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Supercharging letter from Tesla 8-13-2015

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OK here is my take on the problem from an accountancy POV.

Having already used the data points in the SEC filings to take into account how Tesla are treating the future liability incurred through SpC, one thing I found very interesting was they used a deferred income method to represent this rather than a provision for the future cost liability.

It is pretty clear from the two filings where SpC's have been included, the set aside is $500 and drawn down over 20 years.

So what does this mean?

For every car sold (Tesla don't seem to have excluded non SpC'd S60s) $500 goes into a "future pot", and $500 is removed from this years revenue. A portion (1/20th) of this "pot" is drawn down every subsequent year, to recognize Tesla have delivered more of their obligations on the original sale.

In year 1, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr1 * (average selling price - $500 deferral).
In year 2, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr2 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1)
In year 3, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr3 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2)
In year 4, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr4 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3)
In year 5, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr5 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3 + yr4)
In year 6, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr6 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3 + yr4 + yr5)
.....

etc. etc.

This is great. In an ideal world Tesla should be building a base revenue stream, even if they didn't sell a car. (OK a small one relative to vehicles prices themselves, but it's gravy)


However now let's look at the flip side of this on the cost side
Year 1, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr1 * average build cost
Year 2, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr2 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1)
Year 3, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr3 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2)
Year 4, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr4 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3)
Year 5, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr5 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3 + yr4)
Year 6, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr6 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3 + yr4 +yr5)


IOW Every year there is additional cost burden from cars already on the road, however we should be seeing more revenue to cover it, as our deferred income pot keeps getting added to right?

So what happens if average cost supercharging per car is > $25 per year (1/20th $500). Hmm... Houston we have a problem.

As you can hopefully see from the above, unless average usage across the fleet goes down, Tesla are incurring a bigger and bigger head wind on gross margins for every year that passes. So while we may see Tesla have made a great GM on the cars in the early years, it gets harder and harder as time goes by because they have ALREADY overstated the profit. It's really not helped because there is simply no way to bound the potential future costs.

I know this is boring geeky accountancy analysis (and maybe should go somewhere else?) but this is why I _personally_ think Tesla are trying to address the situation, and why I think they have been motivated to send the letter.

(N.B. there is a whole heap of other stuff I've ignored/simplified here, for example I've completely ignored inflation on electricity prices, the fact that a portion of SpC will become due in year of manufacture, etc. etc. I simply trying to illustrate a point that is probably very subtle in layman's terms of what is considered profit)
 
OK here is my take on the problem from an accountancy POV.

Having already used the data points in the SEC filings to take into account how Tesla are treating the future liability incurred through SpC, one thing I found very interesting was they used a deferred income method to represent this rather than a provision for the future cost liability.

It is pretty clear from the two filings where SpC's have been included, the set aside is $500 and drawn down over 20 years.

So what does this mean?

For every car sold (Tesla don't seem to have excluded non SpC'd S60s) $500 goes into a "future pot", and $500 is removed from this years revenue. A portion (1/20th) of this "pot" is drawn down every subsequent year, to recognize Tesla have delivered more of their obligations on the original sale.

In year 1, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr1 * (average selling price - $500 deferral).
In year 2, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr2 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1)
In year 3, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr3 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2)
In year 4, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr4 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3)
In year 5, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr5 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3 + yr4)
In year 6, the revenue is: number of cars sold in yr6 * (average selling price - $500 deferral) + (1/20th * $500) * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3 + yr4 + yr5)
.....

etc. etc.

This is great. In an ideal world Tesla should be building a base revenue stream, even if they didn't sell a car. (OK a small one relative to vehicles prices themselves, but it's gravy)


However now let's look at the flip side of this on the cost side
Year 1, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr1 * average build cost
Year 2, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr2 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1)
Year 3, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr3 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2)
Year 4, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr4 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3)
Year 5, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr5 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3 + yr4)
Year 6, the expenses side is: total cars sold yr6 * average build cost + average cost supercharging per car * (number of cars sold in yr1 + yr2 + yr3 + yr4 +yr5)


IOW Every year there is additional cost burden from cars already on the road, however we should be seeing more revenue to cover it, as our deferred income pot keeps getting added to right?

So what happens if average cost supercharging per car is > $25 per year (1/20th $500). Hmm... Houston we have a problem.

As you can hopefully see from the above, unless average usage across the fleet goes down, Tesla are incurring a bigger and bigger head wind on gross margins for every year that passes. So while we may see Tesla have made a great GM on the cars in the early years, it gets harder and harder as time goes by because they have ALREADY overstated the profit. It's really not helped because there is simply no way to bound the potential future costs.

