Supercharging classic 85, or what's left of it

[David99]

Since you're new here, do keep in mind the OP is on his 8th drive unit: How reliable is your Model S?.

Ok you really have an obsession with this. This is at least that 3rd or 4th post where you jump in and bring in this OT story.

To clarify, this was 3 years ago. My car had 80k miles. Now I have 220k miles and the revision G drive unit I have has been quiet and smooth and running perfect for 140k miles and it looks like it will keep running much longer as it makes absolutely no noises or signs of the early issues.

Yes in the first 2 years since the Model S came out many drive units had issues. Tesla has fixed them all, replaced them for free and they are running fine since. There is really no point bring up this old story into every thread where I mention that I'm happy with my car.

You are regurgitating an old story that has long been fixed for good. You are not being helpful.

 

[cwerdna]

Ok you really have an obsession with this. This is at least that 3rd or 4th post where you jump in and bring in this OT story.

...
There is really no point bring up this old story into every thread where I mention that I'm happy with my car.

You are regurgitating an old story that has long been fixed for good. You are not being helpful.

It is most certainly not OT. The guy below is new to TMC. He almost certainly would not know of your story.

Glad to hear all still is well after 100k and 200k miles!

I also completely disagreed with your assertion that your Model S is "100% reliable" and "It terms or reliability the Model S is as good as it gets IMHO."

It is info for a new person. That's great that you're still happy with it. I probably wouldn't be after the 2nd or 3rd DU replacement. To each his/her own.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

That's interesting. I talked to Tesla bout the slower Supercharging speed and they said it's what happens when the batteries age.

That would seem like something Tesla should disclose to prospective buyers, no? With an ICE, the rate of refilling one's tank does not decline over time and use. The need to supercharge already adds about 20%-30% travel time to long trips, further degradation of charge time will make long trips untenable if rates continue to decline as they have.

 

[scottm]

FWIW lots of early model S got new drive units, like me. And the ones we finally landed on seem to be holding up very well. Otherwise we'd be hearing more about DU replacements.... and frankly, we don't. Let history be. It was part of the early adventures of Tesla trying to make cars.. they finally figured out motors, really well! Now, let's get back to batteries, and charging... the topic of this thread.

Battery longevity and aging characteristics are much more interesting and challenging than motors.

 

[AmpedRealtor]

I've had 4 drive units... count 'em!

 

[apacheguy]

Linking a relevant thread. Looks similar to OPs taper curve except slightly less steep on the low SOC end.

85kWhr Model S reduced Supercharging rate reduction confirmed by TOCWA

 

[David99]

I'm on a long road trip right now. I'm capturing every supercharger stop and once I'm back home, I'll compile the data. But I can already say that I'd be happy to get the charge speed that I posted starting this thread. The charge rate is even lower.

 

[scottm]

I'm on a long road trip right now. I'm capturing every supercharger stop and once I'm back home, I'll compile the data. But I can already say that I'd be happy to get the charge speed that I posted starting this thread. The charge rate is even lower.

Please report your current software version!

My car just gave me "update available" and I'm cringing and hitting "X" cancel every time I drive.


Also what would you say has been the supercharging habits of your car @David99

 

[David99]

Please report your current software version!

My car just gave me "update available" and I'm cringing and hitting "X" cancel every time I drive.


Also what would you say has been the supercharging habits of your car @David99

I have seen the reduction for a long time now. Definitely not a recent software.
I do use supercharging a lot. 60% over the life of my car, 80% more recently.

 

[David99]

Here is an update from a recent road trip. I drove 4300 miles and supercharged aprox 30 times at 20 different locations. I was almost always able to get an unpaired stall. I recorded every charge session with ScanMyTesla. The data is worse than what I posted in the beginning of the thread.

It now takes 55 minutes to charge from 6% to 80%! IOW it takes 55 miles to add 170 miles of rated range. Every charging stop is now aprox 10 minutes longer than it used to be. Not a big deal for trips where you charge once or twice. But on my long trips this adds more than 3 hours.

One of the recent software updates increased the peak charge rate to 130 kW, but then drops down rapidly. BTW, I also tested the new V3 supercharger in Las Vegas. I arrived with 3% and an ideal battery temperature. The charge rate is exactly as on the V2 Superchargers. This confirms that the old case see no advantage whatsoever.

Here is a typical supercharging session now.

Here is a simplified graph showing the original charge rate
when the car was new (blue line),
about 6 months ago (red),
the most recent one (orange).

 

[xveys]

Wow, this is indeed an enourmous drop in speed. Thanks for recording this data!
I am in discussion with my service center as well over this issue, but they aren't acknowledging the issue and have stopped responding since I told them I planned on escalating this.

Do you know how to best escalate this issue, or who to contact?

