450 miles three times on three days. Each time I basically charged only 35 min on each of these days. Started with 100%, needed only 15 min half way to top off a little, charged at my destination (which didn't cost me any time as I was there longer than the car needed to charge), and then on the way back again, I only needed 20 min at a Supercharger half way to make it home. All that with the reduced charge rate. But I agree on longer trips it does add significant time.

 

[Mattzilla]

I find going cross country in a Tesla is awesome as long as I avoid going south into California. I-90 last summer from Washington coast to Indiana was beautiful - didn't hardly see any other Teslas and all of the Superchargers worked great. Made the trip faster than I was able to do it in my old ICE somehow.

However, for New Years a few months ago I made the mistake of going south into LA along I-5, then going up 101 through San Francisco and the California/Oregon coast to get back home. Using Superchargers in California, mostly in SoCal, was a complete cluster f*ck. Made me pretty happy to not live there and have to deal with that level of inconvenience each time I want to Supercharge - not sure how you guys do it. The Supercharger nearest me, Seaside, OR, which I hit probably every two weeks, almost never has another Tesla charging at it.

No idea how Tesla is going to solve this issue if Model 3 hits the road in a few short months.

 

[oktane]

Using Superchargers in California, mostly in SoCal, was a complete cluster f*ck.
No idea how Tesla is going to solve this issue if Model 3 hits the road in a few short months.

Model 3 will take some time, but no way Tesla will have enough superchargers built by the time it matters. Permits etc. probably take too much time. Hopefully they will figure out how to increase the charging rate.

 

[busaman]

i found one in london (tower bridge) that was so slow (27kw) i unplugged it an went to the next one 50 miles away after 20 mins of charging as the the car park where its located is £7 per hour after 30 mins...

 

[hill]

I find going cross country in a Tesla is awesome as long as I avoid going south into California. I-90 last summer from Washington coast to Indiana was beautiful - didn't hardly see any other Teslas and all of the Superchargers worked great. Made the trip faster than I was able to do it in my old ICE somehow.

However, for New Years a few months ago I made the mistake of going south into LA along I-5, then going up 101 through San Francisco and the California/Oregon coast to get back home. Using Superchargers in California, mostly in SoCal, was a complete cluster f*ck. Made me pretty happy to not live there and have to deal with that level of inconvenience each time I want to Supercharge - not sure how you guys do it. The Supercharger nearest me, Seaside, OR, which I hit probably every two weeks, almost never has another Tesla charging at it.

No idea how Tesla is going to solve this issue if Model 3 hits the road in a few short months.

Simple ! Tesla's stated goal is to keep all us freebie users outa there. That's one way to do it.

.

 

[oktane]

Simple ! Tesla's stated goal is to keep all us freebie users outa there. That's one way to do it.

That's a highly likely rational explanation. They must fear either the cost of electricity or the degradation fast charging causes on the battery packs and subsequent warranty claims. Last possibility is potential safety risks due to flawed engineering, and they are trying to prevent accidents.

Are there any other plausible explanations?

 

[twonius]

That's a highly likely rational explanation. They must fear either the cost of electricity or the degradation fast charging causes on the battery packs and subsequent warranty claims. Last possibility is potential safety risks due to flawed engineering, and they are trying to prevent accidents.

Are there any other plausible explanations?

"Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity" - Hanlon's Razor

Tesla's a relatively small company for its profile (and market cap), and there are some definite management problems which can manifest in these types of issues (see Model X). My guess is the Supercharger roll-out was 1) over promised 2) fell behind schedule due to resource and management issues.

Also that big new factory in Nevada probably sucks up a lot of capital.

I'm not sure how comprehensive it is, but this site tracks any new supercharger locations:
supercharge.info
Based on this I'd expect 2018 to be a terrible year for supercharging in California, as the initial deliveries of Model3 will be in the Bay Area, and then the rest of California. Look forward to lots of new EV drivers learning the ropes

 

[TexasEV]

That's a highly likely rational explanation. They must fear either the cost of electricity or the degradation fast charging causes on the battery packs and subsequent warranty claims. Last possibility is potential safety risks due to flawed engineering, and they are trying to prevent accidents.

Are there any other plausible explanations?

Yes. Premature wear on components. Your conspiracy theories aren't helpful to a rational conversation.

 

[oktane]

Yes. Premature wear on components. Your conspiracy theories aren't helpful to a rational conversation.

So basically what I said?

Battery degradation = premature wear on components

Not sure where you were reading a conspiracy theory.

 

[David99]

Battery degradation doesn't seem to be an issue. A pretty large survey shows that people that supercharge a lot actually have slightly less battery degradation than those who rarely use them. Also, it is not that everyone is seeing these reduced charge rates. If Tesla was concerned about battery degradation they would reduce the charge rate in general for everyone, not randomly. So I think we can rule this theory out.

 

[cpa]

Oktane, I cannot speak for TexasEV. I inferred from his statement that the "premature wear on components" = the components of the Supercharger hardware, not the storage battery in our automobiles.

I am not sure if we are speaking the same language, Oktane. You made statements that Tesla "fear[ed] the cost of electricity or the degradation . . .and subsequent warranty claims. Last possibility is potential safety risks. . .they are trying to prevent accidents."

You are making assertions that have no basis in fact. These assertions are potentially deleterious to Tesla and its continued success. We inferred from your statements that Tesla is conspiring to conceal the real cause behind these precipitous drops in charging rates.

 

[TexasEV]

Yes I meant the supercharger components, causing something to not function properly. In Oktane's recent post and a previous one (#222) he is saying Tesla is deliberately reducing the supercharger power. I don't think there is any evidence to support such a claim.

 

[Bangor Bob]

So basically what I said?

Battery degradation = premature wear on components

Not sure where you were reading a conspiracy theory.

No, wear of the charging connectors either in the car, or the cable, are far more likely.

 

[David99]

I understand that breaker 'burn out' when the current is near their tripping point. I'm a little surprised that cabled or plugs degrade so quick. Is that really a common thing with high power connectors?

 

[Bangor Bob]

Door #3: They're trying to keep supercharger site power demand charges from becoming too outrageous?

(Commercial sites pay a fee for not only each kWh delivered, but an additional fee for the maximum power draw in kW each month to cover infrastructure and grid costs. These demand charges can be many times the cost of the actual electricity.)

Installing Powerpacks should level out that demand - presumably these will appear once the production ramps up enough that they have some spare manufacturing capacity.

 

[David99]

Door #3: They're trying to keep supercharger site power demand charges from becoming too outrageous?

(Commercial sites pay a fee for not only each kWh delivered, but an additional fee for the maximum power draw in kW each month to cover infrastructure and grid costs. These demand charges can be many times the cost of the actual electricity.).

When I look at my logs, my car starts charging at 116 kW but only keeps it up for 2 minutes, then drops. If Tesla wanted to avoid demand charges, they would have to cap that peak. The demand charges apply even if you draw the peak for a very short time. Also Superchargers stations are pretty busy these days (at least in California). With 7 cars charging, you are going to hit the maximum load one way or another. I saw the reduced rates when there was only 2 other cars. So I doubt the demand charges are the issue for throttling.