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SuperCharging speed consistency

Discussion in 'Model S: Battery & Charging' started by gowthamn, May 17, 2017.

  1. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

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    Do people consistently get 120kw in super chargers if there are no paired up in US?
    Do they get 70kw if they are paired up?

    I heard that sometimes the speed can be as low as 40 even if they are not paired up?

    I thing I want to know before ai want to buy an EV is charging speed consistency. 120 is slower than gas cars, but wanted to know if its consistent or not?
     
  2. RichardD

    RichardD Supporting Member

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    I have had consistent charging speeds, but remember when your battery gets closer to full, charging slows down.
    0-80% in about 40 minutes and then the last 20% takes another 40 minutes or so. That is using the supercharger network which bypasses your onboard charging systems.
     
  3. gowthamn

    gowthamn Science

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    0 to 80 in 40 mins is good. How much for 20 to 80% for a 90kw battery?
     
  4. BerTX

    BerTX Active Member

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    Smaller battery Teslas only charge at a max of 96 kW, if that is important to you.

    I fear that what you want is an EV that drives and behaves like a gas car. Those who own a Tesla understand that this would be a step down.

    Around town on your daily drive, you won't be charging. You start each day with a full "tank" because you charged overnight.

    On road trips, you drive for about 2 hours and then plug in the car while you take a bio-break and re-hydrate, then drive for another 2 hours.

    You are missing out because you have not had the realization that the Tesla does not need to change -- it's your mindset that needs to change.
     
    • Like x 3
  5. Boatguy

    Boatguy Member

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    No, it's not consistent because it's dependent on SOC when starting, SOC when ending, ambient temp, battery temp, and a few other factors. One rule of thumb is that SOC + kWh charge rate = 120, so if your SOC was 60% you'd see 60kWh charge rate, but that's not a hard and fast rule and I've seen higher charge rates than that would suggest.

    As @BerTX writes, at home it's irrelevant since you charge while sleeping and start every day with a full tank. On road trips there are a variety of variables as well. Will you charge while at a food stop? Is there a charger at your destination? Do you need to stop every 2-3hrs for a bio-break? None of these is "consistent", they vary with each trip. Unless you make the same long distance trip on a regular basis (which some people certainly do), then the variations are caught up in other factors about the trip.

    There is no disputing that it takes longer to charge to 100% than it does to fill a gas tank, but unlike an ICE, you usually don't charge to 100%. You charge enough to get to the next supercharger or destination. Ideally you arrive at about 10% SOC and then charge up to whatever you need to reach the next point and you're on your way. The only time I charge to 100% is at a destination when I'm charging while I sleep.

    On my last 2,000+ road trip from SF to Arizona and back, four days of driving alone, I averaged 59mph over the trip; total miles / total travel time (i.e., including stops for charging, food, bio, etc.). When I drove an ICE it wasn't much different than that. Sure, averaging 65mph would have taken 30min off the day's driving, but there is traffic, road conditions and a bunch of other factors than just charging.

    Driving an EV uses a different strategy than driving an ICE. I've driven an EV for almost three years and two EVs with no ICE at all for over a year. Charging is not yet ubiquitous, but it's also not a huge issue. And once you drive an EV for a couple of months, driving an ICE seems really crude, like using a dial phone after using a smart phone. They both make calls, but the experience is very different.
     
    • Like x 2
    • Informative x 1
  6. Drekar

    Drekar Member

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    #6 Drekar, May 17, 2017
    Last edited: May 17, 2017
    Supercharging rates vary depending on many different factors. I can say that I have NEVER gotten 120kW. Maximum for me has been about 110 kW. When it reaches 100+ it does not stay there long. My experience has been I arrive with about 10% and leave with 90%, it takes about 1 hour to charge. Almost all of the SC experience has been non-paired.
     
  7. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

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    In general the batteries charge at a consistent percentage rate, not kWh/mph rate. The smaller the battery, the lower the kWh average rate, but in theory, all batteries SHOULD charge 10% to 80% in the same time. This is because each cell can only take a certain current when it is at a certain charge level and temperature, and the bigger the battery, the more cells you have.