 

[David99]

Wow, this is indeed an enourmous drop in speed. Thanks for recording this data!
I am in discussion with my service center as well over this issue, but they aren't acknowledging the issue and have stopped responding since I told them I planned on escalating this.

Do you know how to best escalate this issue, or who to contact?

I don't think you will be able to get the issue resolved with the service department. The problem isn't that your or my car has a small defect. All old 85 cars are affected. It's not an issues with the old batteries, it is a decision Tesla's top battery experts made and implemented. They are very much aware that the owners will have to wait much longer at each charger now. They know it's a disadvantage. They would not do it if there wasn't a very important reason for it. No one in the service department will be able to change Tesla's mind on that decision.

 

[henderrj]

All old 85 cars are affected. It's not an issues with the old batteries, it is a decision Tesla's top battery experts made and implemented. They are very much aware that the owners will have to wait much longer at each charger now. They know it's a disadvantage. They would not do it if there wasn't a very important reason for it. No one in the service department will be able to change Tesla's mind on that decision.

I also have an early 85 with 168 K miles. I've noticed the supercharging has slowed quite a bit as well. Don't make too many long road trips now, but it still does seem to make some difference.

I have this idea, even though I love Tesla. I wonder if they're doing this partially to sell new cars? I know, that sounds terrible, and I do love the company, but it would make some sense!

 

[apacheguy]

My 3 literally walks all over my Model S on road trips. Sure, the S has free supercharging for life but if it means I have to stop for >20 minutes longer at each stop I’m happy to pay. My only worry is this same thing will happen to my 3 after several years.

 

[Skipdd]

A

I also have an early 85 with 168 K miles. I've noticed the supercharging has slowed quite a bit as well. Don't make too many long road trips now, but it still does seem to make some difference.

I have this idea, even though I love Tesla. I wonder if they're doing this partially to sell new cars? I know, that sounds terrible, and I do love the company, but it would make some sense!

Am not able to search now for the link but @wk057 posted about this in another thread. He’s done some detailed sleuthing and believes that Tesla was trying to prevent an issue that inadvertently caused many of these symptoms. So, not a marketing reason, but technical. Search on his posts and you will find the thread/post. And you can judge applicability to your situation.

 

[apacheguy]

A

Am not able to search now for the link but @wk057 posted about this in another thread. He’s done some detailed sleuthing and believes that Tesla was trying to prevent an issue that inadvertently caused many of these symptoms. So, not a marketing reason, but technical. Search on his posts and you will find the thread/post. And you can judge applicability to your situation.

@wk057 specifically addressed the issue of capacity degradation (which is what that thread is about). This is about significantly degraded supercharging rates, which is completely different.

Link Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

 

[GHammer]

@wk057 specifically addressed the issue of capacity degradation (which is what that thread is about). This is about significantly degraded supercharging rates, which is completely different.

Link Sudden Loss Of Range With 2019.16.x Software

But isn't it all part of same package of measures put in place by software to mitigate the fire danger seen in Hong Kong. The third that is being reported is cars parked in hot climates not going to sleep and continuously running the battery coolant pump.

First I saw the drop in range with the 19.16 update.
Then the Supercharging drop and reduction of sleep with the 19.20 update.

 

[David99]

But isn't it all part of same package of measures put in place by software to mitigate the fire danger seen in Hong Kong. The third that is being reported is cars parked in hot climates not going to sleep and continuously running the battery coolant pump.

First I saw the drop in range with the 19.16 update.
Then the Supercharging drop and reduction of sleep with the 19.20 update.

I have seen a significant drop in supercharging speed long time before the fires in Hong Kong. The more recent change of dropping even faster was also several months ago. Given that, I don't see any connection to the fires.

 

[GHammer]

I have seen a significant drop in supercharging speed long time before the fires in Hong Kong. The more recent change of dropping even faster was also several months ago. Given that, I don't see any connection to the fires.

Your car may be in a different category of limiting given the high mileage and supercharger use. The 2019.20 version that has reduced the Supercharging speed across the board for relatively low mile 85 pack cars was pushed out third week of June. The Singapore and Hong Kong fires were in April and May, prior to this software release.

 

[cpa]

I tested this behavior earlier today at the Supercharger down the road. (Don't castigate me for local SCing! This was for research purposes! )

I returned from a day trip yesterday with 18%. By this morning, the battery was at 15%. Here in the Central Valley the temperature was over 100 degrees yesterday afternoon with the overnight low (such as it was) at 73.

I reached the SC at 10AM with 13%. One other car was present, and I used an unpaired stall. I received all of 104kW for about 4-5 seconds before the rate dropped as follows:

14% = 87 kW
15% = 82 kW
20% = 77 kW
25% = 75 kW

I did not write down the rate at 50%, but it was around 40kW. It took one hour, give or take, to fill from 13% to 80%.

Two months ago on a road trip, to go from 13% to around 80% took less than 40 minutes in most cases.