I know this is boring geeky accountancy analysis (and maybe should go somewhere else?) but this is why I _personally_ think Tesla are trying to address the situation, and why I think they have been motivated to send the letter.

(N.B. there is a whole heap of other stuff I've ignored/simplified here, for example I've completely ignored inflation on electricity prices, the fact that a portion of SpC will become due in year of manufacture, etc. etc. I simply trying to illustrate a point that is probably very subtle in layman's terms of what is considered profit)

Interesting math. Thank you for taking the time.

That would be very different from the Supercharger congestion reason that is offered on TMC most often as their motivation.
 
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This quarter for the first time Tesla has lost more money than they have spent on R&D. In the past Elon said if Tesla didn't spend money on research and development, they would be profitable. That was true for previous quarters. However this quarter they spent $182 million on R&D and they lost $184 million, meaning that even if they didn't spend any money on R&D, they would have made a loss. This is not good. They have to reduce expenses. You can find the profit and loss statement in 5 Aug 2015 shareholder letter here.
 
So what happens if average cost supercharging per car is > $25 per year (1/20th $500). Hmm... Houston we have a problem.
[remainder of quote clipped for the sake of screen real estate]

I like the analysis but...

1. What's the average cost of Supercharging per car, per year? I'm sure there's both ends of the scale, plenty of folks doing cross country road trips and I know plenty of local folks here who've never supercharged. We've used a supercharger 4 times in 3 years of ownership and none of them required a full charge, I'd be surprised if the cost in my example was $25 over those 3 years.
2. Even if the average was 50% higher than the accounting $25 per car the total additional cost is relatively immaterial. Less than one small-medium ad campaign for example.
3. Saying Tesla sent their mail for cost reasons implies that they were being economical with the actualite. If it was for cost reasons they surely would have sent a differently worded mail with a much wider distribution; what they were asking is for local folks to move out of the way to let the long distance traveller in.
 
I like the analysis but...

1. What's the average cost of Supercharging per car, per year? I'm sure there's both ends of the scale, plenty of folks doing cross country road trips and I know plenty of local folks here who've never supercharged. We've used a supercharger 4 times in 3 years of ownership and none of them required a full charge, I'd be surprised if the cost in my example was $25 over those 3 years.
2. Even if the average was 50% higher than the accounting $25 per car the total additional cost is relatively immaterial. Less than one small-medium ad campaign for example.
3. Saying Tesla sent their mail for cost reasons implies that they were being economical with the actualite. If it was for cost reasons they surely would have sent a differently worded mail with a much wider distribution; what they were asking is for local folks to move out of the way to let the long distance traveller in.

Maybe we are at cross purposes Nigel,

This isn't about now. This is about anywhere between 5 and 19 years time. It was sort of the point of the analysis, sorry if I wasn't clear.

Right now your car is doing minimal supercharging and that's great. Unfortunately in it's year 5 when it's in the hands of an Uber driver, it probably won't be.

Interestingly I do know nearly 5% of all UK sales have gone to one Taxi firm, and no doubt all those upgrading from P85 to P85D will leave cars that are likely to be picked up for exactly that sort of duty :(

It sounds like you and I both love our Tesla's, and actually the ABILITY to supercharge is fantastic even if rarely used (my case is different as I'd be in the Sea if I drove the range of my car in one direction!). We are both early adopters too (mine was in the first batch of UK cars) buying more for tech/eco/novelty (delete as appropriate) than cost reasons.

However I'm certainly noticing a change in buying motivation with more and more who people ask online the feasibility to use the car as a long distance business tool, often gobsmacked they'll never have to buy diesel again.

As for Tesla being economical with the truth, I think they have to be. They've nailed their colours to the mast, to admit something wasn't working is a real problem for their shareholders. It's a tricky situation all round. (I get a feeling Tesla are becoming more and more driven by stock price than customers right now, the timing of D now Ludicrous, probably indicative of the X delays if I'm honest. We can only hope after the X comes out things stabilise.)

Yes congestion is an issue in a few key sites (actually ones near airports where the taxi transfers are ironically). I don't think we can simply disregard cost issues either.


My view is Tesla will probably lance this particular boil around the X launch, attempting to bury it under a good news story.
 
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I'm sure there's both ends of the scale, plenty of folks doing cross country road trips and I know plenty of local folks here who've never supercharged.