    You'll find in practice that it's hard to achieve Tesla's advertised 40 minutes from 10% to 80%. My experience has been on average you are likely looking at closer to 50 minutes, although some superchargers are definitely better than others, either consistently or randomly. Pairing does matter, but not as much as you may think, as any vehicle you are pair with is likely tapering. If someone with an empty battery has just plugged in, you want to avoid pairing with them, and always try to find an unpaired charger when possible. If you can check the rate of green flashing on the charge ports of cars you may be paired with, you can get an idea of how much current will be available to you. You'll want to pair with a car with a slowly pulsing green light, meaning it's almost fully charged and drawing less current.

    Another unavoidable variable is the supercharger itself. Sometimes they are just not working well. There has been much discussion on these boards about what variables contribute to poor supercharger performance...there's a nice long thread on the california forum I know about/participated in called something like "California superchargers not providing optimal rates" or something like that.

    In the end, if you are buying an EV, you cannot expect to be refueling anywhere near as fast as an ICE car. However, superchargers are a really valuable and powerful infrastructure system, that will usually be pretty amazing. You must, however, be prepared to be very frustrated at some point in your Tesla ownership, whether it's a long line, rude tesla owners who want to charge to 100% with a long line, superchargers experiencing technical issues, or chronically slow superchargers like Burbank. Things will probably improve in the future but that has been my experience so far. I recently lost my tesla to an accident, and ordered a new one, so these problems obviously didn't deter me.
     
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  8. JasJ

    JasJ Member

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    Bjorn just posted a video on YouTube that gives you a sense of charging speed (old and new battery tech comparison when some of the limits kick in) from low SOC to high SOC.

     
    • Like x 2
  9. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

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    Never thought I'd be bobbing my head to a supercharging video. nice music :)

    Interesting to see how the restricted battery catches up on the back end...
     
    • Like x 1
  10. Lanber

    Lanber Member

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    So there isnt much in it. Like a 3kwh difference over a charging cycle?

    Why did the unrestricted version drop to 22kw at 90%??
     
  11. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

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    It looks liek Bjorn froze that frame at 90%. Hard to say what it would have been consistently as it looks like it was bouncing around at the time he froze the frame.
     
  12. Rocky_H

    Rocky_H Active Member

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    It's sometimes easier to picture the reducing charge rate in a graph. Look at the graph that has the bright green in it about halfway down this page to see how Supercharging runs.
    Supercharger | Tesla
     
  13. jelloslug

    jelloslug Active Member

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    Supercharging speeds have many variables so trying to find consistency will be difficult. I have had 40% differences in the same plug at the same supercharger just from outside temperature (or so I assume).
     
  14. Lasttoy

    Lasttoy Member

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    Last Sunday 8am, 50 miles left, charger rate, 74kw
    Sunday 4pm , 50 miles left, 134kw rate, I thought car would explode, I jumped out
    Tuesday, noon, 34kW rate, 50 miles left
    All at the same super charger
    I called service center, "all is normal"
    I had just driven from Atlanta to DC, then to St Augustine. Never had same charge rate at any super charger,
    It made no difference when, where, time.
     
    • Informative x 2
    • Funny x 1
  15. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

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    You got 134kw? That's a first...
     
  16. JasJ

    JasJ Member

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    Must have the secret new battery pack with 2170 cells... (I'm starting rumors).;)
     
  17. paperjohn

    paperjohn Member

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    Nice clear explanation of the why and how Superchargers work.
     
    • Disagree x 1
  18. Boatguy

    Boatguy Member

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    It would be helpful if Tesla did not shut off the lights when the car locks. They could be smart enough to know you're at an SC and leave the flashing light on so others get a visual indication of SOC.
     
  19. whttiger25

    whttiger25 Member

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    You can push the handle button, which will reset the charging and then you'll see the light (it will go to white as the charging stops, then back to blinking green as the charging restarts). However, I would recommend not doing this unless it's really important, because it resets the charge on the car, and that owner will get a notification on their app that charging has stopped. If that car is paired, it may move from first to second priority in the pairing, which would have a detrimental affect on that car's charge time. I would only do this if you are sure the car is not paired, and it's important to you to find the best pair for your car (i.e. you are short on time).
     
  20. Naonak

    Naonak Member

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    No... You don't want a bright, flashing light drawing attention to your unattended vehicle. You have the app for that - just check if your vehicle is charging in the app. Although, I wouldn't mind the dash display showing a big indicator of what the SOC is, so people can glance in your window... but that wouldn't be visible from far away and draw much attention.

    But ideally, they'd put a screen on the SC to indicate what the SOC is for whatever it plugged in, as well as the power draw (and maybe a happy face when it's OK to plug in @ a paired stall)
     

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