I can provide data about that. In the survey in my signature (here), we ask Model S owners about frequency of supercharging and 117 people selected the answer you see in this table. This is 117 unique users. To make stats accurate we count only the last entry from each user.

Supercharging frequencymeans times per yearNumber of users who selected this answerSupercharge sessions
A) daily3651365
B) twice a week1049936
C) weekly5214728
D) twice a month2432768
E) monthly1230360
F) a few times a year61378
G) once or twice a year1.557.5
H) never0130
Total
117 users3242.5 sessions

That means 3242.5 / 117= 27.7 sessions per user per year
Assuming each session is from 40 to 180 rated miles. That would be 140 rated miles.
If 265 rated miles equals to 75.9 kWh
Then 140 rated miles equals to X
X= 40.1 kWh
27.7 sessions would be 1111 kWh per user per year
If we assume $0.12/kWh (might be a little optimistic), Supercharging costs Tesla $133 USD per user per year
This is more than 5 times Tesla's reserve.
 
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I like the analysis but...

1. What's the average cost of Supercharging per car, per year? I'm sure there's both ends of the scale, plenty of folks doing cross country road trips and I know plenty of local folks here who've never supercharged. We've used a supercharger 4 times in 3 years of ownership and none of them required a full charge, I'd be surprised if the cost in my example was $25 over those 3 years.
2. Even if the average was 50% higher than the accounting $25 per car the total additional cost is relatively immaterial. Less than one small-medium ad campaign for example.

The Supercharger dashboard shows 500kWh per car per year on average. That would put it at $50 per year minimum on average already - and this is before Supercharging is even available to everyone. (From smac's original post on this again.)

Upping the reserve from $25 to $50 or even $75 per car isn't that big a deal. Let's say an extra $1000 to $1500 per car over 20 years.

However, overstating income in an SEC filing is somewhat frowned upon.

So either Tesla would have to fix the reality to match the filing, or they would have to do a retroactive correction for the filing - which isn't going to make them popular in the press. Or say nothing and hope nobody notices or cares enough to report them to the SEC. It's not like Tesla has any enemies, right?
 
I received this email as well even though I rarely use our local Supercharger, which is 30 minutes away. My family did take several long rode trips this summer from Chicago to Duluth, Philadelphia, Wisconsin, Orlando, and Virginia and had to Supercharge, but I would argue that I used the network as it was intended to be used, not abusive. Furthermore, instead of sending me an insulting email they should have asked for my personal experience about taking long distance road trips with a Tesla since this seems to be one the biggest fears of new buyers. I am very disappointed...
 
I received this email as well even though I rarely use our local Supercharger, which is 30 minutes away. My family did take several long rode trips this summer from Chicago to Duluth, Philadelphia, Wisconsin, Orlando, and Virginia and had to Supercharge, but I would argue that I used the network as it was intended to be used, not abusive. Furthermore, instead of sending me an insulting email they should have asked for my personal experience about taking long distance road trips with a Tesla since this seems to be one the biggest fears of new buyers. I am very disappointed...
If your local supercharger is 30 minutes away, that's not even a local supercharger. You're one of many who received the email by mistake. Don't take it personally. It was just a communications screwup. The letter was aimed at the owner who lives 5 minutes from the supercharger and uses it every few days instead of plugging in at home. Forget it and enjoy your Tesla.
 
Not so with Tesla's email. There is no clearly defined fact. Tesla did not disclose to the recipients their charging habits or durations over whatever time period they deemed appropriate. Since it appears that only a fraction of owners received this email, Tesla could easily have added some wording at the conclusion of this email like, "If you think you have received this notification in error, or you are uncertain as to your Supercharger usage, please call Joe Doe at [this number] to leave a message with your name and Joe Doe will return your call within X hours with a full explanation."

At least give us some ability to understand our alleged transgressions and make an attempt to cure. (Which is what your utility company did by sending out a "final notice.")

I believe the letter clearly defined what the problem was that existed with the recipients. And like me with the final notice, some appear to have received the letter in error. Mistakes happen. It's really not the end of the world or worth all of *this*. There are plenty of ways to contact Tesla even without there being a specific name, number or e-mail attached to the letter, though I concede that means more work on the letter receiver's end. I can think of several reasons why that information wasn't attached...none nefarious.

It seems to me that some are putting a whole lot of effort into finding fault and being offended. Half that effort to examine their Supercharger usage, determine if they fit the criteria or not, and then either let it go because it does not apply to them or stop/reduce Supercharging locally because it does apply to them. If unsure or circumstances such as apartment living require local Supercharging, contact Tesla to discuss. Do that and we wouldn't have this thread full of negativity and ill-will over something that just isn't important in the scheme of things.
 
I received this email as well even though I rarely use our local Supercharger, which is 30 minutes away. My family did take several long rode trips this summer from Chicago to Duluth, Philadelphia, Wisconsin, Orlando, and Virginia and had to Supercharge, but I would argue that I used the network as it was intended to be used, not abusive. Furthermore, instead of sending me an insulting email they should have asked for my personal experience about taking long distance road trips with a Tesla since this seems to be one the biggest fears of new buyers. I am very disappointed...

This was obviously a form e-mail to many people and their criteria sounds like it wasn't well thought out or they sent e-mails to the wrong people. I wouldn't be insulted by the e-mail as you used the network as it was intended.
 
I received this email as well even though I rarely use our local Supercharger, which is 30 minutes away. My family did take several long rode trips this summer from Chicago to Duluth, Philadelphia, Wisconsin, Orlando, and Virginia and had to Supercharge, but I would argue that I used the network as it was intended to be used, not abusive. Furthermore, instead of sending me an insulting email they should have asked for my personal experience about taking long distance road trips with a Tesla since this seems to be one the biggest fears of new buyers. I am very disappointed...

If your local supercharger is 30 minutes away, that's not even a local supercharger. You're one of many who received the email by mistake. Don't take it personally. It was just a communications screwup. The letter was aimed at the owner who lives 5 minutes from the supercharger and uses it every few days instead of plugging in at home. Forget it and enjoy your Tesla.

He lives in Chicago (which has like 4 superchargers ringing the city plus 2 more very close out from that), 30 minutes in what traffic? Specifically his profile says Des Plains. It might only be 10 miles from there to the nearest supercharger. Looking at the map I'd call his local supercharger "local" and could see him hitting several others that might also qualify for some definitions of "local". (see supercharge.info I'm assuming he is going to Highland Park)

In my case I live about 7 miles from a supercharger but it'd take me 15 minutes to get there from home due to lights and traffic assuming it's quiet, much longer if there is any traffic worth talking about. (it's in a shopping development with only two ways in or out and who knows how many hundreds of cars per minute on those routes).

I have no problem with him supercharging at any of the Chicago superchargers. Doesn't affect me directly and as a shareholder I don't even mind the electricity cost. I'm just posting on the concept of "what is local?".
 
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If your local supercharger is 30 minutes away, that's not even a local supercharger. You're one of many who received the email by mistake. Don't take it personally. It was just a communications screwup. The letter was aimed at the owner who lives 5 minutes from the supercharger and uses it every few days instead of plugging in at home. Forget it and enjoy your Tesla.

The bolded part is mere popular conjecture on TMC, not an official statement from Tesla. All we have from Tesla is communications that have increased in the summer to highlight "free for long-distance" (from website text to sales people pitch), Elon's vague comments at the general meeting and now the letter that was sent to a far wider net than was expected here on TMC.

We don't know if Tesla is only targeting those who charge daily or weekly at the local Supercharger, until Tesla offers a clear policy, a retraction or we learn more of the actions they are taking. We can't discount the possibility that Tesla isn't just about reducing congestion, but may actually be looking at lower Supercharging electricity costs, in which case they might target a wider audience than was expected on TMC.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm just posting on the concept of "what is local?".

Indeed, it really shouldn't be hard for Tesla to spell out a clear policy - and not leave it up to others to speculate for them (one way or the other).
 
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The bolded part is mere popular conjecture on TMC, not an official statement from Tesla. All we have from Tesla is communications that have increased in the summer to highlight "free for long-distance" (from website text to sales people pitch), Elon's vague comments at the general meeting and now the letter that was sent to a far wider net than was expected here on TMC.

We don't know if Tesla is only targeting those who charge daily or weekly at the local Supercharger, until Tesla offers a clear policy, a retraction or we learn more of the actions they are taking. We can't discount the possibility that Tesla isn't just about reducing congestion, but may actually be looking at lower Supercharging electricity costs, in which case they might target a wider audience than was expected on TMC.

- - - Updated - - -



Indeed, it really shouldn't be hard for Tesla to spell out a clear policy - and not leave it up to others to speculate for them (one way or the other).

If you could review the other posts in this thread and bold what is conjecture and what is a statement from Tesla too that'd be great. Thanks.